merchant
15,383. How much did you get then?-I can scarcely remember.
I knitted at one time for Mr. Gilbert Harrison, and I always got
money from him when I asked it, whether it was a large sum or a
small sum. The firm is now Harrison & Sons, but it was before
young Mr. Harrison's time that I got that money. I don't think they
deal in hosiery now; at least I have not dealt with them for a long
time.
15,384. Have you dealt with any other merchant and got money in
such large sums as that?-I once had a transaction with Mr. Wm.
Johnston, and I asked in money and £1 in goods, and I got it.
15,385. There was a letter sent to me in which it was stated that
you could tell me a story about a certain merchant in town: do you
know anything about that letter?-No. I was wondering who had
mentioned my name to you.
15,386. [Shown letter dated 9th January 1872, and signed W.
Linklater.] Do you know that handwriting?-I do not, but I know
what it refers to. It was merely a private thing that I was telling to
another party about having taken some hosiery to a merchant.
15,387. Do you know the party who writes the letter?-I don't
think I do.
15,388. What does the letter refer to?-I bought some stockings
from a merchant in Lerwick, and I was selling some shawls to him,
but he did not like to take hosiery in return for his stockings. He
said he would take one half money and one half shawls, and I went
home, and I think it was either 20s. or 30s. that I got from my
husband to pay one half of the price.
15,389. What quantity of hosiery had you bought?-I think it was
rather more than £2 worth.
15,390. Was that for your own family?-No. It was for a
party who had sent to me for some hosiery, and I went to that
merchant's shop for it.
15,391. Do you sometimes deal in hosiery yourself?-I sometimes
send work south, but I oftener sell it here. It is a long time since
that affair happened; and I think the price came to nearly £3, but I
don't remember the amount.
15,392. How long ago was it?-Perhaps 12 years ago, or perhaps
not so much.
15,393. Was it the practice at that time, as it is now, to pay for
hosiery in goods?-Yes.
15,394. But when you bought hosiery, was it understood you were
to pay for it in cash?-There was no understanding about it. I just
went to the shop for the stockings, and the merchant agreed to take
one half of the payment in hosiery and the other half in cash,
which I paid to him. I asked his reason for doing that, and he said
that by taking the hosiery it was turning his goods twice over for
only one profit.
15,395. Was that the only transaction you ever had with that
merchant?-I had plenty of transactions with him before, but
not many after.
15,396. Do you sometimes buy a great quantity of wool?-Yes;
but it is very difficult to get the best wool.
15,397. Where do you buy it?-Sometimes from country
merchants, generally from Fetlar. I get some worsted from
William Tulloch, Fetlar. I generally pay 4d. a cut for it. The
finest is 6d. a cut; that is the kind which is used in making fine
shawls and fine cloaks in Shetland.
15,398. You don't buy it in wool yourself, but in worsted?-Yes.
There are some of the people in Lerwick who buy it in fine wool,
and send it to the country to be spun, before they can get it really
fine.
15,399. Are they not able to buy the finest worsted in the shops in
Lerwick?-I never could do so.
Lerwick, January 30, 1872, GEORGE JAMIESON, examined.
15,400. Have you a farm at North Roe, on the estate of Busta?-
Yes. I have only had one crop there.
15,401. Have you been a fisherman?-Yes, all my life.
15,402. Whom did you fish for?-I have fished for different
people in my time. When I was on Messrs. Hay's property I fished
for them; but they suspended me from fishing, and I would not go
again. They wanted to put me into a boat with some old men. I
would not agree to that, and I lost my fishing for four years.
15,403. Were you at liberty to fish for whom you pleased?-I was
not. They stopped other fish-curers from taking me during these
four years.
15,404. How did they do that?-I offered to go for different men,
and they would not take me for fear of Mr. Greig, Messrs. Hay's
factor at North Roe.
15,405. Are the tenants on the Gossaburgh estate bound to fish for
Messrs. Hay & Co.?-Yes. I was bound to do so all the time I was
there. One year I agreed with Mr. Anderson, Hillswick, to go to
the fishing for him, and I came with my share of fishing lines, but
he would not give his men a share of lines to make up the fishing
with; and he gave us an old boat that we would not risk our lives
in, and he would not give us any meal.
15,406. Are you also employed in keeping paupers?-Yes, I
have two old women-one from the parish of Lerwick, and
one from the parish of Northmaven. I have £8 for the one from
Northmaven. I only had 13s. for five months for the pauper who
belonged to Lerwick, but now they have given me 1s. 6d. a week,
which comes to £3, 18s. a year.
15,407. Who pays you these sums?-Mr. Greig.
15,408. Does he pay you for both the paupers?-Yes.
15,409. Does he keep the post office?-No; but they put the
money into his hands, and most of it has been taken out in truck.
He refuses to give me any money except a mere trifle.
15,410. Whom did you make your bargain about these paupers
with?-One was with Mr. Johnston of Lerwick, and the other
was with Mr. Bruce at Urrafirth.
15,411. Do you not receive post-office orders or money from Mr.
Bruce or Mr. Johnston for the maintenance of these paupers?-It
comes to Mr. Greig; I cannot say how it comes.
15,412. Have you ever asked that the money should be sent to you
direct?-No.
15,413. Is Mr. Greig a member of the parochial board of
Northmaven parish?-I believe he is.
[Page 390]
15,414. But he is not a member of the Lerwick parochial board?-
No.
15,415. How does he happen to pay you money for Lerwick
parish?-They send it to him.
15,416. Have you ever asked him for the whole of that money in
cash?-No.
15,417. Why?-Because he seemed that he would not pay it in
cash.
15,418. How did he seem so?-He said he would not do so, and
that there was no use of him taking the trouble if I would not take
the greater part of it out in truck.
15,419. When did he say that to you?-He has said it to me
several times. He said it some time after I got the first pauper,
who belonged to Northmaven. That is about two years back.
15,420. Did he say it to you when you went for the first
payment?-Yes.
15,421. Had you not run up an account at his shop before the
money was due?-I had not.
15,422. Did you owe him anything then?-I owed him nothing.
He was my landmaster then, but I did not owe him anything.
15,423. Is that money paid quarterly?-It is paid monthly here.
15,424. Did you ever ask Mr. Greig for a monthly payment in
cash?-I did not.
15,425. Why?-I cannot tell. I suppose it was because we always
had his shop to go to for things that we required for the paupers,
and we thought we need not ask for cash.
15,426. Were you not always due him as much as the monthly
payment before it became due?-I was not.
15,427. Were you not due him something?-Yes, a small thing,
but not the whole of the money.
15,428. Did you ever ask him for the balance in money?-Yes.
15,429. Did you get it?-Yes.
15,430. Then, when was it that Mr. Greig said he could not give
it to you in money, but that you must take it out in truck?-Just
when they sent the paupers to me.
15,431. Are you sure there was not something due to Mr. Greig
then for supplies to the paupers?-There was nothing due.
15,432. Had you not got any supplies from him for these women
before the first payment was due?-Yes, I got what I wanted
whenever I asked it.
