Mr. JENNER. Where did she reside?
Mr. THORNLEY. In Whittier, Calif., or at least last summer she did,
I don't know where she resides now. This young lady, by the way,
was mentioned in--her mention in this whole matter came out of a
misunderstanding on my part of a question asked by the FBI agents.
Mr. JENNER. All right. Would you explain that, please?
Mr. THORNLEY. I don't recall what the question was--oh, yes, he had
asked me something about, I believe it was the First Unitarian Church
in Los Angeles. I had mentioned earlier at the time I was talking
to Oswald, and knew Oswald, I had been going to the First Unitarian
Church in Los Angeles. This is a group of quite far to the left people
politically for the most part, and mentioned in order to explain my
political relationship with Oswald, at that moment, and he began to ask
me questions about the First Unitarian Church and I answered, and then
he realized or understood or asked what Oswald's connection with the
First Unitarian Church was and I explained to him that there was none.
Miss Bortin never knew Oswald and vice versa, and these people were two
different parts of my life. There was this civilian compartment and the
military compartment, and I never intermingled them.
Mr. JENNER. This young lady married and her husband is now in Havana,
Cuba?
Mr. THORNLEY. That is what she told me last summer; yes. He was going
to school in Cuba.
Mr. JENNER. I take it this had nothing to do with yourself and Oswald's
views with respect to Castro that you told us about.
Mr. THORNLEY. No; this happened, I think, later, in fact I am sure it
happened later. At that time Miss Bortin, she was then unmarried, did
not know Robert Uname, I believe. I met him, I believe, September a
year later.
Mr. JENNER. Had you finished that?
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. I take it that Oswald had no close personal friends at
least that you observed?
Mr. THORNLEY. That is correct. And the name of his closest friends I do
not know. I do remember he had a close acquaintance that he seemed to
get along with pretty well.
Mr. JENNER. In the unit?
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes; but I don't recall this man's name. If it was
mentioned to me, I probably could, but----
Mr. JENNER. You were groping for it when you were interviewed. You
suggested it might be Charles----
Mr. THORNLEY. I mentioned a Charles.
Mr. JENNER. Weis.
Mr. THORNLEY. Weir, but that was not the man. This was a friend of a
friend of the friend or a man who could give them that information
perhaps that I couldn't.
At this time perhaps, also, I was thinking of a possibility it might
have been Weir and since then I have remembered definitely who Weir was.
Mr. JENNER. Who was he?
Mr. THORNLEY. I don't remember whether his first name was Charles but I
remember who he was.
Mr. JENNER. He was a noncom?
Mr. THORNLEY. There was a man named Cooley. There was somebody else,
and these are my associations, but who it was who used to talk Russian
in the ranks with Oswald in the morning I don't know, but that is who
it was.
Mr. JENNER. Is this particular man you now mentioned the man who
occasionally talked Russian with Oswald in the ranks, is he the man who
you had in mind?
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. As having been a friend of Oswald's?
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes; in that in the same respect that I was a friend of
Oswald's. Once, again, the exact terminology I would use would be close
acquaintance.
Mr. JENNER. Yes; I would say from your description of the relationship
with Oswald that it was more an acquaintanceship than a friendship.
Mr. THORNLEY. I think it was probably the same with this person from
what I recall, to my knowledge.
Mr. JENNER. In other words, when you say friend, he wasn't a buddy of
Oswald?
Mr. THORNLEY. No; Oswald was not the type of person who had, as it
has been emphasized on all parts, I think, and it confirms my own
impression, was not the type of person who made close friends or who
stuck with close friends.
Mr. JENNER. You saw no instance in which Oswald evidenced affection for
anybody, I mean in the nice sense of the word?
Mr. THORNLEY. No; none whatsoever.
Mr. JENNER. Or anybody evidenced any affection in the nice sense of the
word for him?
Mr. THORNLEY. No.
Mr. JENNER. I take it your trip to Mexico City was purely one of
general interest as you have described and had nothing to do with any
interest on your part in going to Cuba or attempting to go to Cuba?
Mr. THORNLEY. Believe me, no. I have no desire to go to Cuba unless I
am going to take a rifle and be on an invasion force or something.
Mr. JENNER. Did you hear of anybody in the Marine Corps, whose last
name was Hidell?
Mr. THORNLEY. At the time this name was mentioned to me that was--that
person, whoever it was that Oswald used to speak to in the ranks in the
morning came to my mind. But I can't say that that was the name, and
I am--of course, now, I am very leery that that--very uncertain as to
ever having heard the name Hidell, and I doubt it very much.
