162. While the spirit who had been a prelate and a preacher was with

those who were clothed, a woman with a very pretty face appeared. She

was simply attired; her robe hung gracefully behind her, and was also

drawn over her arms, and she wore a beautiful head-dress, in the form

of a chaplet of flowers. That spirit was greatly delighted at the

sight of this virgin; he spoke to her, and also took her by the hand;

but, apperceiving that he was a spirit, and not of that earth, she

hurried hastily away from him. Afterwards there appeared to him on the

right several other women, who had the care of sheep and lambs, which

they were then leading to a watering-trough, into which water was led

by means of a trench from some lake. They were similarly clothed, and

had shepherds' crooks in their hands, by which they led the sheep and

lambs to drink; they said the sheep went whichever way they pointed

with their crooks: the sheep which we saw were large, with woolly

tails, broad and long. The faces of the women, when seen nearer, were

full and beautiful. Some men were also seen; their faces were of a

human flesh colour, like that of the men of our Earth, but with this

difference, that the lower part of the face, instead of being bearded,

was black, and the nose more of a snowy-white than of a flesh colour.

Afterwards the spirit who, as already mentioned, had been a preacher

in the world, was led further on, but reluctantly, because he was

still thinking about that woman with whom he had been delighted, as

was evident from the circumstance that there still appeared something

of his shadow in the former place. He then came to those who were

naked. They were seen walking together by twos, husband and wife, girt

with a girdle about the loins, and some sort of covering around the

head. That spirit, when he was with them, was led into the state in

which he had been in the world when he was disposed to preach, and

then he said he would preach before them the Lord crucified; but they

said they would not hear such a thing, because they did not know what

it was, but that they knew that the Lord lives. He then said he would

preach the Lord living; but this too they refused, saying that they

apperceived in his speech something not heavenly, because it had much

respect to himself, and his own fame and honour; and that they could

hear from the tone of voice whether what was said came from the heart

or not; and that, as he was of such a character, he was unable to

teach them; wherefore he was silent. During his life in the world he

had been extremely pathetic, so that he could deeply move his hearers

to holiness; but this pathetic manner had been acquired by art, thus

from self and the world, and not from heaven.

163. They said, moreover, that they have a perception whether the

Conjugial is with those of their clan who are naked; and it was shown

that they perceive this by virtue of a spiritual idea concerning

marriage, which idea being communicated to me was to the effect, that

a likeness of the interiors was formed by the conjunction of good and

truth, consequently of love and faith, and that from that conjunction

descending by influx into the body conjugial love comes into

existence. For all things which belong to the mind (_animus_) are

exhibited in some natural form in the body, consequently in the form

of conjugial love, when the interiors of two mutually love each other,

and from that love also desire to will and to think the one as the

other, and thus to be together and be conjoined as to the interiors

which are of the mind (_mens_). Hence the spiritual affection, which

is of the minds, becomes natural affection in the body, and clothes

itself with the sense of conjugial love. The spiritual affection

which is of the minds is the affection of good and truth, and of their

conjunction; for all things of the mind, or of the thought and will,

have relation to truth and good. They also said that it is quite

impossible for the Conjugial to exist between one man and several

wives, since the marriage of good and truth, which pertains to the

minds, can exist only between two.

164. After this, the spirit already spoken of came to those who were

naked, but whose bodies were flame-coloured; and lastly, to those who

were black, some of whom were naked and some clothed; but the latter

and the former dwelt in a different part of the same earth; for a

spirit may be led in an instant to places far asunder on an earth,

since he does not proceed and advance like man through spaces, but

through changes of state (see above, nos. 125, 127)[ss].

165. I lastly conversed with the spirits of that earth concerning

the belief of the inhabitants of our Earth on the subject of the

resurrection, in that they cannot conceive that men come into the

other life immediately after death, and then appear as men as to the

face, the body, the arms, the feet, and all the external and internal

senses; still less that they are then clothed in garments, and have

mansions and dwelling-places; and that the sole reason of this is that

most persons here think from the sensuals which belong to the body,

and therefore believe in the existence of nothing but what they see

and touch; and that few of them can be withdrawn from external sensual

things to interior things, and thus be elevated into the light of

heaven, in which such things are perceived. Hence it is, that they can

have no idea of their soul or spirit as of a man, but as of wind, or

air, or a breath without form, in which there is yet something vital.

