The testimony of Michael R. Paine was taken at 2:30 p.m., on March 17,
1964, at 200 Maryland Avenue NE., Washington, D.C., by Messrs. Wesley
J. Liebeler and Norman Redlich, assistant counsel of the President's
Commission.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. PAINE. I do.
Mr. LIEBELER. We have asked you to come here so we can take your
deposition to find out some of the background information that you have
about Lee Harvey Oswald as a result of your knowing him throughout part
of 1963, up to the time of the assassination.
We particularly want to ask you this afternoon about your knowledge of
the possible possession by Lee Harvey Oswald of the weapon that was
allegedly used to assassinate the President, or of any other weapon at
the time while he had some of his effects stored as we understand it in
your garage in Texas.
I also want to inquire of you this afternoon concerning your knowledge
of Lee Oswald's financial affairs, whether you have lent him any money
or whether he ever, he or his wife ever, obtained any money through you
or your wife, and we will also ask you about other matters relating to
the general subject of the assassination and the subsequent death of
Lee Harvey Oswald.
I want to go first, Mr. Paine, to the period September of 1963, but
before I do that, will you state your name for the record.
Mr. PAINE. Michael Paine.
Mr. LIEBELER. What is your address?
Mr. PAINE. 2515 West Fifth, Irving, Tex.
Mr. LIEBELER. By whom are you employed?
Mr. PAINE. Bell Helicopter.
Mr. LIEBELER. Where are they located?
Mr. PAINE. Fort Worth, Tex.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever make the acquaintance of Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would you tell us briefly the circumstances under which
that occurred?
Mr. PAINE. My wife invited Lee and his wife over to supper one evening.
Mr. LIEBELER. Will you tell us approximately when that was?
Mr. PAINE. I think it was in April.
Mr. LIEBELER. Of 1963?
Mr. PAINE. Yes; I have depended upon my wife for all the dates. She has
kept a calendar.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you discuss with your wife the, after the
assassination the, approximate time when you first met the Oswalds?
Mr. PAINE. Yes, yes, we did. Or at least she had to report that to
other people and I was listening in but I have forgotten the dates.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did your wife meet the Oswalds at the same time?
Mr. PAINE. No; she met them at a party that was held at a friend's
house and we were invited to, both of us were invited to, go meet this
couple who were represented as he having been an American who had
defected to Russia, and came back with a Russian wife. I think I was
sick or something and for some reason I couldn't go so I didn't meet
him at that time.
Mr. LIEBELER. Can you tell us approximately when that was?
Mr. PAINE. It would be much more sensible to get all the exact dates
from my wife but I think that was in February.
Mr. LIEBELER. 1963?
Mr. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, after you first met Oswald, and we will go into the
conversation that you had with him when you met him and after that more
in detail to him before the Commission, when was the next time that you
met him?
Mr. PAINE. I don't think I met him again until he joined Marina at our
house in September or the beginning of October, I guess it was.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would you tell us briefly the circumstances surrounding
the second meeting with Oswald?
Mr. PAINE. Well, Ruth had invited Marina to come and have her baby
early in the summer when she knew that she was pregnant, to come have
her baby, if she wished, at our house, where she would have the help
of another woman who could speak Russian. Ruth stopped by from her
visit on the east coast, stopped on her way back to Texas, stopped in
New Orleans to see them, and found that Lee was out of work again, and
picked up Marina at that time and brought her back to Dallas which was
the end of September, and Marina then and her child stayed there and
had another child, and stayed there until the assassination. And about
a week later Marina was there for about a week before Lee called up,
and I guess Lee came out.
Mr. LIEBELER. Were you there when he came out?
Mr. PAINE. I don't remember. I would come normally, I was not living at
the house at the time, and I would normally appear on, regularly on,
Fridays, and generally some other day in the week, I think it was a
Wednesday, Tuesday or Wednesday, for supper.
So I would have seen him if it was a Friday but I don't happen to
recall the particular occasion. I think perhaps I wasn't there because
I recall Ruth telling me how glad Marina was to see him or hear his
voice on the telephone.
Mr. LIEBELER. You and your wife were separated at that time?
Mr. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Can you tell us approximately when you were first
separated?
Mr. PAINE. Oh, we have been living apart about a year, I suppose.
Mr. LIEBELER. At that time, you mean in October?
Mr. PAINE. It had been a year; yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. So it would have been in October of 1962?
Mr. PAINE. Yes; I guess it was.
Mr. LIEBELER. Were you living in Grand Prairie?
Mr. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. How often would you visit your wife during the
period that you were separated particularly during the period of
September-October?
Mr. PAINE. Well, as I say it was 2 nights a week, 2 evenings a week
was a regular thing, and I would frequently come around weekends. The
garage had been my shop, with my tools that I occasionally used and I
would stop by on weekends, on Sunday anyways, Friday for sure, Sunday
accidentally, and generally, I think, on a Tuesday or Wednesday.
Mr. LIEBELER. When you came to the house did you stay there overnight
or did you just come----
Mr. PAINE. No; I would just stay for supper in the evening.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you were residing entirely, spending your evenings in
your own apartment in Grand Prairie during this period of time?
Mr. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you recall that your wife went on a trip to the
eastern part of the United States in the fall of 1963, summer-fall of
1963?
Mr. PAINE. It was mostly the summer. She went about July and she spent
a couple of months, the end of July, I think.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know approximately when she got back to Irving?
Mr. PAINE. Well, I think she came by around September 24 is the date, I
don't remember whether that was the date she arrived in New Orleans or
the date she arrived at Irving.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, after she did return to Irving, and as you said
brought Marina and the child with her, do you recall whether she also
brought Oswald's personal and household effects?
Mr. PAINE. Yes; I do remember she asked me to unpack or take some of
the heavy things out of the car. I think that was only dufflebags but
whatever it was it was so easy, I didn't really notice what it was to
take out.
Mr. LIEBELER. That was shortly after she returned from her trip?
Mr. PAINE. That would suggest either the same day or the next day.