Mr. PIC. At home.
Mr. JENNER. No.
Mr. PIC. So, I am afraid I can't remember that Congress Street address.
I remember a green house.
Mr. JENNER. A green house.
Mr. PIC. Yes; that is about the best I can do.
Mr. JENNER. In any event it was a house different from or other than
the 2109 Alvar?
Mr. PIC. That is correct, sir.
Mr. JENNER. In which you were living at the time of the death of your
stepfather?
Mr. PIC. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. That is good enough. You remember being with your brother
Robert in the Bethlehem Orphanage?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And your initial utterance voluntarily was that you entered
there in 1942.
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir; it was right after the war.
Mr. JENNER. The records show that it was in the month of January
1942. You were then 10 years old so you might have some reasonable
recollection of it. Tell us the circumstances and what you understand
about it.
Mr. PIC. Well, while we lived on this Bartholomew Street my mother
opened in the front room a little store called Oswald's Notion Shop. I
think she sold spools of thread and needles and things like this.
Mr. JENNER. Did she sell any sweets or candy for children?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir; I remember we used to go in there and swipe it.
Mr. JENNER. Was your mother working at that time other than managing or
operating this little notions and sweet shop?
Mr. PIC. Not that I remember, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And it was in a segment of the home at 1010 Bartholomew?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir; it was the very front room.
Mr. JENNER. And you boys were then attending school where?
Mr. PIC. Washington.
Mr. JENNER. When I say you boys, it is your brother Robert and yourself.
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir; I am sure Robert was attending school then. It was
Washington.
Mr. JENNER. Yes. Your brother Robert entered grammar school on
September 8, 1938. That was William Frantz so he was of school age at
the time we are talking about.
Describe that little house to us on Bartholomew. Was it a new house?
Mr. PIC. No, sir; it wasn't new. I guess it had about a minimum of two
bedrooms, rather large back yard. We had a dog, and the dog's name was
Sunshine. There was a fence ran down it. I remember the house.
Mr. JENNER. Was it a nice neighborhood?
Mr. PIC. It wasn't as nice as Alvez and Galvez.
Mr. JENNER. At that time. I see. Now, you lead me to ask something I
should have asked heretofore, tell me about the neighborhood at 2109
Alvar. What do you recall about that?
Mr. PIC. They were all brand new houses. In fact, I think we were the
first ones to move in on the street, and most of the other ones were
under construction there. William Frantz was building a new school. It
was a rather nice neighborhood. Middle income, I guess, at that time.
Mr. JENNER. And the 1010 Bartholomew home was not as new and the
neighborhood was not quite the same as at 2109 Alvar, but what kind
of a neighborhood was it? Was it a reasonably nice place, area? You
describe it. Don't ever let me put words in your mouth.
Mr. PIC. Well, digging back in my sociology courses, I would say it was
upper-lower class, if there is such a classification.
Mr. JENNER. Do you remember any neighbors at 1010 Bartholomew?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir; there was a milkman, his name was Bud. Right on the
other corner from Bartholomew, on St. Cloud was a theater, I think was
called the Nola, and he lived behind this theater, he was our milkman,
and my mother and his wife and him were rather friendly, and we used to
go on trips on the weekends to the parks and things like this.
Mr. JENNER. Now, I ask you again what you recall to have been the
circumstances under which you entered the Bethlehem Orphanage, you and
your brother Robert?
Mr. PIC. I can only give you impressions, I have now, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Are these impressions that you gained now, gained from an
attempt to refresh your recollection?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. As to the circumstances at that time?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mr. PIC. I think properly the notion store wasn't a booming business,
and she had to go to work and since we were reminded we were orphans
all the time, the right place to be would be in an orphan home.
Mr. JENNER. Your mother did remind you repeatedly that you were orphans?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. That sort of thing. Would you elaborate on that, please?
Mr. PIC. Well, sir; she constantly reminded us we were orphans, that
she didn't have the money to support us in everything, and she opened a
notion store to make money, and she wasn't making money, and I remember
she closed it and went to work at about the same time that we entered
Bethlehem.
