The testimony of Sgt. James A. Zahm was taken on July 24, 1964,
at 200 Maryland Avenue NE., Washington, D.C., by Messrs. J. Lee
Rankin, general counsel; and Arlen Specter, assistant counsel of the
President's Commission.
Mr. SPECTER. Sergeant Zahm, will you stand and raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which you shall give before
the President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help
you God?
Sergeant ZAHM. I do.
Mr. SPECTER. Would you state your full name for the record, please?
Sergeant ZAHM. James A. Zahm.
Mr. SPECTER. What is your profession or occupation, please?
Sergeant ZAHM. Master sergeant.
Mr. SPECTER. And in what branch of the service are you?
Sergeant ZAHM. U.S. Marine Corps.
Mr. SPECTER. How long have you been in the Marine Corps, Sergeant Zahm?
Sergeant ZAHM. Eighteen years.
Mr. SPECTER. Of what do your current duties consist?
Sergeant ZAHM. I am the NCO in charge of the Marksmanship Training
Unit Armory at the Marksmanship Training Unit in the Weapons Training
Battalion Marine Corps School, Quantico, Va.
Mr. SPECTER. When you say NCO, what do you mean by that for the record.
Sergeant ZAHM. Noncommissioned officer.
Mr. SPECTER. How long have you been so occupied in that particular duty?
Sergeant ZAHM. Two years 4 months.
Mr. SPECTER. What experience have you had if any in marksmanship?
Sergeant ZAHM. I became engaged in competitive shooting in 1952, and I
became a distinguished rifleman in 1953. I fired the national matches
from 1952 through to date about eight times. This is annually. I won
the President's match in 1953 at the national matches and the Leech Cup
in 1952, and the Marine Corps Cup in 1957. There are some others.
Mr. SPECTER. What experience have you had with telescopic sights,
Sergeant Zahm?
Sergeant ZAHM. One of my additional duties at the present time is the
noncommissioned officer in charge of the long-range team. This consists
of about 40 members of the Marine Corps Rifle and Pistol Team, and
I am charged with training, providing weapons, and hand loading the
ammunition for practice and eventual firing at 600 and 1,000 yards in
the interservice match.
Mr. SPECTER. Are telescopic sights used regularly in those activities?
Sergeant ZAHM. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Could you characterize for me in some manner your
experience then with telescopic sights in the number that you have used
or duration of time where you have used telescopic sights?
Sergeant ZAHM. Well, from my own experience, and it is true that the
higher powered telescopes are used in the particular type of firing
we are doing right now, deliberate slow fire at extreme ranges of 600
and 1,000 yards. We use 12-power to 20-power telescopes. These are
unsuitable for moving targets or closer ranges from unsteady positions,
because the power of the telescope tends to magnify the shooter's
movements and makes a hold more difficult.
In the lower-powered telescope such as four-power telescope at closer
ranges ranging from 50 to 200 yards, this is an ideal type of weapon
for moving targets or type of telescope for moving targets, and for the
closer ranges, things being inherent in the focus of the scopes when
you get in too close, the higher power type scopes tend to blur out to
a certain degree.
Mr. SPECTER. Can you characterize the increased efficiency of a
marksman in using a four-power scope as opposed to using only the iron
sights?
Sergeant ZAHM. Well, with the iron sights you have more room for error
in the fact that you have three variables. You have your targets, your
front sight and your rear sight, and you have the possibility of an
error in alining the sights, and then you also have the possibility
of an error in the sights on the targets, which we refer to as the
sight picture. Looking through aperture or even the open buckhorn type
sights, when you are concentrating on your sights, your targets tend to
become blurred because of the close focus of your eye in alining the
sights.
Now this as opposed to telescope of a four-power nature it is a natural
characteristic of a telescope when you are looking for your target, it
is a natural thing to center your target in the view of your telescope,
and in the center view of your telescope is the aiming crosshairs. This
is only one point.