15,433. Then there was something due to him for that?-Yes; he
never refused to give me anything for them as soon as I came for
it.
15,434. There was something due to him for these supplies at the
time when the first monthly payment became due?-Yes, but not
to the whole amount of it.
15,435. Why did you say that you were not due him anything?-I
had to take out the things because I could not get the money.
15,436. Did you ask him for the balance?-I did.
15,437. How much was there due to you at that time?-I cannot
tell, because we don't keep accounts.
15,438. Have you no pass-book?-No.
15,439. Did Mr. Greig actually say to you that you must take your
payment in truck?-He said we must take part of it in truck, and
that he would not pay it all in money.
15,440. Did he use the word truck?-Yes.
15,441. Did he not say that you were to take part of it in goods?-
Goods were the same as truck, and he meant that we were to take
meal or tea, or anything, out of his shop.
15,442. But what did he actually say?-He said we must take
goods out of his shop for part of the money, because he could not
pay it all in money. He said that the first time I went to him.
15,443. When did he say it again?-He said it very often.
15,444. When did he say it last?-This winter.
15,445. Where did he say it?-In his shop at North Roe.
15,446. Were you asking for money at that time?-Yes. I asked
him then for the 13s. which came for the pauper from Lerwick,
and he said he would give me that, but that he need not have the
trouble of paying it all down in money.
15,447. Had you not got a lot of supplies at that time?-No.
15,448. Do you swear that, when you asked him for the 13s., you
were owing him nothing for supplies?-I was owing him nothing.
15,449. Had you got any supplies from him before that?-I had got
nothing from him for the pauper from Lerwick.
15,450. But had you got supplies for your own household?-I had;
but I was due him nothing.
15,451. Had all the supplies that you had got from Mr. Greig for
other parties up to that time been paid for?-They were all paid
for when I asked for the 13s.
15,452. Had you any account due at the-shop at that time?-I
cannot tell. I don't think it. There could be nothing due.
15,453. You said just now that all the supplies you had ever got
were paid for at that time?-They were paid for.
15,454. And then you say in the next sentence that you cannot say
whether they were paid for or not?-I asked for nothing for this
woman until the came.
15,455. Do you keep a separate account for every woman that you
have?-I believe we do.
15,456. Do you know anything about your accounts?-I don't
know a great deal about them.
15,457. Are you sure that Mr. Greig has told you that you must
take part of your payment for the paupers in goods?-Yes.
15,458. Is not all that he has done merely to keep part of the
money that was already due to him for supplies which you had
got?-He said he would not pay it all in money. That is all I
have got to say about it.
15,459. Did he not say that he would not give it all to you in
money because you were due him something for supplies you
had already got?-I was never due Mr. Greig anything.
15,460. Had you not got supplies from him before he said that?-I
had got supplies, but they never ran up to the sum which I had to
get payment of from him. There was always money due to me.
15,461. Were you ever due Mr. Greig anything at all?-I was not.
15,462. Did you not owe him money for the supplies you had
got?-We never sought supplies that would run up to the sum
which we had to get. There was always something in his hand.
15,463. Do you understand what it is to be due a man money?-
Yes.
15,464. Do you understand that you are due a man money when
you have got goods from him and not paid for them?-I know that.
15,465. Were you not due Mr. Greig money when you had got
these goods and had not paid for them?-I was.
15,466. Was it not at the time when you were due him money for
these supplies that he said he could not give you the money which
was due for the paupers?-He said, first of all, that we were not to
ask all money when we were due him for goods.
15,467. Is there anything else you wish to say?-Nothing.
15,468. You have given your evidence in such a manner, that I
cannot allow you any expenses for attending here.
Lerwick, January 30, 1872, ROBERT IRVINE, examined.
15,469. Are you a broker in Lerwick?-I am a general dealer. I
deal in new as well as second-hand goods.
[Page 391]
15,470. Do you deal in provisions?-Very little; mostly in soft
goods.
15,471. Do you make many purchases of soft goods and wearing
apparel over your counter?-Of wearing apparel, but not of
hosiery.
15,472. Do you sometimes purchase articles which are not made
up, such as cotton?-Yes, and new articles too. If a man buys an
article that does not fit him, and he comes back to me with it, I
will take it from him and sell him another, or give him the cash.
15,473. Is this [showing] the book in which you enter all your
transactions?-Yes.
15,474. Are women in the practice of selling goods to you which
they have got in the shops?-There is very little of that done. I
cannot say that I ever recollect a case of it.
15,475. Have you many transactions with women?-Very few. It
is mostly men's apparel that I get.
15,476. I see that in your book most of the entries are in the names
of men?-Yes; I always deal with men, except on rare occasions.
15,477. Are you the only broker of this kind in Lerwick?-I think I
am the principal one; I have a licence as a broker.
15,478. Can you say that you have not had any transactions with
women who might have been knitters, and who were disposing of
goods which they had got for their hosiery?-I cannot tell exactly.
Sometimes they may have come in with goods which they had got
in that way, but it is very little of that kind of thing that comes my
way.
15,479. Have you had many dealings with women whom you knew
to be knitters?-Very few. I don't know that I recollect a single
case. As I have said, it is generally men's work that I get.
15,480. Do you enter every transaction which you have in the book
which you have produced?-Every one.
15,481. Is it not possible that some purchases of that kind from
women are not entered in it?-No; I do not want to omit them,
because I want to punish them if they are rogues.
15,482. But these women will be perfectly honest in making such
sales?-Yes, but I don't think there has ever been such a case in
my business.
15,483. Have you ever bought any lines from women?-I never
saw one offered; and even if it had been offered, I would not have
bought it or meddled with it at all.
15,484. Do you know anything at all about the lines?-I don't
recollect ever seeing one in my life because I am not in the way
of it.
15,485. Have you heard of them?-I have heard of them
repeatedly.
15,486. I suppose the trade of a broker is not a very flourishing one
in Lerwick?-No, it is very dull; but I am a dealer also, and can
make up things otherwise, which helps me through.
15,487. Do you know whether that business of buying second-hand
articles is practised by any people who act as hawkers and who
hawk through the country?-I don't know of any people who do
that.
Lerwick, January 30, 1872, FRANCIS GIFFORD, examined.
15,488. Are you a seaman, living in Bressay?-I am.
15,489. Have you gone on sealing and whaling voyages for a good
many years?-Yes, I went there during the first years of my time,
and then I went south; but afterwards I have been at the sealing
and whaling again.
15,490. Have you always engaged with some agent in Lerwick?-
Yes, I have engaged with them all except Mr. Tulloch; I never
went out from him.
15,491. Have you always received payment of your wages on your
return from the voyage?-Yes, for the last three or four years I
have always got my money at the Custom House.
15,492. Before the regulations were introduced according to which
you were paid at the Custom House, did you settle with the agent
at his shop?-Yes.
15,493. Did you always get your money on these occasions?-Not
exactly.
15,494. Had you an account then for outfit and supplies?-Yes.
15,495. Did you always get the balance that was due?-Yes, I got
it, but very little money.
