Mr. LIEBELER. You indicate the man with the green X over his head as
being Oswald, and that is the man who was in your apartment?
Mrs. ODIO. He looks a little bit fatter. I don't know if it is the
picture. He looked thinner when he was in the apartment, than he looks
in this picture. He was kind of drawn when he was there. His face was
kind of drawn. But he looks more familiar there. He looks more like he
looked that day.
Mr. LIEBELER. In Exhibit No. 453-B, the man with the green line over
his head looks more like the man that was in your apartment; is that
correct?
Mrs. ODIO. That's correct.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have any doubt that that man with the green line
over his head in Pizzo Exhibit No. 453-B was the man who was in your
apartment?
Mrs. ODIO. Well, if it is not, it is his twin.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, I show you a photograph that has been marked Garner
Exhibit No. 1 and ask you if you recognize that man.
Mrs. ODIO. That is Oswald.
Mr. LIEBELER. Is that the man who was in your apartment?
Mrs. ODIO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Are you sure?
Mrs. ODIO. He doesn't have the little thing, the little moustache that
he had that day. He looks shaved there, and he did not look shaved that
day.
Mr. LIEBELER. I show you Pizzo Exhibit No. 453-C and ask you if that
looks like the man who was in your apartment?
Mrs. ODIO. That is not the expression he had, but he has the same
forehead and everything. But his lips, the only thing that confuses me
is the lips that did not look like the same man. It is that unshaved
thing that got me that day.
Mr. LIEBELER. Does Pizzo Exhibit No. 453-C appear to you, does the man
in that picture appear to be somewhat unshaven, or similar to the one
you saw in your apartment?
Mrs. ODIO. I think he was not. The only thing he had not shaved was
around where the mouth is, and everything else was shaved. That is way
he looked, kind of clothes hanging on him.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you think this man in Pizzo Exhibit No. 453-C is Lee
Harvey Oswald?
Mrs. ODIO. Yes; I think that is him.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you think that is the man that was in your apartment?
Mrs. ODIO. Well, let me say something. I think this man was the one
that was in my apartment. I am not too sure of that picture. He didn't
look like this. He was smiling that day. He was more smiling than in
this picture.
Mr. LIEBELER. We have to put the pictures down on the record, because
when somebody reads the record--you say that he----
Mrs. ODIO. He looks more relaxed in Exhibit No. 453-C. He looks more
smiling, like Exhibit No. 453-B, or different countenance.
Mr. LIEBELER. I have some motion pictures of the scene that we have
been looking at here in these still pictures. These pictures that have
been marked Exhibit Nos. 453-B and 453-C were taken from a movie that
was made of that, and we also have on that movie a picture of Lee
Oswald as he appeared on the television program in New Orleans on a
sound track. I want you to look at those pictures and tell us after you
have looked at the pictures if you think that man was the same man who
was in your apartment.
I have not yet made arrangements for the projector to be set up, and
there is an FBI agent bringing another picture over here from the FBI
office that I want you to look at this morning before you leave. But
I would like to have you--and I have another witness waiting for me,
and I have nine more witnesses. Could you come back later this evening
to look at the motion pictures? And in the meantime, I will have the
Secret Service set up a projection room to view the films?
Mrs. ODIO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Why don't we terminate momentarily now, and as soon as
the FBI comes over, I will show you this picture, and I will call the
Secret Service and find out when he can set up the viewing of this
film, and I will tell you what time to come back.
Mrs. ODIO. Since I am going to be downtown, do you want me to come back
any special time?
Mr. LIEBELER. I will tell you as soon as I talk to Mr. Sorrels.
Mrs. ODIO. Before I leave?
Mr. LIEBELER. I can't tell you before you leave. I will see if I can
set up a time. When you say that these men came to your apartment in
late September of 1963, can you give me your best recollection as
to how long before the first of October they came? You moved out of
your apartment in the Crestwood Apartments on the very last day of
September; is that correct? Or can you remember? Is there any way you
can check that by finding out when you moved into your apartment in Oak
Cliff?
Mrs. ODIO. The day I moved, I had gone to work, so it must have been on
a Monday or Tuesday. This man must have come by the end of the previous
weekend.
Mr. LIEBELER. I show you a 1963 calendar and point out to you that the
last day of September was Monday.
Mrs. ODIO. That is probably the day I moved.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you say that you also started working at a new job
that same day?
