The testimony of Bernard Weissman was taken at 10:30 a.m., on June 9,
1964, at the U.S. District Courthouse, Foley Square, New York, N.Y.,
by Mr. Melvin Aron Eisenberg, assistant counsel of the President's
Commission.
Bernard Weissman, called as a witness, having first been duly sworn by
the notary public, testified as follows:
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Weissman, could you state your full name?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Bernard Weissman.
Mr. EISENBERG. And your address?
Mr. WEISSMAN. 439 South Columbus Avenue, Mount Vernon, N.Y.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Weissman, did you receive a copy of the rules
governing this deposition?
Mr. WEISSMAN. I did.
Mr. EISENBERG. Have you had an opportunity to study them?
Mr. WEISSMAN. I have had an opportunity to study them.
Mr. EISENBERG. What is your occupation, Mr. Weissman?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Salesman.
Mr. EISENBERG. How long have you lived at your present address?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Presently or totally?
Mr. EISENBERG. Presently.
Mr. WEISSMAN. About 1 year.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Weissman, I now hand you an advertisement beginning
"Welcome, Mr. Kennedy," from the Dallas Morning News, Friday, November
22, 1963, which I will mark Weissman Exhibit No. 1.
(Excerpt from Dallas Morning News, Friday, November 22, 1963, marked
Weissman Exhibit No. 1.)
Mr. WEISSMAN. Might I interject at this point that since I don't have
the advice of counsel, that I reserve the right to refuse to answer any
question that I feel may not be in my best interests at the moment?
Mr. EISENBERG. Certainly. Now, under the rules, of course, you are
entitled to counsel, and if you wish we can adjourn this deposition so
that you can get counsel.
Mr. WEISSMAN. Well, I have tried to get counsel, and I frankly can't
afford it, and the counsel I could afford wouldn't take the case.
Mr. EISENBERG. I see. Well, would you wish us to try to make
arrangements for a court-appointed counsel?
Mr. WEISSMAN. This would be entirely up to you. I should think
possibly that if I can see my way clear to answer your more pertinent
questions--in other words, to your satisfaction--it might not be
necessary. Otherwise, we can do this some other time.
Mr. EISENBERG. Well, it is entirely up to you. Now, we can adjourn if
you want or we can continue and see whether the questions are pertinent
in your mind or not.
Mr. WEISSMAN. I would rather continue and to avoid repeating this
again, taking time out.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Weissman, I hand you this advertisement which I have
labeled Weissman Exhibit No. 1, and ask you whether you are familiar
with this advertisement?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes; I am.
Mr. EISENBERG. Are you the Bernard Weissman whose name appears at the
bottom of this advertisement, as chairman?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Weissman, could you tell us how this advertisement
came to be composed?
Mr. WEISSMAN. It is rather simple. A group of individuals in Dallas,
friends of mine, got together and decided to express our feeling about
the domestic and foreign policy of the Kennedy administration, and we
felt that picketing, anything of the nature of picketing, and so forth,
wouldn't go, since the Stevenson incident. We decided that the best way
to get our point across would be to run an ad.
Mr. EISENBERG. When was this decision made?
Mr. WEISSMAN. The decision was made approximately a week or so before
Kennedy's arrival in Dallas.
Mr. EISENBERG. That would be approximately November 15, 1963?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Approximately; a few days more, a few days less, in there.
Mr. EISENBERG. Who were the individuals who participated in this
decision?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Larry Schmidt, Bill Burley, myself, and one or two other
individuals who I would rather not mention.
Mr. EISENBERG. Can you state the reasons why you don't want to mention
these individuals, Mr. Weissman?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes. As a matter of fact, it is not that I doubt your
sincerity, personally, it is just that I doubt that--or it is my
feeling that there are several members of the Commission that might
use, if I implicate any individuals or organizations other than the
ones I have mentioned, that this may be used as a political weapon
later this year and the coming years, and I feel that what with very
comprehensive FBI reports and the report I have given to the FBI
myself, and the Secret Service, that any loose parts that are left out
right now can be pieced together if you desire to do it, from their
reports, very simply and very easily.