15,496. Was that because you had a large account?-I don't know.
15,497. Do you remember some years ago being engaged by Mr.
Joseph Leask on a voyage to what is called the west-ice?-Yes.
15,498. Is that in Davis Straits?-No, it is to the northward.
15,499. Do you remember applying for your wages in money in
that year?-Yes.
15,500. Did you get it at once whenever you asked for it?-Yes.
15,501. Did you sail in the same vessel again that year?-Yes; but
Mr. Leask was not for me going in her again, because I had got my
money. If it had not been for the captain I would not have got with
the vessel, but he said he would have me. The vessel was the
'Camperdown,' and that occurred in 1866.
15,502. What was Mr. Leask's reason for not engaging you for that
vessel?-I don't know.
15,503. You said it was because you got your money?-I believe
Mr. Leask thought I was for the double voyage, but I was only for
the single voyage; and when I came home after the first voyage I
got settled with him, because at that time I was intending to go
south. I came over and got my money, but before the end of the
week the vessel returned again, going to Davis Straits, and I went
up to see if I could get a chance to go in her. When Captain Bruce
told me to go and get my things and come with the vessel again,
Mr. Leask was wild, and said I should not get a chance.
15,504. Had you intended at first not to go on the second voyage
that year?-I was anxious to go but I did not know that the Captain
was to put me down for the double voyage.
15,505. Why was Mr. Leask wild?-I don't know; I suppose it was
because he thought I was only for the single voyage, and I came
over and got my money.
15,506. Would he not have given you your money if he had known
you were going the other voyage?-I believe he would not.
15,507. How did you happen to ask for your money at that time?
Is it not usual to ask for it after the first voyage?-When the men
go for a single voyage, which lasts for about six weeks, they are
cleared off when they go home; but when they go for the double
voyage they cannot get their money until the end of the season.
Mr. Leask thought I was shipped for the double voyage and that I
would come over and draw the whole of my money at one time;
but of course I did not know myself that I was for the double
voyage until the captain came again and put me down for it.
15,508. Do men never draw their money at the end of the first
voyage except when they are done with the ship for that season?-
They do it now. As soon as their six weeks are over and they
come back again, they draw their money; but they did not do that
before.
15,509. Was it always the practice before to make only one
settlement for the long voyage?-Yes.
15,510. Have you always got your money since 1866?-Yes.
15,511. Have you also incurred an account at the same time with
the agent who engaged you?-Yes.
15,512. How is it settled?-It was settled at the end of the season.
15,513. Was it read over to you before you went up to the Custom
House to get payment of your money?-Yes.
15,514. Was the balance written out in the books before you went
up?-Yes.
[Page 392]
15,515. You went up and got your money from the Custom House
from the agent or his clerk, and then you came down to the shop
and paid your account?-Yes.
15,516. When you went to the shop in the first place, were you
always told to come back and pay your account?-Yes.
15,517. Who tells you to do that?-The agent.
15,518. Have you always had your account clear at the end of the
season, or have you sometimes been in debt to the shop?-I have
always been clear.
15,519. Do you know that young hands are sometimes in debt to
the shop at the end of the season?-Yes.
15,520. Has there sometimes been a difficulty in getting berths in
the sealing and whaling vessels, in consequence of more men
applying than were wanted?-Yes.
15,521. What kind of men are preferred in such circumstances;
is it the best quality of men?-There are generally all sorts of
hands-green hands, and able seamen, and ordinary seamen of all
kinds.
15,522. When a man is in debt to an agent, do you think he has
any better chance of getting a berth?-My partners think so. They
think that if a man is in debt the agent will perhaps try to get him
into a vessel, in order that he may be able to clear off his debt.
15,523. Do you know that they have done that?-Yes, I have seen
it.
15,524. What have you seen?-I have seen agents getting men
who were in their debt put into their ships.
15,525. Have you heard the captains complaining of the agents
putting inferior men upon them for that reason?-I have. Captain
Bruce of the 'Camperdown,' complained about that in 1866. He
said to the men that Mr. Leask was putting hands into the ship that
he did not like, and that he would have liked better hands.
15,526. Did he state the reason why he supposed Mr. Leask was
doing that?-He did not tell us about the reason.
15,527. Then how did you know that that was the reason why Mr.
Leask had put in inferior hands?-I knew they were men who were
in debt to him.
15,528. Did you know that from the men themselves?-Yes, I
knew it from several men; but I don't remember their names-
they were men on board the 'Camperdown' that year along with
me.
15,529. Did they tell you that their being in debt had given them a
better chance of a berth?-Yes; and that when they were in debt
they got a ship.
15,530. Was that a general understanding among them?-Yes.
15,531. Did you know of any better men who wished to go in that
ship, but who were refused because they were not in debt?-No;
but I know that if men are debt to the agent they will get a ship
sooner than those who are clear with him.
15,532. But you have always got a ship although you were not in
debt?-Yes.
15,533. Are you an able seaman?-Yes, I am a boat-steerer.
15,534. Do harpooneers and boat-steerers get a higher wage, and
are they more sure of getting a berth than ordinary seamen?-Yes,
they get higher wages, and are more in demand.
15,535. On the occasion you spoke of, when you went in the
'Camperdown' with Captain Bruce, it was to the captain that
you owed your engagement, and not to the agent?-Yes.
15,536. If the agent had had his own way, would you have been
engaged?-I would not.
15,537. Had you an account with the agent at that time?-No, I
had some more money to get from him.
15,538. Had he not paid you up the whole of the money that
was due to you on the sealing voyage?-No; there was a second
payment of oil-money which I had to get.
15,539. Is it quite understood among the whalers, that when their
money is paid to them at the Custom House they have to go down
to the shops and pay it to the agents?-Yes; they quite understand
that they have to clear the agent's books.
15,540. I suppose a man would not think of letting his account
stand any longer?-No.
15,541. What would be the consequence if he did that?-I cannot
say.
15,542. Would he get a berth next year?-He might get a berth
next year, but it is best to have the books cleared.
15,543. But suppose a man had other accounts due, would he have
to go and pay the agent first, and let his other accounts wait?-I
don't know about that.
15,544. Does not a man go and pay the agent first, whether he has
other people wanting his money or not?-As a rule, they go and
pay the agent first.
15,545. Have you heard any of the men complain that they had to
pay the agents in preference to other accounts which they wished
to settle?-No.
Lerwick, January 30, 1872, PETER HALCROW, examined.
15,546. Are you a seaman?-Yes.
15,547. Have you gone on sealing and whaling voyages for some
years back?-Yes, for nine years.
15,548. What agents in Lerwick have you been engaged by?-The
whole of them.
15,549. Did you always get your outfit from the agent you engaged
with?-Yes, the most part of it.
15,550. And you settled your account with him at the end of the
year?-Yes.
15,551. Had you always a balance to receive in money?-
Generally. Once I had not; that was in my second year.
15,552. Have you always got any money that was due to you paid
in cash?-No.
15,553. When did you not?-The first year I was out.