Mrs. ODIO. No, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. But you had been working on the day that you did move?
Mrs. ODIO. I started working initially the 15th of September, because
it was too far away where I lived in Irving. I started the 15th of
September, I am almost sure of the 15th or the 9th. Let me see what
day was the 9th. It was a Monday. It was the 9th, sir, that I started
working at National Chemsearch.
(Special Agent Bardwell O. Odum of the Federal Bureau of Investigation
entered the hearing room.)
Mr. LIEBELER. This is Mr. Odum from the FBI. As a matter of fact, Mr.
Odum was the man that interviewed you.
Mrs. ODIO. I remember. He looked very familiar.
Mr. ODUM. What is the name?
Mrs. ODIO. Odio.
Mr. ODUM. I interview so many people, it slips my mind at the moment.
(Agent Odum left the hearing room.)
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, you have indicated on the calendar, you circled the
30th of September, and you drew a line around the 26th, 27th, and 28th
of September. Can you tell me what you meant by that?
Mrs. ODIO. The 30th was the day I moved. The 26th, 27th, and 28th, it
could have been either of those 3 days. It was not on a Sunday.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now you indicated previously that Leopoldo called you the
immediately following day after they had been there; is that correct?
Mrs. ODIO. That's correct.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you also testified, according to my recollection,
that you had been at work on the day that Leopoldo called you; is that
correct?
Mrs. ODIO. Yes; it would be the 26th or the 27th for sure.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would you work on Saturday?
Mrs. ODIO. No; but he could have called me Saturday. But they would
have come Thursday or Friday.
Mr. LIEBELER. Thursday or Friday?
Mrs. ODIO. That's right.
Mr. LIEBELER. Because you had been at work on the day they came?
Mrs. ODIO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember whether you had been at work on the day
that Leopoldo called you?
Mrs. ODIO. I don't recall that.
Mr. LIEBELER. You can't recall that?
Mrs. ODIO. No. I know I was very busy with the kids, but I don't
remember.
Mr. LIEBELER. I show you a picture which depicts the same individual
that is depicted in an exhibit which has previously been marked
Commission Exhibit No. 237, and I ask you if you recognize that man.
Mrs. ODIO. No, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. That is not the man that was with Leon when he came to
your apartment?
Mrs. ODIO. No. I wish I could point him to you. One was very tall and
slim, kind of. He had glasses, because he took them off and put them
back on before he left, and they were not sunglasses. And the other one
was short, very Mexican looking. Have you ever seen a short Mexican
with lots of thick hair and a lot of hair on his chest?
Mr. LIEBELER. So there was was a shorter one and a tall one, and the
shorter one was rather husky?
Mrs. ODIO. He was not as big as this man.
Mr. LIEBELER. Not as big as the man in Exhibit No. 237?
Mrs. ODIO. That's right.
Mr. LIEBELER. Is that the man in Exhibit No. 237 that had a pushed back
spot on his head?
Mrs. ODIO. It was different. In the middle of his head it was thick,
and it looked like he didn't have any hair, and the other side, I
didn't notice that.
Mr. LIEBELER. This was the taller man; is that right? The one known as
Leopoldo?
Mrs. ODIO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. About how much did the taller man weigh, could you guess?
Mrs. ODIO. He was thin--about 165 pounds.
Mr. LIEBELER. How tall was he, about?
Mrs. ODIO. He was about 3-1/2 inches, almost 4 inches taller than I
was. Excuse me, he couldn't have. Maybe it was just in the position he
was standing. I know that made him look taller, and I had no heels on
at the time, so he must have been 6 feet; yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. And the shorter man was about how tall, would you say?
Was he taller or shorter than Oswald?
Mrs. ODIO. Shorter than Oswald.
Mr. LIEBELER. About how much, could you guess?
Mrs. ODIO. Five feet seven, something like that.
Mr. LIEBELER. So he could have been 2 or 3 inches shorter than Oswald?
Mrs. ODIO. That's right.
Mr. LIEBELER. He weighed about how much, would you say?
Mrs. ODIO. 170 pounds, something like that, because he was short, but
he was stocky, and he was the one that had the strange complexion.
Mrs. LIEBELER. Was it pock marked, would you say?
Mrs. ODIO. No; it was like--it wasn't, because he was, oh, it was like
he had been in the sun for a long time.
Mr. LIEBELER. Let's terminate now and we will resume when we show the
film to you tonight.