Mr. PAINE. Go ahead.
Mr. LIEBELER. Go ahead.
Mr. PAINE. I was thinking it would be much better to get, if it is
important at all, to, she probably remembers these dates exactly and we
could judge that I would be there. It happened the 24th was a Friday.
If that was the date she got back, then I would know that I arrived the
date they came back.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, did you ever have occasion to go into the garage
toward the end of September after your wife had returned for any
reason?
Mr. PAINE. Yes. As I say that was, I still had a number of things
there, and the tools were there.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you used the tools from time to time?
Mr. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. During the time that you used the tools, did you ever see
a package wrapped in a blanket lying in the garage?
Mr. PAINE. Yes; that is one of the clearest things in my mind. I had
had to move that. The garage is rather crowded especially with their
things in it. It had degenerated from a shop into a storage place and
in order to use the tools at all I would have to move things out of the
way, and one of the packages was this blanket wrapped with a string
and I had had to move it several times. I knew it belonged to the
Oswalds. I am polite so I don't look into a package or even I wouldn't
look into a letter if it were in an envelope which was unsealed. But I
picked up this package and the first time I picked it up I thought it
was a camping equipment and thought to myself they don't make camping
equipment of iron any more, and at another time I think I picked it
up at least twice or three times, and one time I had to put it on the
floor, and there was a--I was a little ashamed because I didn't know
what I was putting on the floor and I was going to get it covered
with sawdust but I again supposed that it was camping equipment that
wouldn't be injured by it being on the floor. I supposed it was camping
equipment because it was wrapped in this greenish rustic blanket and
that was the reason I thought it was a rustic thing.
I had also going a little further thought what kind of camping
equipment has something this way and one going off 45°, a short stub
like that. Then there was also a certain wideness at one end and then I
thought of a folding tool I had in the Army, a folding shovel and I was
trying to think how a folding shovel fit with the rest of this because
that wasn't quite, the folding shovel was too symmetrical. That was as
far as my thinking went on the subject but at one time or another those
various thoughts would occur before I got to using the tools myself.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever think there were tent poles in the package?
Mr. PAINE. Yes; I supposed they were tent poles. I first thought it
was tent poles and then I thought there are not enough poles here,
enough to make a tent. I didn't think very elaborately about it but
just kind of in the back of my mind before I got on to the next thing I
visualized a pipe or possibly two, and with something coming off, that
must come off kind of abruptly a few inches at 45° angle. I can draw
you a picture of the thing as I had it. You know I wasn't thinking of a
rifle. Definitely that thought never occurred to me.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would you draw us a picture for it and I hand you a
yellow pad and let me get you a pen. Would you draw a picture for us of
what you visualized to be in the package?
Mr. PAINE. Also this was--I visualized after I put the package down.
I would lift the package up, move it, put the package down and one
time I was trying to puzzle how you could make camping equipment out
of something--this is only one pipe in the package. That is the only
thing. Then a little shovel which I am speaking is an Army shovel which
looks something like so, and it has a folding handle on it.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you have drawn on this piece of paper two different
pictures, one of which you indicate as the shovel.
Mr. PAINE. I was trying to put these in the package to make something
that I thought was a pipe about 30 inches long. Of course, that actual
package as I visualized it--that is the outline, that is how it lay in
the package.
Mr. LIEBELER. You have drawn a dotted line, outline around his first
picture that you drew which you indicated you thought you conceived of
as an iron pipe of some sort.
Mr. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would you mark this. I hand this to the reporter and ask
him to mark this as Exhibit 1.
(The drawing was marked "Michael Paine Exhibit No. 1".)
Mr. LIEBELER. When you moved this package around, did it appear to you
that there was more than one object inside of it or did it appear to be
a solid piece or just what was your feeling?
Mr. PAINE. I didn't think. It remained in the package--nothing jelled.
I think I thought about it more than once because my thoughts didn't
hold together enough.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did it rattle at all when you moved it?
Mr. PAINE. No; it didn't rattle.