15,554. Was there something due to you that year?-Yes,
15,555. Did you ask for it to be paid to you?-Yes, at different
times; but I did not get it. I was told that the agent had not got it
himself, and that therefore I could not get it.
15,556. When did you return that year?-On 1st October.
15,557. How long was it after that before you got your money
paid?-I never got it paid at all. I had to take goods for it out of
Mr. Leask's shop.
15,558. Were you told to take goods?-No, he did not tell me to
take them; but I had to take them when I could not get the money.
I was in need of them.
15,559. Did you want the goods?-Yes, I was requiring things, and
I got them there.
15,560. Did he say that you had better take goods, as the money
had not come?-No, he did not say that. He only said it was not
come every time I came and asked for it, and as I could not wait
longer I just took the things I had to get.
15,561. How long was it after you returned before you began to
take the goods?-About a month or five weeks.
15,562. How often had you asked for the money within that
time?-Three or four times.
15,563. Were you offered the goods?-No, I was never offered
them until I asked for them.
15,564. Did you say anything about not getting your money to the
agent or any of his people?-No, I did not say anything.
15,565. Are you sure there was £4 due to you at that time?-
There was £4, 10s. due when we left home from the owners, and
30s. from the Shipwrecked Mariners' Fund, because we were
shipwrecked.
15,566. Then there was no oil-money that year?-None.
15,567. Did you not get the payment from the Shipwrecked
Mariners' Fund in cash?-No.
15,568. Did you apply for it in cash?-Yes; I applied at the shop
for it, and I got a very little cash, perhaps about £1 at one time and
another-not all at once.
[Page 393]
15,569. Have you ever taken part of your earnings in goods since
then?-Yes, I have done so almost every year that I have been out.
15,570. But that was just in the account which you opened when
you went away?-Yes.
15,571. Did your people get any advances when you were absent
from the agent with whom you shipped?-Yes; a little.
15,572. And they get any supplies anywhere else?-They generally
got them from the agent.
15,573. Why was that?-I don't know; they just got them there.
15,574. Do you not get a month's advance when you leave?-We
get a month's advance now. We don't get the money before we
leave, but we get a ticket to be paid three days after the ship sails.
We generally give it to the agent, and get a little money on it, but
not to the full amount of the advance.
15,575. Do you not leave that ticket at home?-Some of the men
leave them at home, and the value of them is got afterwards.
15,576. Why do you not do that?-Because I may want the money
before I go away, and I get a part of it from the agent.
15,577. In that case you have to leave your ticket with the
agent?-Yes, we have to give it up to him.
15,578. Do you not get allotment tickets when you leave?-I don't
know them.
15,579. Can you not get half-pay tickets if you want them?-Yes.
15,580. Is it not the practice to get them?-Sometimes they get
them if they ask for them.
15,581. Do you take them?-No.
15,582. Why?-I don't know. We generally just get what we
want in money or in goods, as we ask for it.
15,583. Do the agents give these half-pay tickets whenever they
are asked for?-Yes.
15,584. Would they prefer you not to take them, but to take goods
instead?-I don't know about that. I have not been told so.
15,585. Did you hear the evidence of Francis Gifford?-Yes.
15,586. Do you think what he said was generally correct?-I think
so.
15,587. Was he correct in what he said about a man who was in
debt to the agent getting a berth more readily than another?-Yes.
15,588. Have you known that in your own experience?-I got a
ship when I was in debt in my second year.
15,589. Do you think you got it more easily because you were in
debt?-I cannot say for that.
15,590. Have you heard men speaking about getting a ship more
easily when they were in debt?-I have heard them talking about
it, but still I don't know about it myself except on that one
occasion.
15,591. Have you known any case like that which Francis Gifford
mentioned, of inferior men being put on board a ship because they
were in the agent's debt, in preference to better men?-I never
knew of that, but still it may have happened. I wish to say that in
1866 I shipped in the 'Diana' of Hull, for the west ice in Davis
Straits, and when we were out I was beset in her for thirteen
months, and for seven months we were on short allowance. We
have never been paid for that short allowance, although the men
in Hull were paid for it.
15,592. Have you applied for that?-There is a man here who has
applied for it. I think he applied to Mr. Charles Duncan, writer,
and also to the sheriff.
15,593. Who was the agent from whom you thought you should
have got it?-Mr. Leask.
15,594. Did you apply to him for the difference which you ought
to have got in consequence of being put upon short allowance?-
Yes; and he told us it was no use applying for it, because he did
not think we would get it. I never asked Mr. Leask about that
myself, but other men in Lerwick have done it.
15,595. Did they mention to him that the Hull men had got the
difference paid to them?-Yes.
15,596. Did Mr. Leask offer to do anything for you in that case?-
Not as far as I know; but I was away from home at the time when
the men applied for it.
15,597. Do you think that has anything to do with your dealings
at Mr. Leask's shop?-I don't think so, but I suppose Mr. Leask
could have applied for it if he had liked.
15,598. Had you an account with him that year which you settled
as usual at the end of the season?-Yes.
15,599. Did you not apply for the difference on the short
allowance when you were settling that account?-Yes. They
told me then that they did not know but what they might get it
for us, but still they did not say that we would get it, and it has
not come yet.
Lerwick, January 30, 1872, WILLIAM LAURENSON, examined.
15,600. Are you a seaman living in Bressay?-Yes. I have been at
the sealing and whaling for thirty-six years. I have got settled, and
got my wages paid to me at the Custom House for some years
back, but that was not done when I first went.
15,601. Before you were paid at the Custom House, did you not
get payment of your wages?-I got no satisfaction of them. I very
often did not see an account. I would come over from Bressay two
or three different times wanting to get settled, but they would
shove me off time after time, giving me perhaps 10s. or £1; but
they would not settle with me.
15,602. Were you owing an account for supplies at that time?-
I got supplies from the shop when I went on the voyage, but I
always had balances of money to get. I never was in debt.
15,603. By what agents were you treated in that way?-They are
long dead now.
15,604. Did that not continue till 1867, when the new regulations
came into force, according to which you were paid at the Custom
House?-Yes; the system continued much the same until then.
15,605. Were you put off in the same way from time to time down
till 1867?-Yes; perhaps getting £1 or 10s. now and again.
15,606. What agents were you engaged by, five or six years ago?-
I was engaged by Mr. Tait, and I was three years for Mr. Tulloch;
but I was paid at the Custom House then.
15,607. Were you often engaged by Mr. Tait before 1867?-I
would be engaged by him perhaps two years at a time, and then I
would leave him and go to another, and then go back to him again.
15,608. Who else did you engage with?-I went out a long time
for Messrs. Hay, and I was with Mr. Leask too.
15,609. When you went, until five years ago, to get a settlement of
your account, were you always put off with £1 or 10s., or some
supplies, if you wanted them?-I was put off now and again.
15,610. Did all the agents who employed you treat you in the same
way?-Almost every one.
15,611. Did you not get a settlement with Messrs. Hay when you
asked for it?-Yes; I got a fair settlement with Messrs. Hay when I
went out from their shop.