The reason I don't have the confidence I should have, not in the
Commission itself, but in some of the counsel to the Commission, for
example, Norman Redlich, if even 5 percent of what I hear about the
individual is true, I don't want to have this man in a position to hurt
anybody who has been or is an associate of mine.
Mr. EISENBERG. Well, Mr. Weissman, the subject of this deposition,
of course, is the advertisement, and it is crucial to that question
who composed the ad and who was instrumental in its placement in the
newspaper. Now, you are not represented by counsel, and I don't want
to press you to answer a question in the absence of representation
by counsel. However, since this is the very subject with which the
deposition is concerned, I think that if you don't want to answer that
question we should stand adjourned until you can obtain counsel, and I
will attempt to get a court-appointed counsel for you, if you can't get
counsel yourself. If you wish, and we can hold a recess while you think
it over.
Mr. WEISSMAN. Call a recess for a few minutes.
(Recess.)
Mr. WEISSMAN. What is your opinion here now? Let me put it to you that
way.
Mr. EISENBERG. I think that if there is any question in your mind at
all as to what questions you should answer, that you should get a
lawyer.
Mr. WEISSMAN. This is what I am going to do. I am going to read you, it
looks like about three or four pages, typewritten pages, I will read it
into the record.
It will tell the story why I came to Dallas, exactly what I and several
of my associates wished to accomplish.
I will name them where necessary and when I am finished I will let this
stand as my complete testimony, period, finis, and if at any other time
the Commission wants to talk with me, they will have to subpena me and
at that time--I want to get it over once and for all.
I am going to tell my story now as to why I did things I have done, how
it came about, how the ad happened to fit into this pattern, and it
will be all very simple and logical.
Mr. EISENBERG. Go ahead. You understand that when I say to go ahead I
don't mean that we will not be asking further questions, but you are
certainly welcome to put this in.
Mr. WEISSMAN. I understand. Our preparation to come to Dallas was made
approximately----
Mr. EISENBERG. Excuse me 1 second, Mr. Weissman. I want you to be very
sure that before you enter this statement in the record you shouldn't
consult an attorney?
(Witness indicates.)
Mr. EISENBERG. You are gesturing "no"?
Mr. WEISSMAN. I am gesturing "No"; that is right. About 3 years ago
in Munich, Germany, while I was in the service, I and several friends
joined or formed a conservative political organization, dedicated to a
conservative philosophy, and I am going to read what you might call the
constitution or the aims of that organization.
This was originally written by Larry Schmidt, who originally founded
the organization, which is known as CUSA, or Conservatism, U.S.A., and
this particular copy was prepared for the recruitment of new members
and what was expected of them.
It also applies to the members of what we call ourselves, the council.
The council originally consisted of myself, of Larry Schmidt, of Bill
Burley, of a Larry Jones, who is no longer associated in any way with
us, of Norman Baker, who is no longer associated in any way with us,
James Mosley, who is no longer associated in any way with us.
How was CUSA organized? CUSA, with its headquarters in Dallas, No. 5417
Louis Street, is broken down into two branches. The stateside branch,
which was headed by Larry Schmidt, and the overseas branch, which was
headed by myself.
Although both presently function separately from each other, they both
have the same organization, etc.
On August 1, 1963, the overseas branch will discontinue being a
separate branch and will become completely subsidiary to the main
stateside branch.
CUSA is set up similar to the Ford Motor Co. and its dependent, the
Ford Foundation.
Ford Motor Co. of CUSA is American Businesses, Inc. or AMBUS. AMBUS
will be a private profitmaking corporation which finances its own
Ford Foundation, which is Conservatism, USA, a nonprofit, nonpartisan
conservative political foundation with the goals outlined above.
The owners of AMBUS are the same as the five partners who are the
board chairmen of CUSA, the partners I mentioned before. All positions
in AMBUS and CUSA are appointed by the ETC or the executive in the
council, which again are the five members of that which has been
mentioned.
Every member of CUSA and AMBUS who works for either or both of AMBUS
and CUSA full time shall be paid at a salary at least equivalent to
that paid a man in a similar position in industry or politics.
In most cases AMBUS and CUSA will pay its people higher salaries.