Mr. JENNER. Shortly after the unfortunate occurrence of November 22,
1963, you were interviewed by Secret Service agents, were you not?
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes. Now, this is what I had mentioned earlier. This was
the Monday interview, of November 25, actually it was midnight Sunday
night as I recall. It seemed to me a couple of days later before I
spoke to the FBI. I believe there was a Mr. Rice--was one of the men.
Mr. JENNER. This was the evening of the 23d of November?
Mr. THORNLEY. Was it the 23d?
Mr. JENNER. It probably ran over.
Mr. THORNLEY. It must have been Saturday evening then. I had thought it
was Sunday evening.
Mr. JENNER. In any event you were then interviewed by some newspaper
reporters?
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes; that was quite some time afterward.
Mr. JENNER. Well, it was before November 27, 1963, was it not?
Mr. THORNLEY. It was after the 25th, I think. It was after I had
finished talking to the FBI, as I remember.
Mr. JENNER. I will mark as Thornley's Exhibit No. 1 what purports to be
a Xerox reprint of a newspaper article.
(The document referred to was marked Thornley Exhibit No. 1 for
identification.)
Mr. JENNER. Are you acquainted with that?
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. What newspaper was this from?
Mr. THORNLEY. The States-Item of New Orleans.
Mr. JENNER. And that article was a result of the newspaperman's
interview with you?
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Did you see it upon its publication?
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. You are familiar with it?
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Does it substantially accurately reflect at least portions
of, in reasonable context, the interview you had with the newspaper
reporter?
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes; to a surprising degree for a newspaper, on the basis
of my past experience in dealings with them.
Mr. JENNER. Is there anything in that article that you regard as
reasonably seriously erroneous?
Mr. THORNLEY. Not when I read it the last time.
Mr. JENNER. Insofar as it attributes anything to you?
Mr. THORNLEY. May I reread it?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mr. THORNLEY. I would say this is accurate in everything it attributes
to me.
Mr. JENNER. All right. I offer Thornley Exhibit No. 1 in evidence.
Now, it appears from that article and from the testimony you have
given this morning that you were stimulated, or, as you have indicated
you prepared at least a first draft of a book or pamphlet or article
respecting your experiences in the Marine Corps, and one of the central
characters of which, mythical or otherwise, was a friend, Oswald.
Mr. THORNLEY. That is correct.
Mr. JENNER. And when I spoke to you by telephone the other day I
inquired of you as to whether that was still in existence and you
responded that it was.
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And you were kind enough to say you would bring it with you.
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Have you done so?
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. May I see it, please?
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes, sir; here is the draft completed in February of 1962.
Mr. JENNER. Yes; I am interested in seeing that in its condition as of
that time.
Mr. THORNLEY. Right. That is it. There is only one addition and there
is some blank paper on top. There is one addition, and that is the
short preface written yesterday to give some idea of how much was fact
and how much was fiction.
Mr. JENNER. All right--the page numbered 2?
Mr. THORNLEY. There was a table of contents once and it took two pages.
Mr. JENNER. Which I might identify in addition thereto as having the
word "Preface," at its top and your name and the date May 17, 1964,
Arlington, Va., at the bottom. That is what you prepared yesterday, is
that correct?
Mr. THORNLEY. Correct.
Mr. JENNER. All of the balance, therefore, commencing with the pages
numbered 3 and running through, I assume, consecutively?
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. To page 250 is the article as it was when you completed it
in February 1962?
Mr. THORNLEY. Precisely.
Mr. JENNER. I would like the opportunity of reading through this and,
of course, 200-odd pages, we don't have the time to do it as of the
moment, and the Commission would like to have it among its records.
May I have the material and I will take it in the back room. We have
a Xerox, and have it duplicated? This, I appreciate, is your personal
property and it is of value. It is not something that the Commission
will place in the hands of others who may make commercial use of it.
Mr. THORNLEY. I am quite sure that it will be perfectly safe.
Mr. JENNER. All right. It is in the same condition now, that is, pages
3 through 250, as those pages were when you completed this manuscript
in February 1962?
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes; there might have been a couple of spelling errors
corrected since then or typographical errors but that is all.
Mr. JENNER. And that article of which we now speak and which for
purposes of identification I will mark as Thornley Exhibit No. 2, and I
offer Thornley Exhibit No. 2 in evidence.
(The document referred to was marked Thornley Exhibit No. 2 for
identification.)
Mr. JENNER. Subsequently thereto, I understand from my conversation
with you, you prepared a revision of that paper.
Mr. THORNLEY. I have been working on a revision.
Mr. JENNER. And you were kind enough to say you would bring that along
with you as well. Have you done so?