15,612. Were you ever put off in the way you have mentioned
when you were engaged by them?-No; and I was engaged by
them for ten years.
15,613. When you went to Mr. Tait, did he settle with you when
you asked for it, even before the new system?-Yes.
15,614. Did he ever put you off in that way?-No. I was out of his
shop when his father was alive, and he settled with me in the same
way.
15,615. Had you ever to ask him twice for your money?-No.
15,616. Did you get a settlement whenever you went there for
it?-Yes.
15,617. Did you always get your money in full when you went
over to ask for it from Mr. Leask?-I got what was due to me; but
I generally had some things out of the shop before I went, and then
I got the balance.
[Page 394]
15,618. Could you always get it at once without any difficulty?-
Yes; I just asked for it and I got it.
15,619. Then who were the agents who put you off in the way you
mentioned?-They are all dead long ago.
15,620. I thought you said the system of putting you off in that
way, and of giving you £1 or 10s. at a time, continued till about
five or six years ago?-Sometimes it did, and sometimes not.
Some years I never got a fair account, and in other years I did.
15,621. But you always got a fair account from Messrs. Hay?-
Yes.
15,622. And from Mr. Leask?-Yes.
15,623. And from Mr. Tait and Mr. Tulloch?-Yes.
15,624. What agents were there besides these, five or six years
ago?-It is far longer than five or six years since I was put off in
that way, and did not get the settlement when I wanted it.
15,625. Will it be ten years since you asked for your money and
did not get it?-It will be ten years, or above that.
15,626. Will it be fifteen or twenty years ago?-It will be from
fifteen to twenty years.
15,627. Are you a harpooneer or a boat-steerer?-I am a
boat-steerer.
15,628. Did you hear the evidence of Francis Gifford?-Yes.
15,629. Do you think he was generally correct in what he said?-
Yes. I know quite well that men who were in debt to the agent
could get a ship sooner than I could, who was clear with them.
15,630. Could a man do that although he was not so good a
seaman?-Yes.
15,631. Was that a general belief among the men?-Yes. For my
part, I never was indebted to any of the agents, and therefore I got
a ship whenever wanted it.
15,632. Did you get a ship because you were not in debt?-Yes; it
did not matter. I stayed in one ship for a long time.
15,633. Were the agents more willing to get a berth for a man who
was not in their debt?-No.
15,634. Did they prefer to engage a man who was in their debt?-
Yes; but there were not very many that would be in debt. Perhaps
a young hand, who had been a year or two only at the whaling, and
had small wages, would be in debt, and they would take him next
year in order to clear off the accounts which he had left the year
before.
15,635. Do you think the green hands were ready to get into debt
in order to make sure of getting a berth next year?-I don't know
about that.
15,636. Then what did you mean by saying that you never were in
debt, and therefore you always got berth when you wanted it?-I
only meant to say that always got a ship when I wanted one, but
that I never was in debt to the agents; and therefore I cannot prove
whether they would take me more readily if I was in debt. But I
have heard the men saying that those who were in debt would be
shipped as soon as the others.
Lerwick, January 30, 1872, ELIZABETH MORRISON, examined.
15,637. Do you live in Lerwick?-Yes.
15,638. What do you do?-Anything that I can. I go errands or
knit stockings, or anything of that sort.
15,639. Do you sometimes go about selling things?-I have sold
three or four neckties to different people.
15,640. Do you not sell other kinds of goods?-No. If I sell
anything, it is of my own.
15,641. Do you sell shop goods of different kinds?-No.
15,642. Do you mean that you do not go about the country and
hawk goods?-I don't do that.
15,643. Did you ever get any shop goods from a knitter for the
purpose of selling them or exchanging them for other things?-
No; the neckties I sold I got ready money for.
15,644. It is not neckties I am speaking about at all. Have you
not sold goods that you had got from knitting women for that
purpose?-No, not for some years past.
15,645. Did you once do that?-Yes, some time ago.
15,646. How long ago?-I cannot remember.
15,647. A year ago?-It is about that.
15,648. Did you not make a living sometimes by getting goods
from knitters and selling them again in the country?-No; I never
was out of Lerwick in my time.
15,649. Did you sell them in Lerwick?-I sold some bits of
dribblets of things that were not worth mentioning; but that
was some time ago.
15,650. What was it that you sold?-It may have been three yards
of cotton, or such as that.
15,651. Did you get such things pretty often from knitters?-No, not often.
15,652. When did you get them last?-It was a long time ago.
15,653. Was it six months ago?-It would be above that.
15,654. Would it be twelve months since you got anything of that
kind to sell?-I cannot say.
15,655. You said you had perhaps sold three yards of cotton:
whom did you sell it for?-I cannot remember.
15,656. Whom did you get it from?-I cannot remember.
15,657. Have you got it more than once?-Perhaps once or twice;
but it is a long time ago now.
15,658. Do you think you may have got it three or four times?-I
don't think I did.
15,659. What else did you get besides the three yards of cotton?-
Nothing.
15,660. Did you never get a bit of cloth for a dress?-No.
15,661. Or a jacket?-No.
15,662. Or a pair of boots?-No.
15,663. Did you ever get any tea or sugar to sell?-No.
15,664. Do you swear that?-I do.
15,665. Do you swear that you never sold a quarter pound of tea in
your life?-I do.
15,666. Did you never sell any sugar?-No.
15,667. Did you ever buy any except out of a shop?-I never
bought any except what I bought out a shop for my ready penny.
15,668. Did you ever tell anybody that you had sold things for
knitters?-No, I could not tell any one that.
15,669. Did you get that cotton from a woman who had got it for
her knitting?-I don't know in what way she may have got it, but I
got it from a woman. Who she was I cannot say, because she
picked me up in the street and gave it to me.
15,670. Did you get it sold for her?-I did. I don't remember who
bought it; it was some country person.
15,671. Do you not remember who the woman was that you got it
from?-I cannot remember.
15,672. Did you know her?-I did not know her.
15,673. In what way did she ask you to sell it for her?-She asked
me if I could get anybody to buy it, and I saw a country woman at
my side, and she bought it.
15,674. Why did the woman ask you to get it sold?-I don't know.
15,675. Had you never seen her before?-Neither before nor since.
15,676. Have you any idea why she asked you to sell it?-No, I
have no idea of that.
15,677. Do you think she had ever seen you doing the like
before?-There is many an old person such as me who does
errands for many a one.
15,678. Have you done errands of that kind at other times?-Yes,
years and years ago.
15,679. May you have done so a good many times?-I don't know.
It was very seldom I did it.
15,680. What did you get for that cotton?-I cannot remember
now.
15,681. Was it money you got for it?-Yes.
[Page 395]
15,682. Did you pay the woman you got it from at the time?-Yes.
15,683. Had you not paid her for it before you sold it?-I gave her
the money just as I got it from the woman at my side.
15,684. How long was it between the time when you got the cotton
and the time when you sold it?-Perhaps a minute or five or ten
minutes. The woman was just at my hand who bought it.
15,685. Why could the woman who gave it to you not have sold it
herself?-I don't know.