CUSA is broken down into three divisions: the political analysis
division, the recruitment and fund solicitation division, and the
foreign affairs division.
AMBUS is divided into two divisions: the business management division
and the public relations division.
AMBUS' two divisions fully support the activities of CUSA. Each
division has its own organizational setup and subsidiary sections and
officers to carry out its functions.
For a copy of this, ask the chief of your particular branch--that is
pertaining to a new member. He will be happy to show it to you. For
detailed information on the operations of any particular division, ask
the chief of the division in question.
Geographically CUSA is broken down into six regions. These are the
eastern, northern, southern, southwestern, midwestern, and western
regions.
Each region has several States under its jurisdiction.
The headquarters of each region are as follows: eastern, New York City;
northern, Chicago; southern, Atlanta; southwestern, Dallas; midwestern,
Wichita; western, Los Angeles.
These regional headquarters come directly under CUSA's Dallas
home headquarters. Each State within the region also has its CUSA
headquarters. In each case the headquarters is located in the capital
of each State.
The State headquarters come directly under the regional headquarters
in which they are located. Each State in turn is broken down into
districts with several counties comprising a district.
Most States are broken down into four or five districts. These
district headquarters come directly under the State headquarters and
the breakdowns go along as I have mentioned, and it gets smaller and
smaller as the areas get smaller.
Both AMBUS and CUSA will have staffs in each of the regional State
district and city headquarters. These will be full-time salaried
employees.
How does CUSA expect to gain its goals? CUSA is convinced it can induce
all other conservative organizations to join it, especially if CUSA has
induced a large number, that more and more will want to jump on its
bandwagon.
For those organizations that refuse to join, CUSA will bring pressures
to bear to end their resistance.
CUSA will also work closely with conservatives in the Republican and
Democratic parties.
Among CUSA's members are some of the finest salesmen around, men who
know how to convince, how to sell, how to persuade: CUSA intends
to work toward monopolization of the money available for rightwing
organizations, thus forcing any organizations to come into the CUSA
fold.
CUSA will use any method, so long as it is legal and honorable, to
attain its goal. A timetable has been set up to guide CUSA's actions,
when each project has to be completed, and places these projects in
proper timetable sequence.
What will happen to CUSA after it reaches its goals? CUSA shall
continue to aid the conservative cause and keep our Government
conservative. So long as there is a U.S.A. there shall be a CUSA.
Can I make a career of CUSA? Most definitely. CUSA and AMBUS are big
business. Think of CUSA as being the same as a political party like the
Democratic or Republican. Even if it isn't actually a third party, it
shall function as one. However, if you desire and have the necessary
qualifications, CUSA will even run an individual for a political office
if it feels you can win.
AMBUS needs good business minds and CUSA needs aggressive political
minds.
Above all, CUSA-AMBUS needs salesmen, public speakers, writers,
debaters, analysts. Men who think like men of action and act like men
of thought.
But CUSA also needs background men, men willing to stay out of the
public eye and work quietly to do the planning, thinking, creating,
formalizing, and other things in a great cause.
CUSA-AMBUS has established regular wage scales along the line of the
civil service, GS-4 to GS-18.
Just what is a conservative, anyway? A conservative is a person who
looks at a man or a woman as an individual and respects him or her as
a unique human being rather than just a face in the crowd; a member
of the mass who believes in individual initiative above collective
charity, yet accepts charity where the individual cannot provide
for himself; who believes the Government should be supported by the
people, not the people supported by the Government; who believes
Government should be restricted to those areas of concern outlined in
the Constitution of the United States of America, leaving the citizen
free to pursue life, liberty and happiness without the overburdens
of excessive taxation that restrict such pursuits; who believes that
every effort should be made by individuals to provide for themselves
first and when that can't be done, help by local, State, or private
charitable organizations rather than by Federal Government aid
comprised of general taxation; who believes that the Federal Government
should not compete with private enterprise or interfere with the rights
of the States as outlined in the Constitution; who believes that the
best Government is the Government which governs least; who believes
that the best interests of the American people should be served by its
Government first before the peoples of other countries, yet believes we
Americans must help the needy peoples of other countries; who believes
the best interests of the U.S.A. should first be served by our Federal
Government before the needs of other nations are looked into, yet that
we should aid needy nations where aid is justified and deserved, and in
the best interests of our country; who believes that the American form
of republican government, a government of the people, for the people,
by the people, with rule by law and constitution, is the only way of
government and way of life for Americans; who believes that although
a government and system of law and rule and economics isn't perfect,
it is the best one ever attempted by mankind in its long history; who
believes that private enterprise and capitalism is the whole basis of
our way of life and the reason of our way of life--and the reason our
way of life is so richly endowed; who believes that communism is the
greatest threat to the existence and freedom of America and must be
completely defeated; who believes there can be no peace without victory
over communism; who believes that the true revolutionary political
system and the true revolution of mankind is the American democracy and
democratic and political system; that the enslavement of man embodied
in communism is as old as mankind itself, and therefore there is
nothing revolutionary about it, even though it has a modern name and
foundation and is certainly no good, indeed fatal, to mankind.
