Mrs. PAINE. Is there; yes.
Mr. JENNER. The reverse of the H page and the face of the I page.
Now, let's take the reverse of the H page first, first side. The two
pages--the left-hand one has Samuel and Liz Hagner, and the opposite
page at the top has Carol Hyde. On those two pages, are there any
entries dealing with the Oswalds or relating to them?
Mrs. PAINE. None; except that it contains an address of several of my
relatives, and these are people to whom I spoke about the Oswalds, and
that has appeared in the testimony. Other than that, no significance.
Mr. JENNER. Next would be--there are some empty pages. We better record
that fact. The reverse side----
Mrs. PAINE. They are not in your exhibit.
Mr. JENNER. As we have gone along, there are some blank pages in your
address book.
Mrs. PAINE. Yes. But they are not in the exhibit.
Mr. JENNER. Those blank pages, except as they are in proximity to pages
that have some entries on them, were not photostated.
Mrs. PAINE. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And do not appear as part of Commission Exhibit 402?
Mrs. PAINE. That is right.
Mr. JENNER. All right. Now, I am now directing your attention in the
picture exhibit to the page on which the letter J appears at the top.
Mrs. PAINE. Yes. There is nothing of significance here in relation to
the Oswalds.
Mr. JENNER. And next is a page in which a letter K appears at the top
of the list of letters.
Mrs. PAINE. Nothing of significance here.
Mr. JENNER. The next is a page in which the top letter is L.
Mrs. PAINE. Nothing here.
Mr. JENNER. And the next, on the right-hand side is a page, the top
letter of which is M. On the opposite page in the photograph there are
entries also. Look at both pages, please.
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mrs. PAINE. There is one significant entry for Dutz and Lillian Murret.
Mr. JENNER. 757 French Street, New Orleans?
Mrs. PAINE. That is right.
Mr. JENNER. Telephone number HU 8-4326.
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Those are the aunt and uncle of the late Oswald?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes. And this was filled in after my second visit to New
Orleans.
Mr. JENNER. How long after? You mean while you were there?
Mrs. PAINE. Probably while I was there. But I know I didn't have their
address or their name correct during the summer.
Mr. JENNER. It was during your visit--your second visit to New Orleans
that you learned fully of their name and address and telephone number,
and you made an entry in your address book?
Mrs. PAINE. That is right.
Mr. JENNER. There is one above that, is there not?
Mrs. PAINE. And I believe this person has been referred to in
testimony--Helen Mamikonian. She was my roommate at Middlebury College,
summer Russian school.
Mr. JENNER. All right. Now, the next is a sheet that is opposite the
sheet, the top letter of which is M.
Mrs. PAINE. This just gives a current address for the same
person--Helen Mamikonian.
Mr. JENNER. Thank you. And the next is a sheet, the top letter of which
is N.
Mrs. PAINE. Nothing significant here.
Mr. JENNER. The next is a sheet, the top letter of which is O. You have
testified fully as to all the entries on that sheet, have you not,
heretofore?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes; I have.
Mr. JENNER. The next is a sheet in which the top letter appearing is
the letter P.
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Are there any entries on that sheet that relate to the
Oswalds?
Mrs. PAINE. The entry for Plattner Clinic, in Grand Prairie, was made
because I inquired of them about the cost of maternity care at their
clinic and hospital, for Marina.
Mr. JENNER. No other entry of significance on that page?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. JENNER. The next is the page opposite that--the top letter of which
is Q.
Mrs. PAINE. No significance here.
Mr. JENNER. The next is the page the top letter of which is R.
Mrs. PAINE. Significant here is an entry for Ed and Dorothy Roberts.
Mr. JENNER. Those are your next door neighbors?
Mrs. PAINE. Those are my next door neighbors, and also Randle, which
refers to Mrs. William Randle. And the one below has been covered in
testimony--that is Frolick and Pen Rainey.
Mr. JENNER. Frolick, I should say to you, Mrs. Paine, is spelled
F-r-o-e-l-i-c-h, although you do not have it so entered. The next page
is the page opposite the page, the top letter of which is S.
Mrs. PAINE. Nothing of significance here.
Mr. JENNER. The next is a page the top letter of which, for some
strange reason is also S. It is the opposite----
Mrs. PAINE. The last one you had was facing.
Mr. JENNER. And this is the reverse side of the S page. All right.
Mrs. PAINE. No significance in relation to the Oswalds. It does list
the name of the school at which I taught Russian, Saint Mark's School.
Mr. JENNER. By the way, would you identify the Strattons?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes; they are very good friends of mine who I have known
from work with the Young Friends Committee of North America. He was
chairman of the East-West Contacts Committee while I was chairman of
the subcommittee on pen pal correspondence.
Mr. JENNER. Nothing else on the S page?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. JENNER. The next is a page on which the top letter appears to be T.
Mrs. PAINE. No significance here.
Mr. JENNER. The next is a page, the right-hand one of which has the top
letter U, and then there are entries not on that page but on the page
to the left of that.
Mrs. PAINE. No significance.
Mr. JENNER. The next is a page on which the top letter appears also as
U.
Mrs. PAINE. Yes; no significance here.
Mr. JENNER. But the first name on which refers to Dick Uviller.
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. The next is a page the top letter of which appears to be V.
Mrs. PAINE. No significance here.
Mr. JENNER. The next is a page the top letter of which appears to be W.
Mrs. PAINE. No significance here.
Mr. JENNER. The next is a page the top letter of which is Y.
Mrs. PAINE. No significance in relation to the Oswalds, except as
testified. I did talk to Mrs. Young.