This is the reason why they do not believe they shall rise again till

the end of the world, which they call the Last Judgment, when the

body, though mouldered into dust, and scattered by every wind, will be

brought together again and conjoined to its soul or spirit. I added,

that it is permitted them to believe this, since those who, as was

said, think from external sensual things, can conceive no otherwise

than that the soul or spirit cannot live as a man in a human form,

unless it receive again that body which it carried about in the world;

wherefore, unless it were asserted that the body will rise again, they

would reject from their heart as incomprehensible the doctrine of

the resurrection and of eternal life. But nevertheless this thought

concerning the resurrection has this advantage with it, that it leads

them to believe in a life after death, a consequence of which belief

is, that when they lie on a sick bed, and do not, as theretofore,

think from worldly and corporeal things, thus not from sensual

things, they then believe that they shall live immediately after their

decease; they then also speak of heaven, and of the hope of a life

there immediately after death, quite apart from their doctrinal

concerning the Last Judgment. I related further, that sometimes it had

been matter of surprise to me, that when those who are in faith speak

of a life after death, and of their friends and relatives who are

dying or dead, and do not at the same time think about the Last

Judgment, they believe that they will live or are living as men

immediately on their decease. But as soon as thought concerning the

Last Judgment flows in, this idea is changed into the material idea

concerning their earthly body, that it is again to be conjoined to

their soul; for they do not know that every man is a spirit as to his

interiors, and that this it is which lives in the body and in each of

its parts, and not the body which lives of itself; and that it is the

spirit of every one from which his body has its human form, and which,

consequently, is principally the man, and in a similar form, but

invisible to the eyes of the body, yet visible to the eyes of spirits.

Hence also, when the sight of a man's spirit is opened, which is

effected by the removal of the bodily sight, angels appear as men: in

this manner angels appeared to the ancients, as recorded in the

Word. I have also sometimes spoken with spirits, with whom I had been

acquainted when they lived as men in the world, and I have asked

them whether they had any inclination to be clothed again with their

earthly bodies, as they used to think would be the case. But they fled

far away at the very idea of such a conjunction, being smitten with

amazement that, while in the world, they should have thought in

this manner under the influence of so blind a belief, devoid of all

understanding.

166. Moreover, on that earth I saw the dwellings of the inhabitants:

they were lowly houses, extended in length, with windows at the sides,

according to the number of the rooms or chambers into which they were

divided. The roof was arched, and there was a door on each side at

the end. They told me that they were built of earth, and covered with

turf; and that the windows were formed of filaments of grass woven

together in such a manner that the light shone through. I also saw

little children; and the inhabitants told me that their neighbours

come to them, especially for the sake of the little children, that

they may be in company with other children in the presence and under

the direction of their parents. There also appeared fields becoming

white with standing crops that were at that time nearly ripe for

harvest. The seeds or grains of that corn were shown me, and they were

like grains of Chinese wheat: I was also shown some bread made from

it, which was in small square loaves. There also appeared plains

of grass adorned with flowers; also trees laden with fruit like

pomegranates; also shrubs, which were not vines, but still produced

berries from which they prepare wine.

167. The sun of that earth, which is to us a star, appears there

flaming, in size almost a fourth part of our sun. Their year is about

two hundred days, and each day fifteen hours, relatively to the length

of days on our Earth. The earth itself is one of the least in

the starry heaven, being scarcely five hundred German miles in

circumference. The angels stated these particulars from a comparison

made with things of the like kind on our Earth, which they saw in

me, or in my memory. Their conclusions were formed by angelic ideas,

whereby are instantly known the measures of spaces and times, in a

just proportion relatively to spaces and times elsewhere. Angelic

ideas, which are spiritual, in such calculations immensely surpass

human ideas, which are natural.