15,686. How much did she give you for selling it?-A penny.
15,687. Did you ever get a penny for selling anything else?-No; I
don't work in that way for my living.
15,688. Are you sure you never got a penny for selling any other
article for a woman?-I have got many a penny at different times,
but not in that exact way.
15,689. What else do you do for your living?-I live very meanly.
15,690. But do you never get any more than a penny for doing an
errand now and then?-I have no idea of doing errands only for
my living.
15,691. Is there anything else by which you make a living, except
by going errands?-I am not going errands for ever. I sometimes
sit and knit a stocking in my own room; that is all I do.
15,692. Do you sell your stockings?-No; they are just for myself.
15,693. Then they will not make it living for you?-No; but
perhaps some of my friends might lift a hand to help me.
15,694. Do you live on charity?-Not altogether on charity.
15,695. You do run an errand for a penny now and then?-No, not
I.
15,696. Why are you reluctant to tell me the truth?-I am not
denying the truth.
15,697. You are not willing to answer my questions: why is
that?-I have answered them so far as I know, and as far as I
am able. I have no more to say than I have told you, and I have
told you all the truth.
15,698. You say you do not make your living by charity, and you
only get a penny now and then for running errands, but that is very
seldom: is there any other way in which you make your living?-
When a person wishes to lift their hand to me in charity, I take
what they have to give me.
15,699. Do you swear that you don't make the principal part of
your living by selling things in the town?-I don't make my living
by that.
15,700. Do you swear that you don't sell something every day?-I
don't sell something every day.
15,701. Don't you sell two or three things every week?-No; I am
quite sure of that.
15,702. Have you sold anything this week?-No.
15,703. Did you sell anything last week or the week before?-No.
15,704. Did you sell anything last year?-I cannot remember what
I did last year, for my memory is quite gone.
Lerwick, January 30, 1872, WILLIAM B.M. HARRISON, examined.
15,705. Are you a partner of the firm of Harrison & Sons?-I am.
15,706. Your firm, I believe, are extensively engaged in the Faroe
fishing?-Yes.
15,707. In what form is the agreement you enter into with the men
for that fishing?-The men agree, in the first place, to prosecute
the fishing in a certain vessel, and to join the vessel any day when
we may call upon them to do so, and proceed to the fishing to
either Faroe, Iceland, Rockall, or any other place that the master
may think most expedient, and to stay there as long as the master
thinks fit, with the exception of the trips they may make home for
landing any fish they may catch, or in case of accident or for
any other good reason; in consideration of which services the
fishermen have to receive one half of the proceeds of the fish
caught, after deducting the expenses of curing, etc., such as
master's premium, 10s. per ton, mate's premium 2s. 6d. per ton,
and the cost of bait required for catching the fish. Along with that
the men have to get eight pounds of bread per man per week and
9d. per score for the fish which each man takes, one half to be
paid by the owners and the other half by the crew. That is the
substance of the agreement. And then there are clauses for our
safety, having reference to damage that may be done to the vessel
or her gear, which the men bind themselves to pay for.
15,708. Is there a scale of victualling for the men in case the
vessel goes to Iceland?-Yes. The agreement binds the men to
fish according to it until the 20th August; and the next clause says
that if the master or owner sees fit to leave Faroe for Iceland or for
a late voyage, then the men agree to go upon the victuals and
wages which are stated in the agreement.
15,709. Then in addition to the stipulations in the agreement, I
understand the owner receives a commission of five per cent. on
the whole proceeds of the voyage?-He is entitled to get it if he
can, but very often we don't get it. This year we have got nothing.
15,710. Was that because the men objected to it?-We always try
to pay as high as other people; but this year we have not made
such good sales, and therefore we have not taken anything off, so
that we might be able to give as much per ton as other people give.
In other years, again, we may get two and a half or we may get five
per cent, just as the fish sales turn out; and the men don't object to
us getting it if we can.
15,711. Why is there no stipulation for a commission put into the
agreement?-It has never been put into our agreements from the
first.
15,712 Is it a usual thing to take it?-Yes, it is quite usual if we
can get it; but we have to bear and haul with other people, and if
the men would be dissatisfied with us taking it we have to give it
up, and we would rather do so than have any words about it.
15,713. Was this not a good year in the Faroe fishing?-No, very
indifferent.
15,714. What was the amount of a share in one of your smacks
with an average take this year?-I should say about £18.
15,715. Was that sum larger than the ordinary, or would some of
them be less or more?-We had some of them as high as £28 for a
sharesman.
15,716. Were these in the larger smacks?-No; there were others
as large, but less fortunate; and there were some of them much
smaller, and they could not be expected to do so well.
15,717. Do the men ever ask for or get a sight of the bills of
sale?-Yes. I have shown them to the fishermen this year.
15,718. Had you ever shown them to them before?-Yes. I
had not shown them to every man, but I had shown them to the
captain, who I expected would have more knowledge of the matter
than the other men.
15,719. Do the men generally run accounts at your shop?-Yes;
every one of them has an account.
15,720. Do you think they get most of the supplies for their
families during the season from your shop?-I think they do.
Perhaps there are two or three of them who want to look after
their means better than the rest, and who have money lying beside
them: these men may perhaps buy goods with cash, and not from
our shop; but, as a rule, every one of them gets his supplies from
us.
15,721. I believe the majority of your men are not in debt to you at
settlement, but have a balance to receive in cash?-Yes. I think
there are very few this year, and there were very few last year, who
were in debt; and even with these men the amount of debt is very
small.
15,722. Do you think the amount of debt was smaller than usual in
the two years for which you have given [Page 396] returns, 1867
and 1871, or was it about an average?-That depends altogether
upon the fishing. If it is not a total failure, the men are generally
all clear of debt; but if a bad year comes in, then we cannot expect
that.
15,723. How do you account for the fact that the men almost all
take their supplies for the season from your shop in an account
with you?-If they have no money, it is not likely that other people
will give them supplies, unless they know them very well; and
even if they have money, I always find that the men prefer to keep
it and come to the shop again and take up goods.
15,724. Do they keep the money in their hands rather than pay
for the goods in cash when they get them?-Yes, invariably. I
have frequently noticed that practice among the men, and I have
spoken to them about it. I have paid as much as £20 to a man at
settlement, and then he would come into the shop and take out his
outfit. I have asked them why they did so, and told them it would
be better for them to pay for their goods with their own money,
and then they would know what they were doing.
15,725. What was their answer to that?-They said they preferred
to keep the money. It was always in their hand, and the goods
could stand over for a year; and perhaps, if the next year's fishing
is bad, they think we will allow it to stand for two years rather than
push them for the price.
15,726. Would the men not get their goods cheaper if a system
existed of paying in cash?-I don't think they would.
15,727. They might not get them cheaper as matters stand at
present; but if they were, all willing to pay in cash, would it not be
possible for you to give them their goods cheaper than you supply
them upon credit?-I would not sell cheaper for cash. The goods
are all marked in figures, and when they are paid for in cash they
are charged at the same prices as when put down to the account.
