Mr. LIEBELER. That is just----

Mr. RAY. He might have been smarter than we thought or smarter than the

people that knew him thought; I don't know.

Mr. LIEBELER. That is just your own thought on it?

Mr. RAY. That is my own thoughts on it, see.

Mr. DAVIS. Have you all--I might inject here--have you all gone over

the point--did you ever discuss with your wife or the Mellers or any of

these other people that it was strange about them being able to come

out of Russia so easily? It was strange about him being able to move

about in Russia so easily? Was it with all of them the consensus that

it was unusual; were they somewhat amazed?

Mr. RAY. I don't know whether they were or not but I was amazed and

my wife was, too, that he went over there and left this country

and denounced his citizenship and then a couple of years later or

longer--how long was he over there? Anyway, they let him----

Mr. DAVIS. Going on 3 years.

Mr. RAY. Come back and bring his wife with him. That looked kind of

ridiculous to me.

Mr. LIEBELER. And that question was discussed in your meeting in the

Meller's house and subsequently discussed between you and your wife,

wasn't it?

Mr. RAY. Yes.

Mr. DAVIS. Let me ask you this: This group at the Ford's place where

the Russian-born would tend to get together occasionally, has there

been very frequent--I mean, have you and your wife gone--I believe this

was the first time?

Mr. RAY. This was the first time we ever.

Mr. DAVIS. Did they mention about this having happened fairly

frequently before? Do you know how often they had been meeting in

Dallas?

Mr. RAY. It seems like now they kind of get together, you know,

somewhere around New Year's--Christmas or New Year's; something like an

annual affair for them to get together.

Mr. DAVIS. Did you know--were there any others in this group or did

you have any occasion to hear from any others that had a similar story

like the Oswalds where they had found it that easy to go and come or go

out of Russia?

Mr. RAY. No, no; see, most of these people are, the way I get it, were

Russian descent or else they were like--they had married a Russian over

there or something of that nature, you see. I mean it wasn't everybody

there wasn't Russian but there was some Russian connection with most of

them.

Mr. LIEBELER. But you heard of no other examples where people had come

out of Russia as easily as Oswald had; is that correct?

Mr. RAY. No.

Mr. LIEBELER. You know or did you hear of it?

Mr. RAY. I did not hear.

Mr. DAVIS. Has your wife or you or have you all heard of anyone since

the time he came out where it has been easier for people to come and

go? I believe your wife mentioned she thought it would be easier to

contact her niece if conditions were easing up to that degree. Has this

proved to be?

Mr. RAY. I don't know; 2 or 3 years ago she tried to call her niece on

the telephone and tried 2 or 3 days and finally made the connection and

the niece said, "Hello," and the line was out like that and she finally

gave up.

Mr. DAVIS. In other words, to your knowledge you have seen no evidence

it has been made easier to communicate back and forth?

Mr. RAY. No; fact of the business, my wife's mother had been dead a

couple years before we even knew it.

Mr. DAVIS. How long has this been you received that information?

Mr. RAY. I think she died in 1953; I know it was a couple years gone by

when my wife found out about it.

Mr. LIEBELER. Was your wife's mother living in Stalingrad when she

died, do you know?

Mr. RAY. I don't know. She was, I believe, in Arzamas; I am not sure

that's where she died but that's near Stalingrad, some place near

Stalingrad and that's where at least part of my wife's upbringing, you

know, took place, in Arzamas.

Mr. LIEBELER. Do you think now that you have told us about all you know

or all you remember about your contact with Oswald and the discussion

that you had about him? If there is anything you want to add at this

point, go right ahead.

Mr. RAY. I think we pretty well covered it. I hope you have.

Mr. LIEBELER. We want to thank you very much, Mr. Ray, for coming down

here and I think you have been helpful and I appreciate it very much.

Mr. RAY. Well, like I said before, I went to the FBI voluntarily with

what information that I had. Frankly, I didn't know anything about the

guy except what I have told you but I did have the names and addresses

of some of these people that knew him and that's why I went to the FBI,

because of that. They might contact these people and find out more

about it.

Mr. LIEBELER. I think they have talked to most of them.

Mr. RAY. I am sure they have.

Mr. LIEBELER. Thank you very much.

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