THE FIFTH EARTH IN THE STARRY HEAVEN, AND ITS SPIRITS AND INHABITANTS.

168. I was led to yet another earth in the universe beyond our solar

system, and on this occasion also by changes of state continued for

nearly twelve hours. In company with me were several spirits and

angels from our Earth, with whom I conversed during this voyage or

progression. I was carried at times obliquely upwards and obliquely

downwards, continually towards the right, which in the other life is

towards the south. In two places only did I see spirits, and in one I

spoke with them. During this journey or progression I was permitted

to observe how immense was the Lord's heaven, which is designed for

angels and spirits; for from the parts uninhabited I was enabled

to conclude that it was so immense that, supposing there were many

myriads of earths, and on each earth as great a multitude of human

beings as on our own, there would still be a place of abode for them

to eternity, and it would never be filled. This I was enabled to

conclude from a comparison made with the [inhabited] extent of the

heaven which is about our Earth and designed for it, which extent was

so small relatively, as not to equal one ten-thousand-thousandth part

of the extent uninhabited.

169. When the angelic spirits who were from that earth came into view,

they accosted us, asking who we were, and what we wanted. We told them

that we were travelling, that we had been transported thither, and

that they had nothing to fear from us. For they were afraid that we

were of those who disturb them concerning God, faith, and kindred

subjects, on account of whom they had betaken themselves to that

quarter of their earth, shunning them as much as possible. We asked

them by what they were disturbed. They replied, by the idea of Three,

and by the idea of the Divine without the Human in God, when they yet

know and perceive that God is one, and that He is man. It was then

perceived that those who disturbed them, and whom they shunned, were

from our Earth: this was manifest also from this consideration, that

there are spirits from our Earth who thus wander about in the other

life, in consequence of their fondness for and delight in travelling,

which they have contracted in the world; for on other earths there is

no such custom of travelling as on ours. It was afterwards discovered

that they were monks, who had travelled on our globe from a desire

to convert the gentiles. We therefore told them that they did well to

shun them, because their intention was, not to teach, but to secure

gain and dominion; and that they strive by various means first to

captivate men's minds (_animi_), and afterwards to subject them to

themselves as slaves: moreover, that they did well in not suffering

their idea concerning God to be disturbed by such spirits. They said

further, that these spirits also confuse them by asserting that they

ought to have faith, and to believe what they say; but that their

reply to them is, that they do not know what faith or believing means,

since they perceive in themselves whether a thing be so or not. They

were of the Lord's celestial kingdom, where all know by interior

perception the truths which with us are called the truths of faith,

for they are in enlightenment from the Lord; but it is otherwise with

those who are in the spiritual kingdom. That the angelic spirits of

that earth were of the Lord's celestial kingdom, I could also see from

the flame whence their ideas flowed; for in the celestial kingdom the

light is flaming, and in the spiritual kingdom it is bright white.

They who are of the celestial kingdom, when the discourse is about

truths, say no more than Yea, yea, or Nay, nay, and never reason about

them whether they be so or not. These are they of whom the Lord says,

"_Let your discourse be Yea, yea, Nay, nay; what is beyond this is of

evil_" [(Matt. v. 37)]. Hence it was that those spirits said that they

did not know what it is to have faith or to believe. They consider

this to be like one saying to his companion, who with his own eyes

sees houses or trees, that he ought to have faith or to believe that

they are houses and trees, when he sees clearly that they are so. Such

are they who are of the Lord's celestial kingdom, and such were these

angelic spirits[aaa]. We told them that few on our Earth have interior

perception, because in their youth they learn truths, and do not

practise them. For man has two faculties, which are called the

understanding and the will; they who admit truths no further than into

the memory, and thence in some degree into the understanding, but not

into the life, that is, into the will, these, inasmuch as they cannot

be in any enlightenment or interior sight from the Lord, say that

those truths ought to be believed, or that man ought to have faith in

them; and they also reason about them whether they be truths or

not; nay, they are not willing that they should be perceived by any

interior sight, or by any enlightenment by the understanding. They say

this, because truths with them are without light from heaven, and

to those who see without light from heaven, falsities may appear as

truths, and truths as falsities. Hence so great blindness has fallen

on many on our Earth, that although a man does not practise truths or

live according to them, they say nevertheless that he may be saved by

faith alone, as if a man were not man from the life and according to

it, but from the knowledge of such things as belong to faith, apart

from the life. We afterwards conversed with them concerning the Lord,

concerning love to Him, love towards the neighbour, and regeneration;