We have not two prices for our goods.
15,728. What proportion does your cash trade bear to your credit
trade?-I should say that it is more than one third, but not one
half.
15,729. In the answers you have given, are you speaking of the
Faroe fishermen in your employment, or are you also referring
to the home fishermen?-I have been speaking of the Faroe
fishermen principally.
15,730. Where are the men employed by you in the ling fishing?-
Most of them are situated in Sandwick parish.
15,731. Have they also accounts in your shop here?-Most of
them have.
15,732. But not to the same extent per man as the Faroe men?-
No; but we know exactly how much they are likely to gain, and
therefore they are not allowed to exceed a certain sum.
15,733. Do you limit the credits of the men employed in the home
fishing?-They limit their credits themselves, because they are
grown-up men with families, and they know how far they should
run their accounts. Of course, if they were running them further,
we would limit them; but we rarely have to do that, because we
know they must have the little which they do get.
15,734. Is not that the case with the Faroe fishermen also?-Yes;
we limit them too.
15,735. But I understand you to say that the necessity for limiting
the home fishermen is greater than in the case of the Faroe
fishermen?-Yes.
15,736. Why is that?-Because I consider the home fishing is not
so good a fishing: the earnings from it are not so great.
15,737. You said you knew quite well what the men are likely to
earn in the ling fishing?-Yes. I can tell from my experience the
outside which any ling fisherman can earn.
15,738. Do you know that before the season begins?-Yes. By
taking five or six years together, I can see what a man has done in
time past, and I don't expect that he will exceed it.
15,739. Do you think that any five years of a fisherman's life will
give an average from which you can calculate his probable take for
next year?-Yes; I think five years is quite sufficient.
15,740. The variation, I suppose, arises from the nature of the
season?-Yes; in stormy weather they cannot go to sea so often
as in good seasons, and in other times the fish do not come over
the ground so well as they did before. Another thing is the herring
fishing, which is connected with the ling fishing, the same boats
being used for both purposes.
15,741. Are you engaged in it extensively?-No, not very
extensively. I think we have about 10 or 11 boats altogether
which fish in the herring fishery.
15,742. Is the engagement of the fishermen in the herring fishing
similar to that which exists in the ling fishing?-It is exactly the
same.
15,743. They are paid according to the current price at the end of
the season, and that price is settled for at the same time as the
price for the ling fishing?-Yes; they are both settled for together.
15,744. Do the returns which you have furnished with regard to
the home fishing include in any of the answers the earnings from
the herring fishing?-Yes; they apply to both ling and herring put
together. In fact they apply to everything that the man has earned
in the years to which the questions relate.
15,745. Do you think it would be practicable to introduce a cash
system into Shetland in place of the annual settlements which now
exist?-It would be better for the curer. I don't know if it would
be better for the fishermen altogether. I think it would be better
for perhaps one half or two thirds of them; but the other third, I am
afraid, could not get on at all with the cash system.
15,746. Do you think they would have a difficulty in living over
the first half of the year?-Yes; over winter or spring, until the
fishing had commenced.
15,747. Do you think it would be impossible for them to get
advances during that time in order to keep them going?-If they
were to be paid in cash, the fish-curer of course would not give
them anything until they brought the fish to him, and other people
would be inclined to say the same thing. The man would merely
have to be trusted like any other man going into any shop and
purchasing goods on his own credit.
15,748. But, except for that difficulty, you would prefer a cash
system?-I would.
15,749. Do you think there would be any difficulty in carrying out
that system, supposing it were once begun, the men had tided over
that transition period?-I think there would be none whatever.
15,750. Would it be possible to pay the men fortnightly or
monthly, or at delivery?-I would pay them weekly.
15,751. Would you pay them the whole proceeds of the fish caught
during the week?-I would pay them exactly for every tail they
landed. I would fix a price with them at first, before they began to
the fishing at all; but that price might be altered weekly, according
the markets went up or down, the same as in any other trade.
15,752. Do you think the fishermen would agree to that?-We
have asked them to agree to it, but they have not done so.
15,753. Was that because they did not like to have the price fixed
and thus lose the chance of a rising market?-It was not so much
the fixing of the price that they objected to. They would have
agreed to that, but some of them who did not know where to find
means said, 'What are we to do if we get no cash for a week or
two in stormy weather, and we cannot go off; the merchant cannot
supply us then.' Of course they could not expect us to supply them
with anything after we had commenced with that system.
15,754. If the man was bound to fish for you, would you not be
willing to give him supplies?-But they would not be bound to
fish at all in that case.
15,755. But the men might be bound to fish for you all the season,
although they were paid weekly?-I would not care to engage
anybody then for the season. I would have a station at a certain
place, [Page 397] with weights there, and I would pay for the fish
as I got them.
15,756. Was that the nature of the offer which you made to the
fishermen, and which they would not accept?-Yes. We would
have no hold over the fishermen in that case at all.
15,757. Would it not be quite practicable to engage the men for
the whole season and to pay them weekly?-It would be quite
practicable.
15,758. Have you made an offer to them of that description?-
Yes; we have made an offer to some fishermen who fish for us
now.
15,759. Did you offer to engage them to fish for you for the whole
season?-Yes. If they commenced, they would never think of
changing.
15,760. In that case would there be any reluctance on the part of
the fish-curer to make an advance to the men in a bad week if they
were bound to fish for him over the whole season?-I should not
care to do it because they might get no more fish after a certain
date. At the end of the year the weather is very often such that the
men cannot go off for weeks, and we might be advancing on the
prospect of what never came, and then the men would be in debt.
15,761. In the case you refer to, were the fishermen not willing to
accept your offer?-They were not willing.
15,762. Do you think it would have made any difference in that
respect if the offer had been to pay a proportion of the price-say
a minimum price of 5s. 6d. or so for ling-and that the balance
should be paid according to the current price at the end of the
season?-I don't know how that would do. I never spoke about
that with the men. I think that would be giving them two chances.
It would be giving them the cash, and then giving them the full
value of the market after I had paid out my cash so much sooner
than I would otherwise have done. When a thing is sold, it is sold,
and you take your chance either to lose or to gain, but in that case
the fishermen would have the cash in their hands, and they would
also have the chance of benefiting by a rise in the price.
15,763. But in other trades, merchants have to lay out their cash in
wages and take their chance of a return?-Yes; and I would do the
same.
15,764. You would do the same if the men were paid wages, but
would you not be prepared to make part of the wages dependent
upon the market price of the fish?-No. I hold that in a business
transaction, if a party agrees to sell, and you agree to purchase, the
one takes his chance, and you take your chance too. That would
bring each party to an understanding of how matters stood between
them. If it was the practice altogether to purchase the fish green,
and to pay for them in money, there would be so many people in
competition for them that the men would be sure to get the full
value, because, if I gave 6d. more, another man would be sure to
give 6d. more if he could afford it, and the men would not lose
by that. The fish would go up to the very top price, and the men
would reap the advantage.
15,765. Do you think there would be always two or three
competing merchants at each station?-Certainly there would.