If you get this one point, the crosshairs in the proper relationship to
your target, this is an aid in locating, finding your target, because
you are using the scope in the sense as binoculars. Once you have found
your target, your sights are already alined, and then through good
trigger manipulation the shot should be well on the target.
Mr. SPECTER. With respect to rapid-fire shooting, how does the
telescopic sight on a four-power scope work out?
Sergeant ZAHM. Four-power being a reasonably low-power scope, it has
a fairly broad field of view. By this we mean it covers a reasonable
amount of area out at about 100 yards, about I think probably around
30 feet or so. Using the scope, rapidly working a bolt and using the
scope to relocate your target quickly and at the same time when you
locate that target you identify it and the crosshairs are in close
relationship to the point you want to shoot at, it just takes a minor
move in aiming to bring the crosshairs to bear, and then it is a quick
squeeze.
Mr. SPECTER. Would you characterize it as easy, difficult, or how would
you characterize it to use a scope, a four-power scope in rapid fire?
Sergeant ZAHM. A real aid, an extreme aid.
Mr. SPECTER. Suppose in focusing in through the four-power scope you do
not get a completely circular view, but instead get a partial view with
a corner of the view being blacked out because you don't have the scope
in direct alinement, but you are still able to see a sufficient amount
of daylight through the scope so that you can see where the crosshairs
line up on target. Is it in sufficient alinement at that juncture to
permit the marksman to shoot accurately?
Sergeant ZAHM. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. And how does that work out that the alinement is
sufficient to permit an accurate shot, even though the marksman does
not have a completely clear view through the entire circle of the scope?
Sergeant ZAHM. Well, in the assembly of the telescope, the aiming
reticle or crosshair is so placed in the scope that it is in the same
plane as the focus of the lenses, and regardless of the position of the
eye behind the scope, this makes no apparent or no real movement of the
reticle on the target itself, so if the shooter can look through the
scope and see the juncture of the crosshairs, and it is on his target,
if he properly manipulates the trigger he will get a hit.
Mr. SPECTER. Have you had an opportunity to examine the documents
identified as Commission Exhibit No. 239 and Exhibit No. 1 to Major
Anderson's deposition, Sergeant Zahm?
Sergeant ZAHM. Yes; I have.
Mr. SPECTER. Based on the tests of Mr. Oswald shown by those documents,
how would you characterize his ability as a marksman?
Sergeant ZAHM. I would say in the Marine Corps he is a good shot,
slightly above average, and as compared to the average male of his age
throughout the civilian, throughout the United States, that he is an
excellent shot.
Mr. SPECTER. How much familiarity would a man with Oswald's
qualifications, obtained in the Marine Corps, require in order to
operate a rifle with a scope such as a Mannlicher-Carcano rifle with a
four-power scope?
Sergeant ZAHM. How much familiarity would he require?
Mr. SPECTER. Let me rephrase the question. Would it be very difficult
for a man with Oswald's capabilities as a marksman to use a rifle with
a four-power scope?
Sergeant ZAHM. No; I feel that the instruction that he had received
qualifies him on the basic fundamentals of marksmanship. There are
just a few refinements in the operation of the bolt rifle and the
scope through a minimum amount of experimenting would make him as
proficient with the bolt and the scope as it did with the weapons he
received instruction on, and if not it would improve his proficiency
actually through the use of the telescope. I feel that this would be an
advantage.
Mr. SPECTER. How many shots in your opinion would a man like Oswald
have to take in order to be able to operate a rifle with a four-power
scope, based on the training he had received in the Marine Corps?
Sergeant ZAHM. Based on that training, his basic knowledge in sight
manipulation and trigger squeeze and what not, I would say that he
would be capable of sighting that rifle in well, firing it, with 10
rounds.
Mr. SPECTER. Would dry runs be an aid to a man like Oswald in learning
how to operate a rifle with a scope on it.