saying, that loving the Lord consists in loving the precepts which are

from Him, that is, in living according to them from love[bbb]; that

love towards the neighbour consists in willing good and thence doing

good to a fellow-citizen, to one's country, to the church, to the

Lord's kingdom, not for the selfish end of being seen or acquiring

merit, but from the affection of good[ccc]. Concerning regeneration,

we observed that they who are being regenerated by the Lord, and

who commit truths immediately to the life, come into an interior

perception concerning them; but that those who receive truths first in

the memory, and afterwards will them and do them, are those who are in

faith; for they act from faith, which is then called conscience. These

things, they said, they perceived to be so, and therefore perceived

also what faith is. I conversed with them by means of spiritual ideas,

by which such subjects may be exhibited and comprehended in light.

[Footnote aaa: Heaven is distinguished into two kingdoms, one of which

is called the celestial kingdom, the other the spiritual kingdom,

nos. 3887, 4138. The angels in the celestial kingdom have vastly more

knowledge and wisdom than the angels in the spiritual kingdom, no.

2718. The celestial angels do not think and speak from faith, like the

spiritual angels, but from an internal perception that a thing is so,

nos. 202, 597, 607, 784, 1121, 1387, 1398, 1442, 1919, 7680, 7877,

8780. The celestial angels say only concerning the truths of faith,

Yea, yea, or Nay, nay, but the spiritual angels reason whether a thing

be so or not so, nos. 202, 337, 2715, 3246, 4448, 9166.]

[Footnote bbb: Loving the Lord means living according to His

commandments, nos. 10143, 10153, 10310, 10578, 10645.]

[Footnote ccc: Loving the neighbour consists in doing what is good,

just, and right, in every work and in every function, from the

affection of what is good, just, and right, nos. 8120, 8121, 8123,

10310, 10336. A life of love towards the neighbour is a life according

to the Lord's precepts, no. 3249.]

170. The spirits with whom I had now spoken were from the northern

part of their earth. I was afterwards led to others who were on the

western part. These also, wishing to examine who and what I was;

immediately said that there was nothing in me but evil, thinking that

thus I might be deterred from approaching nearer. I apperceived that

this was their manner of accosting all who come to them. But it was

given me to reply that I well knew it to be so, and that in them

likewise there was nothing but evil, by reason that every one is born

into evil, and therefore whatever comes from man, spirit, or angel,

as from what is his own, or from his proprium, is nothing but evil;

inasmuch as all the good that is in every one, is from the Lord.

Hence they apperceived that I was in the truth, and I was admitted to

converse with them. They then showed me their idea concerning evil in

man, and concerning good from the Lord, how they are separated from

each other. They placed one near the other, almost contiguous, but

still distinct, yet as if bound in an inexpressible manner, so that

the good led the evil, and restrained it, insomuch that it was not

allowed to act at pleasure; and that thus the good bent the evil in

whatever direction it desired, without the evil knowing anything of

it. In this manner they exhibited the dominion of good over evil,

and at the same time a state of freedom. They then asked how the Lord

appeared amongst the angels from our Earth. I said that He appeared

in the sun as a Man, encompassed therein with a fiery solar [sphere],

from which the angels in the heavens derive all light; and that the

heat which proceeds thence is the Divine Good, and that the light

which proceeds thence is the Divine Truth, both from the Divine Love,

which is the fiery [sphere] appearing around the Lord in that sun;

but that that sun only appears to the angels in heaven, and not to

the spirits who are beneath, since the latter are more remote from

the reception of the good of love and of the truth of faith, than the

angels who are in the heavens (see above, no. 40). It was given them

thus to inquire concerning the Lord, and concerning His appearance

before the angels from our Earth, because it pleased the Lord then to

become present among them, and to reduce into order the things which

had been disturbed there by the evil spirits of whom they complained.