The stations are only half a mile apart; and if one man would
not offer the price, another would do so.
15,766. Are your curers paid by weekly wages?-We have one
curer paid by weekly wages.
15,767. Do you cure by contract?-Yes, as well as by wage.
15,768. How many people are employed in your curing
establishment during the season?-I cannot say, because some
go on for a week or two, and others go on at the end of that
time; but we will have as high as forty and as low as twenty
people who are not off work.
15,769. How are these people paid?-They are paid weekly by a
daily wage on Saturday night.
15,770. Do they receive payment of their whole wages in cash?-
Every penny.
15,771. Are they paid in cash even if they have had out-takes
during the week?-They have no out-takes; we don't give them.
15,772. Is yours the only establishment in Shetland, so far as you
know, where that is the practice?-So far as I know, I believe it is;
but I am not certain. The only other one where I thought it was
done was Leask's; but I happened to be present last day when Mr.
Robertson was examined, and I heard him say that they did give
credit, which I did not know before.
15,773. Has it been long the practice in your establishment not to
give credit to your weekly workers?-It has been the practice for
about five years.
15,774. Have you found it to facilitate your transactions very
much?-Yes; and it was for that reason we gave up the practice
of giving credit. When we first commenced to cure at Bressay,
we paid by weekly wages; but the people usually wanted some
advances before the Saturday night, and we found in a short time
that we were losing money by bad debts while a great deal of time
was involved in settling with them on the Saturdays. In fact it took
up so much time, and caused so much trouble, that we stopped it
altogether.
15,775. How did the bad debts occur?-The girls wanted to take
up clothing, and on Saturday night they required food for another
week, and we found they took up too much.
15,776. Have you found that the people are now contented
with the system which you have introduced?-They are quite
contented.
15,777. They don't come to you wanting out-takes?-Never.
15,778. Do you find they get on quite comfortably under the
present system?-Yes. What took us hours before to settle,
we can settle now in the course of half an hour.
15,779. Don't you think the fishermen might manage to get on
under the cash system if it were introduced in the same way that
you have done with your workers in the curing establishment?-
The fishermen are different thing. The fish have first to be caught
before they are paid for; whereas, in the other case, the people are
engaged for a weekly wage, which they are certain to get.
Lerwick, January 30, 1872, CHARLOTTE JOHNSTON, examined.
15,780. You live at Colafirth, near Ollaberry?-Yes.
15,781. How long have you lived there?-I was born at Colafirth,
but I came to Lerwick when I was 25 years of age, and I was here
for 17 years.
15,782. What did you do in Lerwick?-We kept a few boarders
and lodgers.
15,783. What do you do now in Colafirth?-I have been employed
scouring or dressing hosiery for the most part, and I generally
had to go to one man with it for 10 years, except two months. I
commenced on 1st. June 1861, and stopped on 8th April 1871.
15,784. Who did you dress hosiery for?-Chiefly for Mr. Morgan
Laurenson, Lochend.
15,785. Do you also knit?-Yes.
15,786. Were you always paid for that in goods?-Yes.
15,787. Did you get them at Mr. Laurenson's shop at Lochend?-
Yes.
15,788. Do you also deal sometimes at the shop at Ollaberry?-
Yes.
15,789. Have you an account there?-Yes. I have had a good
many accounts. I think the first account I had with Mr. Laurenson
was in 1863.
15,790. Were these accounts settled regularly?-No; that was the
mistake. I wanted to settle regularly after a few months, when I
got home perhaps from 10 to 20 dozen, but he ran on the accounts
for perhaps 14 or 15 months, so that I did not know whether I was
going ahead or going back.
15,791. This account [showing] was settled on [Page 398]
December 31, 1864: 'By contra., £7, 10s. 9d.' What was that
due you for?-I had scouring, and I had two tatted rugs, and I
knitted cloth.
15,792. I see the account is settled again on March 31, 1866: were
you still working at the same things?-Yes.
15,793. The work you did was put at the end of the book?-Yes.
15,794. The book you have shown me is a very carefully kept
pass-book, is it not? Is there anything wrong in it?-I was not
satisfied, and therefore I kept it.
15,795. Why were you not satisfied with it?-I thought he charged
me too much for my groceries, and gave too little for my dozens of
scouring.
15,796. Could you not have fixed your price for your scouring
yourself?-No, I did not get the chance. He did it all himself,
because he had both sides of the question.
15,797. But you had no need to work for a less wage than you
thought was fair. Could you not have gone somewhere else with
your work?-He always thought I should work to him. I could
have gone to many a place else, and got work and been paid for it
what I thought was a fair price, but he thought I should still have to
stay and work for him.
15,798. Why did he think so?-I suppose he thought he got as well
done to by me as he could have got done to him by another.
15,799. But he could not oblige you to do anything you did not
choose to do?-When I would refuse to do what he wanted me to
do at a time when I was up myself, he would send the things to me
in a box to be done.
15,800. But you did not need to dress the goods unless you got
what you thought was a fair price for them?-I had to do it,
because I had to work for my own maintenance.
15,801. Are the pass-books you have produced the only pass books
you have?-Yes.
15,802. The next one is for 1868 and 1869. Is with Mr. Laurenson
too?-Yes.
15,803. It is only brought down to October 1869. Have you had no
pass-book since then?-No; I wanted to stop work then because I
was not well.
15,804. Have you got no supplies from Mr. Laurenson since
1869?-Yes; I have got an account of them. [Produces account.]
15,805. When was the account settled last?-I think it was in April
or May 1871; perhaps it may have been in June.
15,806. On May 16, 1870, I see you are charged 8d. for oatmeal:
how much was that for?-4 lbs.
15,807. Were you told at the time you got it what the price of it
was to be?-No; I did not know at the time how much it was to be.
15,808. On June 27 you are charged 2s. for tea: how much was
that?-Half a pound.
15,809. Do you buy 4s. tea at Lochend?-We have bought 5s. tea
at Lochend, but that was in 1863.
15,810. Is it very fine tea that you get at 2s. per 1/2 lb.?-We ask
for
the best that is in the shop.
15,811. Are you quite content with the quality of it?-We must
just take it as it is, because we have no means of going anywhere
else. I have a sample of it here. [Produces sample of tea.]
15,812. Is that 4s. tea?-No, it is 4s. 4d. tea. That [producing line]
is the line they gave us for the goods we got on the 22d of this
month. [Witness produces line in the following form
s d
By hosiery 2 0
Tea 1 1
0 11
Rice 0 31/2
0 71/2
Sugar 0 21/2
0 5
s d
0 5
Soda 0 1
0 4
Soap 0 11/2
0 21/2
Cloves 0 1
0 11/2
Sugar and tobacco 0 11/2
15,813. Where do you say you got these goods?-At Lochend,
from Mr. Laurenson.
15,814. You took him 2s. worth of hosiery?-Yes.
15,815. How much tea did you get for 1s. 1d?-A 1/4 lb.
15,816. How much rice did you get for 31/2 d?-1 lb.
15,817. How much sugar did you get for 21/2 d?-1/4 lb.