Sergeant ZAHM. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Would you describe for the record what is meant in
marksmanship terms by a dry run?
Sergeant ZAHM. Dry firing is working the bolt and manipulating the
trigger and alining the sights, whether it be scope or iron, without
any ammunition. The advantage in the scope in dry firing is that when
he snaps the trigger or squeezes the trigger, he can see any apparent
error in his trigger manipulation, movement of the piece, by the jump
of the crosshair much easier than he can with iron sights.
Mr. SPECTER. Would the use of a four-power scope be a real advantage to
a marksman of Mr. Oswald's capabilities or of a slight advantage, or
how would you characterize the advantage that he would obtain, if any,
from the use of such a scope?
Sergeant ZAHM. I consider it a real advantage, particularly at the
range of 100 yards, in identifying your target. It allows you to see
your target clearly, and it is still of a minimum amount of power that
it doesn't exaggerate your own body movements. It just is an aid in
seeing in the fact that you only have the one element, the crosshair,
in relation to the target as opposed to iron sights with alining the
sights and then alining them on the target. It is a real aid.
Mr. SPECTER. Sergeant Zahm, I am now going to show you the same
photographs which I showed to Major Anderson in setting the basis for
asking you a hypothetical question on capabilities here. As the record
will show, we have heretofore before the President's Commission entered
into evidence Exhibit No. 347 which is an overhead shot of Dealey
Plaza. Commission Exhibit No. 348, which I am now displaying to you, is
a photograph of the Texas School Book Depository Building. The evidence
in the record indicates that the marksman stood at the point designated
"A" with the lower half of the window being raised halfway, and the
gun protruding out of that window pointing down the street called Elm
Street in approximately the angle of my pencil which is virtually
although not exactly straight down the street. Elm Street declines 3°
as it slopes under the triple underpass.
As the evidence will further show, Commission Exhibits Nos. 893 and
895 respectively depict frames 210 and 225 of the Zapruder film which
is a range of the first shot from 176.9 feet to 190.8 feet. In the
lower left-hand corner under designation "Photograph through rifle
scope" there is shown the view of the marksman from the sixth floor of
the depository building as he looked down at President Kennedy with
this picture being taken of a stand-in for President Kennedy, with the
white mark designating the spot on the President where the first bullet
struck him.
Now assuming that the President was struck under those circumstances
at a distance of from 176.9 feet to 190.8 feet, using a 6.5 mm
Mannlicher-Carcano rifle with a four-power scope, would a man with
Oswald's marksmanship capabilities be able to complete such a shot and
strike the target on the white mark there?
Sergeant ZAHM. Very definitely.
Mr. SPECTER. How would you characterize that, as a difficult, not too
difficult, easy, or how would you characterize that shot?
Sergeant ZAHM. With the equipment he had and with his ability, I
consider it a very easy shot.
Mr. SPECTER. Now taking a look at Commission Exhibit No. 902, which as
the record will show, has been introduced into evidence to depict the
shot which struck President Kennedy in the head at a distance from the
rifle in the window to the part of the President's body being 265.3
feet. Assuming the same factors about using a Mannlicher-Carcano rifle
and pointing it down Elm Street as shown on Commission Exhibit No. 347,
would a marksman of Mr. Oswald's capabilities using such a rifle with a
4-power scope be able to strike the President in the back of the head?
Would Mr. Oswald possess the capability to complete such a shot which
did, in this situation, strike the President in the back of the head?
Sergeant ZAHM. Yes; I think that aiming at the mass of what portion
of the President is visible at that distance and with his equipment,
he would very easily have attained a hit, not necessarily aiming and
hitting in the head. This would have been a little more difficult
and probably be to the top of his ability, aiming and striking the
President in the head. But assuming that he aimed at the mass to the
center portion of the President's body, he would have hit him very
definitely someplace, and the fact that he hit him in the head, but he
could have hit, got a hit.