Is CUSA identified with any other organization or society? CUSA is
associated with no organization or group, be it political, economic,
social, fraternal, or religious. CUSA is committed to none, either.
I can interject a footnote of my own at this point. At council sessions
we decided to use whatever vehicles were necessary in the way of other
organizations to get CUSA off the ground and at the same time keep the
name CUSA secret among ourselves, as it was our organization, you might
say; no one of the other organizations that we became involved with
knew anything about the existence of CUSA or what we had planned to do
with it. They did not know, the individuals that we were concerned with
did not know, that in many cases, as a matter of fact, we were using
them merely as a vehicle to further the interest of CUSA.
Just who does CUSA hope to elect President?
I want to reiterate that this was prepared in late 1961 or very early
1962.
CUSA considers Senator Barry Goldwater (Republican, Arizona) as
Mr. Conservative, U.S.A., and wholeheartedly endorses him for the
Presidency, although CUSA is not committed to Mr. Goldwater in any way.
However, it is felt that he is by far the most outstanding conservative
politician and spokesman in the country.
How does CUSA feel about the so-called radical rightwing? CUSA has
proof that many so-called radical organizations are not really
radical or at least as radical as the enemies or opposition of these
organizations would have the public believe.
CUSA loathes extremism of the right, typified by the American Nazi
Party, as much as it does the extremism of the left, exemplified by the
Communist Party in the U.S.A.
CUSA does not believe, however, that an American can be too radical or
extreme in his love or patriotism for his country.
CUSA endorses Americanism, love of country, and patriotism, even if it
does not always agree with what some citizens believe is wrong with
our country, who is to blame for our faults and our solution to our
problems.
CUSA has faith in and believes in many rightwing organizations and
their endeavors, although it does not always agree with everything they
say or do, the words or actions of their leaders.
On the other hand, CUSA does not condemn a patriot who, in the heat
of anger or frustration, says things which are irresponsible and not
honestly meant. On the other hand, CUSA cannot subscribe to continued
irresponsibility on the part of organizations, its leaders or
membership.
This is one reason, for example, recently in Dallas, we decided not to
become, at least as far as we knew, to become involved with anybody
associated or doing business with General Walker, as an example. We
made it a point to try to stay clear of that.
How does CUSA feel about communism? CUSA intends to do everything
it can to destroy communism. CUSA is against any philosophy, any
organization, any group, any individual which threatens the freedom,
way of life, or congressional government of the United States.
CUSA is against any tyranny, whatever its skin or title; against
anything indecent, unlawful, or harmful to man.
Can anyone join CUSA? Any citizen of the United States who believes in
what CUSA is trying to do and who is not a demagog or dishonest, may
join CUSA regardless of race, religion, creed, or ethnic origin. CUSA
does not believe that patriotism is contingent upon skin, color, or
religion or family background.
Let me say again that this was prepared in 1961, and in its essence has
been followed through to the--up until the 22d of November 1963, and
this, I think, would give some reasons or give you several answers as
to why the ad was placed, why it read as it did.
Mr. EISENBERG. That completes the statement?
Mr. WEISSMAN. That completes my statement.
Mr. EISENBERG. OK; then we will stand adjourned.