The reason also why I was led thither, was in order that I might be an

eye-witness of these things.

171. There was then seen a dark cloud towards the east descending from

on high, which in its descent appeared by degrees full of light and

in the human form. At length this [human form] appeared in a flaming

radiance, encompassed with small stars of the same colour. Thus the

Lord presented Himself before the spirits with whom I was conversing.

At His presence all the spirits who were there were instantly

gathered together from every side; and when they were come, they were

separated, the good from the evil, the good to the right and the evil

to the left, and this in an instant as of their own accord. Those on

the right were arranged in order according to the quality of the good,

and those on the left according to the quality of the evil, with

them: they who were good remained to form among themselves a heavenly

society; but the evil were cast into the hells. Afterwards I saw that

that flaming radiance descended to the lower parts of the earth there

to a considerable depth, and then it appeared at one time in a flaming

[lustre] verging to luminosity, at another time in a luminosity

verging into obscurity, and at another in obscurity: and I was told by

the angels that that appearance is according to the reception of truth

from good, and of falsity from evil, with those who inhabit the lower

parts of that earth, and that the flaming radiance itself was subject

to no such variations. They also said, that the lower parts of that

earth were inhabited both by the good and by the evil; but that they

were thoroughly separated, to the end that the evil might be ruled

by the Lord through the good. They added, that the good are by turns

elevated thence into heaven by the Lord, and that others succeed in

their place, and so on perpetually. In that descent, the good were

separated from the evil in like manner, and all things were reduced

to order; for the evil, by various arts and cunning contrivances,

had intruded themselves into the dwellings of the good there, and had

infested them; and this was the cause of the present visitation. That

cloud, which in descending appeared by degrees full of light and in

the human form, and afterwards as a flaming radiance, was an angelic

society, in whose midst the Lord was. From this it was given me to

know what is meant by the Lord's words in the Gospels, where, speaking

of the Last Judgment, He says, "_That He would come with the angels

in the clouds of heaven, with glory and power_" [(Matt. xxiv. 30; Mark

xiii. 26; Luke xxi. 27)].

172. After this were seen some monkish spirits, those, namely,

who have already been spoken of as having been travelling monks or

missionaries in the world; and there was also seen a crowd of spirits

who were from that earth, most of them evil, whom they had drawn over

to their side, and led astray. These were seen on the eastern quarter

of that earth, from whence they had driven away the good, who betook

themselves to the northern side of the earth, and of whom we have

spoken above. That crowd, together with their seducers, were collected

together to the number of some thousands, and were separated; the evil

of that crowd were cast into the hells. It was also given me to speak

with one spirit who was a monk, and to ask him what he did there.

He replied that he taught them concerning the Lord. I asked, what

besides. He said, concerning heaven and hell. I asked, what further.

He said, concerning faith in all that he should say. I asked again,

if he taught anything else. He said, concerning the power of remitting

sins, and of opening and shutting heaven. He was then examined as to

what he knew concerning the Lord, the truths of faith, the remission

of sins, man's salvation, and heaven and hell; and it was discovered

that he knew scarcely anything, that he was in obscurity and falsity

concerning all and each of these subjects, and that he was possessed

solely by the lust of acquiring gain and dominion, which he had

contracted in the world and brought with him from thence. He was

therefore told that as he had, prompted by that lust, travelled

thus far, and as he was such in regard to doctrine, he could not but

deprive the spirits of that earth of heavenly light, and inflict on

them the darkness of hell, and thus cause hell, and not the Lord, to

have dominion with them. Moreover, he was cunning in seducing, but

stupid as to the things relating to heaven. As he was of such a

character, he was afterwards cast into hell. Thus the spirits of that

earth were freed of them.

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