Mr. JENNER. Yes. Those are entries dealing with your in-laws, the
Youngs?
Mrs. PAINE. That is right.
Mr. JENNER. And there are three entries.
Mrs. PAINE. No. The first one has no relation whatsoever to my
relatives.
Mr. JENNER. That is a different Young entirely?
Mrs. PAINE. That is.
Mr. JENNER. But the next two, Arthur M. Young, and Charles
Morris--those are your in-laws?
Mrs. PAINE. And Arthur Young's father, Charles Morris Young.
Mr. JENNER. Charles Morris Young is Arthur M. Young's father?
Mrs. PAINE. Father.
Mr. JENNER. And Arthur M. Young is the stepfather of your husband,
Michael Ralph Paine?
Mrs. PAINE. That is right.
Mr. JENNER. And Charles Morris Young is the stepgrandfather of your
husband, is that correct?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes; that is correct.
Mr. JENNER. All right. Mrs. Paine, would you please give us your
reactions to and your concept of Marina Oswald as a person, your
reflections on her personality generally, and her character and
integrity, her philosophy? What kind of a person was she?
Mrs. PAINE. I enjoyed knowing her. She was a great deal of company to
me in my home. She liked to help me with the language problems I had.
She was very good at explaining a word I didn't understand in other
Russian words that would then make clear to me the meaning of the word
I didn't understand.
She is, as I have already testified, a hard worker. She liked to help
around the house. She had some doubts about her ability in cooking,
unfounded doubts, I felt. She wanted to learn from me about cooking. I
did most of the meal preparation. But she would occasionally prepare
meals, and she taught me some things. I think she is a mixture, as are
many people, of confidence and lack of confidence.
She knows, I am certain, that she is an intelligent and able person.
But, on the other hand, as I have testified, she was hesitant to learn
to pronounce--to practice pronouncing English words and didn't consider
that she had much ability in English. She did say to me in the fall--I
think it was after Mr. Hosty's visit that she observed of herself
that unlike the time when she had first come to this country and did
not even attempt to listen to English conversation, she had picked up
enough so that it was worth her while to try to listen, and then she
could pick up some words and some meaning. I may have already testified
to this.
I think she is a person who prized her personal privacy. She did--I
should say we confided to one another about our respective marriages,
as I have already testified. There was some intimacy of confidence, of
this kind of confidence, I should say. But I felt that she prized and
guarded her own personal privacy.
She was in some ways--she talked with some enthusiasm and detail to
me about her time in Minsk, when she was dating and the good times
that she had had there, living at that time with her aunt and uncle in
Minsk--how she enjoyed herself, and something of the social life she
enjoyed.
She spoke of spending time with hairdos and clothes, what to wear, and
when she looked back on it, girlish pastimes that she had no time for
now as a young mother.
Mr. JENNER. Did she ever say anything to you--you brought something
out about Russia--about any hopes or desires or thoughts about America
while she was in Russia?
Mrs. PAINE. She did say once that she had dreamed of coming to America.
I think she meant dreamed while sleeping.
Mr. JENNER. I beg your pardon?
Mrs. PAINE. I think she meant dreamed while sleeping.
Mr. JENNER. Did she indicate anything beyond that--that is, that
she had a dream--did she indicate any hope or desire or affinity,
willingness to come to America?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes; that this was also a hope on her part.
Mr. JENNER. Did she indicate this was a hope prior to the time she had
married Lee Oswald?
Mrs. PAINE. It wasn't clear to me when this hope arose.
Mr. JENNER. Did she indicate it was a hope or desire on her part wholly
divorced from Lee Oswald?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Now, you were telling me about your impressions of Marina's
personality, her character, her integrity.
Mrs. PAINE. We spoke once, to my recollection, about our respective
beliefs in God. She told me that she observed, looking at the nations
of the world, and their religious books, like the Bible, the Koran,
that people all over the world for centuries believed in God, had this
faith, and she felt that such an idea could not arise so many places
as it were spontaneously and live on so many places unless there were
something to it.
Mr. JENNER. Did she say anything about the philosophy in Russia toward
religion as negative or positive?
Mrs. PAINE. This was implied. I can't give you a specific reference,
except that she did say her grandmother was a very religious person.
Mr. JENNER. By the way, did she have her children baptized in this
country?
Mrs. PAINE. One of the first things I knew--and this was told to me
in March of 1963--one of the first times I went to see her at their
apartment, on Neely Street, she showed me a baptismal certificate for
June, and was pleased with how nice it looked, its attractive form.
I have since read in the paper that she had this baptismal ceremony
without Lee's knowledge and consent. She made no reference to me at
that time of that sort, and nothing to indicate that I shouldn't
tell anyone I pleased, Lee included, that there was such a baptismal
certificate, or refer to it freely.
Mr. JENNER. In her discussions of her life in Russia, did there arise
occasions when she discussed communism or the Communist Party or people
who were interested in communism or the Communist Party in Russia?
Mrs. PAINE. She referred rather disparagingly to some of the young
Communist youth group people. She felt they were rather dull and
attended meetings and heard the same thing over and over, said much
the same thing. She also spoke disparagingly of the content of this
paper which I said she told me was from Minsk, and always containing
many columns of speech by Khrushchev, speech by Khrushchev, speech
by comrade chairman of the presidium, whatever Khrushchev was. And
she found this very dull. Very repetitious. She, herself, expressed
interest in the movies and theater activities in the town. She always
turned to this portion----
Mr. JENNER. Legitimate theater?