_Question_. Do you agree with the views of Pope Leo XIII. as
expressed in _The Herald_ of last week?
_Answer_. I am not personally acquainted with Leo XIII., but I
have not the slightest idea that he loves Americans or their country.
I regard him as an enemy of intellectual liberty. He tells us that
where the church is free it will increase, and I say to him that
where others are free it will not. The Catholic Church has increased
in this country by immigration and in no other way. Possibly the
Pope is willing to use his power for the good of the whole people,
Protestants and Catholics, and to increase their prosperity and
happiness, because by this he means that he will use his power to
make Catholics out of Protestants.
It is impossible for the Catholic Church to be in favor of mental
freedom. That church represents absolute authority. Its members
have no right to reason--no right to ask questions--they are called
upon simply to believe and to pay their subscriptions.
_Question_. Do you agree with the Pope when he says that the result
of efforts which have been made to throw aside Christianity and
live without it can be seen in the present condition of society--
discontent, disorder, hatred and profound unhappiness?
_Answer_. Undoubtedly the people of Europe who wish to be free
are discontented. Undoubtedly these efforts to have something like
justice done will bring disorder. Those in power will hate those
who are endeavoring to drive them from their thrones. If the people
now, as formerly, would bear all burdens cheerfully placed upon
their shoulders by church and state--that is to say, if they were
so enslaved mentally that they would not even have sense enough to
complain, then there would be what the Pope might call "peace and
happiness"--that is to say, the peace of ignorance, and the happiness
of those who are expecting pay in another world for their agonies
endured in this.
Of course, the revolutionaries of Europe are not satisfied with
the Catholic religion; neither are they satisfied with the Protestant.
Both of these religions rest upon authority. Both discourage
reason. Both say "Let him that hath ears to hear, hear," but
neither say let him that hath brains to think, think.
Christianity has been thoroughly tried, and it is a failure. Nearly
every church has upheld slavery, not only of the body, but of the
mind. When Christian missionaries invade what they call a heathen
country, they are followed in a little while by merchants and
traders, and in a few days afterward by the army. The first real
work is to kill the heathen or steal their lands, or else reduce
them to something like slavery.
I have no confidence in the reformation of this world by churches.
Churches for the most part exist, not for this world, but for
another. They are founded upon the supernatural, and they say:
"Take no thought for the morrow; put your trust in your Heavenly
Father and he will take care of you." On the other hand, science
says: "You must take care of yourself, live for the world in which
you happen to be--if there is another, live for that when you get
there."
_Question_. What do you think of the plan to better the condition
of the workingmen, by committees headed by bishops of the Catholic
Church, in discussing their duties?
_Answer_. If the bishops wish to discuss with anybody about duties
they had better discuss with the employers, instead of the employed.
This discussion had better take place between the clergy and the
capitalist. There is no need of discussing this question with the
poor wretches who cannot earn more than enough to keep their souls
in their bodies. If the Catholic Church has so much power, and if
it represents God on earth, let it turn its attention to softening
the hearts of capitalists, and no longer waste its time in preaching
patience to the poor slaves who are now bearing the burdens of the
world.
_Question_. Do you agree with the Pope that: "Sound rules of life
must be founded on religion"?
_Answer_. I do not. Sound rules of life must be founded on the
experience of mankind. In other words, we must live for this world.
Why should men throw away hundreds and thousands of millions of
dollars in building cathedrals and churches, and paying the salaries
of bishops and priests, and cardinals and popes, and get no possible
return for all this money except a few guesses about another world
--those guesses being stated as facts--when every pope and priest
and bishop knows that no one knows the slightest thing on the
subject. Superstition is the greatest burden borne by the industry
of the world.
The nations of Europe to-day all pretend to be Christian, yet
millions of men are drilled and armed for the purpose of killing
other Christians. Each Christian nation is fortified to prevent
other Christians from devastating their fields. There is already
a debt of about twenty-five thousand millions of dollars which has
been incurred by Christian nations, because each one is afraid of
every other, and yet all say: "It is our duty to love our enemies."
This world, in my judgment, is to be reformed through intelligence
--through development of the mind--not by credulity, but by
investigation; not by faith in the supernatural, but by faith in
the natural. The church has passed the zenith of her power. The
clergy must stand aside. Scientists must take their places.
_Question_. Do you agree with the Pope in attacking the present
governments of Europe and the memories of Mazzini and Saffi?
_Answer_. I do not. I think Mazzini was of more use to Italy than
all the popes that ever occupied the chair of St. Peter--which, by
the way, was not his chair. I have a thousand times more regard
for Mazzini, for Garibaldi, for Cavour, than I have for any gentleman
who pretends to be the representative of God.
There is another objection I have to the Pope, and that is that he
was so scandalized when a monument was reared in Rome to the memory
of Giordano Bruno. Bruno was murdered about two hundred and sixty
years ago by the Catholic Church, and such has been the development
of the human brain and heart that on the very spot where he was
murdered a monument rises to his memory.
But the vicar of God has remained stationary, and he regards this
mark of honor to one of the greatest and noblest of the human race
as an act of blasphemy. The poor old man acts as if America had
never been discovered--as if the world were still flat--and as if
the stars had been made out of little pieces left over from the
creation of the world and stuck in the sky simply to beautify the
night.
But, after all, I do not blame this Pope. He is the victim of his
surroundings. He was never married. His heart was never softened
by wife or children. He was born that way, and, to tell you the
truth, he has my sincere sympathy. Let him talk about America and
stay in Italy.
--_The Herald_, New York, April 22, 1890.