Mr. SPECTER. So you would have expected a man of Oswald's capabilities
at a distance of 265.3 feet to strike the President someplace aiming at
him under those circumstances?
Sergeant ZAHM. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. And within the range of where you would expect him to hit
him, would that include the President's head?
Sergeant ZAHM. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. And how would you characterize that shot with respect to
whether it was difficult or not difficult?
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. SPECTER. Let's go back on the record. May the record show that
Sergeant Zahm has questioned the appearance of the "photograph through
rifle scope" which appear on Exhibits Nos. 895 and 902. And as the
record will show, there are only four photographs on Exhibit No.
895 whereas there are eight on Commission Exhibit No. 902, so that
necessarily the photograph through the rifle scope is much smaller as
it is depicted on Exhibit No. 902, and I want you to bear that in mind,
Sergeant Zahm, in answering the question as to whether you consider the
shot at a distance of 265.3 feet to be difficult or not difficult; or
characterize it for me in your own words.
Sergeant ZAHM. I consider it still an easy shot, a little more
difficult from the President's body position and increase in distance
of approximately 40 feet, but I still consider it an easy shot for a
man with the equipment he had and his ability.
Mr. SPECTER. Assuming that there were three shots fired in a range of
4.8 to 5.6 seconds, would that speed of firing at that range indicated
in the prior questions be within Mr. Oswald's capabilities as a
marksman?
Sergeant ZAHM. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. What effect if any would the alinement of the street have
on the moving vehicle in the way that it is shown on the picture,
Exhibit No. 348?
Sergeant ZAHM. This is a definite advantage to the shooter, the vehicle
moving directly away from him and the downgrade of the street, and he
being in an elevated position made an almost stationary target while he
was aiming in, very little movement if any.
Mr. SPECTER. How would the fact that the street had a 3° decline affect
the difficulty of the shot.
Sergeant ZAHM. It would make it easier because Oswald was in an
elevated position, and therefore if the car was traveling on a level
terrain, it would apparently--he would have to keep adjusting by
holding up a little bit as the car traveled. But by going downgrade
this just straightened out his line of sight that much better.
Mr. SPECTER. So that if the car had been proceeding on a level, the
assassin would have had to have raised his weapon as the distance
between the rifle and the car increased to allow for trajectory?
Sergeant ZAHM. No; just to allow for the movement of the targets, the
travel. Assume that you are aiming standing at ground level and aiming
down a little at somebody walking straight away from you, and you could
hold your finger and point to him and never have to move it. But when
he gets to the bottom of the hill and the ground levels out, then as he
continues on you have to point your finger----
Mr. SPECTER. Raise your finger as you are indicating with your finger
now?
Sergeant ZAHM. Right; you would have to raise your finger to track the
target.
Mr. SPECTER. So that if you were aiming at a man in a moving car
driving on the horizontal, as he got farther away from you, would you
(a) hold your rifle at the same level, (b) lower it, or (c) raise it?
Sergeant ZAHM. If you were in an elevated, a slightly elevated
position, and he was driving on straight level terrain, you would have
to continually track and raise your weapon as he increased his distance
from you.
Mr. SPECTER. And if he was going down in an angle of descent, would
that decrease the necessity for you to raise your rifle in tracking him?
Sergeant ZAHM. Right; it would slow the movement down. There still
might be a slight movement, but it wouldn't be as fast. Therefore, not
affecting the aiming or possibly having to introduce a lead in your
aiming, because the target is staying relatively in the same position
on the line of sight.
Mr. SPECTER. So then it would have been an aid to the assassin to have
had the President's car going on a downgrade because that would have
taken into consideration some of the adjustment necessary by virtue of
the greater distance between the rifle and the victim?
Sergeant ZAHM. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you have anything to add, Sergeant Zahm, which you
think might be helpful in this analysis?
Sergeant ZAHM. No, sir; I don't think so.
Mr. SPECTER. Thank you very much for appearing before the Commission
today, sir.