Mr. JENNER. In January 1942, Lee was a little over 2 years old, is that
correct; he was born October 1939.
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. You were then 10 and your brother Robert was 8, I am
talking about approximate ages now.
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. I think you entered Bethlehem before your tenth birthday.
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And a few months before his eighth birthday. Did Lee
eventually join you at Bethlehem?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir; he did. The exact date I don't remember. I know
he was there for only a matter of months. He wasn't there as long as
Robert and I was.
Mr. JENNER. I show you a document I will have marked as John Pic
Exhibit No. 2, please, for purposes of identification which appears
to be a Xerox reproduction of an application blank executed by Mrs.
Marguerite Oswald and related minutes for admission of Lee Oswald to
the Evangelical Lutheran Bethlehem Orphan Asylum Association, dated at
New Orleans, December 26, 1942, and showing entry of Lee Oswald into
the orphanage asylum on the 26th day of December 1942.
(John Pic Exhibit No. 2 was marked for identification.)
Mr. JENNER. Sergeant, I direct your attention to the line on which
appears what purports to be the signature of "Mrs. Marguerite Oswald."
You are familiar with the handwriting, are you not?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Of your mother Marguerite?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And with her signature?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Drawing on that familiarity, is that signature the
signature of your mother?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. I offer in evidence the document now identified as John Pic
Exhibit No. 2.
Having done that, Sergeant, does that refresh your recollection as to
the time when your brother Lee Oswald was admitted to the orphanage
asylum?
Mr. PIC. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Do you recall it to have been sometime in late 1942 or
thereabout?
Mr. PIC. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. What is your recollection as to when he was--he joined you
at the orphan asylum.
Mr. PIC. I remember we were there a while, sir. He came, and to the
best of my recollection he didn't stay but 6 months at the longest, and
left again. I don't think--he wasn't there as long as we were.
Mr. JENNER. I direct your attention, Sergeant, to the fact your mother
has listed on this application her address as 111 Sherwood Forest Drive.
Mr. PIC. That address is familiar to me. Sherwood Forest Drive part of
it, the numbers are not.
Mr. JENNER. I wouldn't expect you to remember the exact number but the
street you do recall?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir; I do. In fact, the Murrets lived on the same street.
Mr. JENNER. Is it your impression then that the address of 111 Sherwood
Forest Drive was probably the address of the Murrets?
Mr. PIC. No, sir; I wouldn't say that.
Mr. JENNER. Do you recall your mother moving out of 1010 Bartholomew?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And so that it is your recollection that sometime between
your entry into the Bethlehem Orphanage at which time the family lived
at 1010 Bartholomew, that your mother and Lee or at least your mother
left, it must have been your mother and Lee, left the 1010 Bartholomew
residence and moved to another home on Sherwood Drive?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Tell us about that. You put it in sequence as best you can.
Mr. PIC. If there was anything between Bartholomew and Sherwood Forest
Drive, I don't remember, sir. I do remember the Sherwood Forest Drive
house, and if I remember right it was three or four doors down from the
Murrets.
Mr. JENNER. Where would that be in your recollection with respect to
Bartholomew?
Mr. PIC. Oh, that is way across town, sir. That is in the city park
area. In fact, it was only a block from city park.
Mr. JENNER. And Lee was then--your mother had him with her because at
this time, December 1942, he was just a little over 3 years old.
Mr. PIC. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. The records show that the 1010 Bartholomew home was sold
on the 16th of January 1942. Does that refresh your recollection as to
sequence that prior to her sale of the house she moved out of the house
and over to Sherwood Drive and the placing of you boys in the Bethlehem
orphanage school was all part of the picture? She sold the Bartholomew
house, entered you boys in the orphanage in January 1942.
Mr. PIC. You want to know if I think she sold the house before we were
placed in the home?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mr. PIC. I don't know, sir.
Mr. JENNER. But after you were in the home, that is the Bethlehem
Orphanage Home that house was disposed of in some fashion at least?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And she moved into another house on Sherwood Drive?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. By the way, do you remember anybody, an uncle of yours by
the name of John Oswald?
Mr. PIC. No, sir.