Mrs. MARKHAM. I thought you wanted me to describe their clothing.
Mr. BALL. No. I wanted to know if that day when you were in there if
you saw anyone in there----
Mrs. MARKHAM. Number two.
Mr. BALL. What did you say when you saw number two?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Well, let me tell you. I said the second man, and they
kept asking me which one, which one. I said, number two. When I said
number two, I just got weak.
Mr. BALL. What about number two, what did you mean when you said number
two?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Number two was the man I saw shoot the policeman.
Mr. BALL. You recognized him from his appearance?
Mrs. MARKHAM. I asked--I looked at him. When I saw this man I wasn't
sure, but I had cold chills just run all over me.
Mr. BALL. When you saw him?
Mrs. MARKHAM. When I saw the man. But I wasn't sure, so, you see, I
told them I wanted to be sure, and looked at his face is what I was
looking at, mostly is what I looked at, on account of his eyes, the way
he looked at me. So I asked them if they would turn him sideways. They
did, and then they turned him back around, and I said the second, and
they said, which one, and I said number two. So when I said that, well,
I just kind of fell over. Everybody in there, you know, was beginning
to talk, and I don't know, just----
Mr. BALL. Did you recognize him from his clothing?
Mrs. MARKHAM. He had on a light short jacket, dark trousers. I looked
at his clothing, but I looked at his face, too.
Mr. BALL. Did he have the same clothing on that the man had that you
saw shoot the officer?
Mrs. MARKHAM. He had these dark trousers on.
Mr. BALL. Did he have a jacket or a shirt? The man that you saw shoot
Officer Tippit and run away, did you notice if he had a jacket on?
Mrs. MARKHAM. He had a jacket on when he done it.
Mr. BALL. What kind of a jacket, what general color of jacket?
Mrs. MARKHAM. It was a short jacket open in the front, kind of a
grayish tan.
Mr. BALL. Did you tell the police that?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, I did.
Mr. BALL. Did any man in the lineup have a jacket on?
Mrs. MARKHAM. I can't remember that.
Mr. BALL. Did this number two man that you mentioned to the police have
any jacket on when he was in the lineup?
Mrs. MARKHAM. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. What did he have on?
Mrs. MARKHAM. He had on a light shirt and dark trousers.
(Representative Ford is now in the Commission hearing room.)
Mr. BALL. Did you recognize the man from his clothing or from his face?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Mostly from his face.
Mr. BALL. Were you sure it was the same man you had seen before?
Mrs. MARKHAM. I am sure.
Mr. BALL. Now, what time of day was it that you saw this man in the
lineup?
Mrs. MARKHAM. I would say it was four, a little after.
Mr. BALL. That was four in the afternoon?
Mrs. MARKHAM. I was so upset I couldn't even tell you the time. In
fact, I wasn't interested in the time.
Mr. BALL. Yes.
Mr. DULLES. Could I ask just one question?
Mr. BALL. Yes.
Mr. DULLES. You referred to his eyes; they were rather striking. Can
you give any impression of how his eyes looked to you? I realize that
is a very vague question.
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes. He looked wild. They were glassy looking, because I
could see----
Mr. DULLES. He had no glasses on?
Mrs. MARKHAM. No. When we looked at each other, he just stared, just
like that. I just don't know. I just seen him--I would know the man
anywhere, I know I would.
Mr. DULLES. Thank you.
Mr. BALL. I have here an exhibit, Commission Exhibit 162, a jacket. Did
you ever see this before?
Mrs. MARKHAM. No; I did not.
Mr. BALL. Does it look like, anything like, the jacket the man had on?
Mrs. MARKHAM. It is short, open down the front. But that jacket it is a
darker jacket than that, I know it was.
Mr. BALL. You don't think it was as light a jacket as that?
Mrs. MARKHAM. No, it was darker than that, I know it was. At that
moment I was so excited----
Mr. BALL. I show you a shirt here, which is Exhibit 150. Did you ever
see a shirt the color of this?
Mrs. MARKHAM. The shirt that this man had, it was a lighter looking
shirt than that.
Mr. BALL. The man who shot Tippit?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir; I think it was lighter.
Mr. BALL. All right. I have some pictures here that I would like to
show you. I have Exhibits 521 and 522, which have been marked as
Exhibits. Here is one picture, 521. Do you recognize that as the sign
down?
Mrs. MARKHAM. This is the corner of Patton and 10th.
Mr. BALL. Patton and 10th.
Mrs. MARKHAM. This is on the corner of Patton and 10th.
Mr. BALL. Yes. Was the man anywhere near that corner when you saw him?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, he was.
Mr. BALL. After the shooting?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir; he was.
Mr. BALL. All right. Now, take this pen and put an X as to the point
when he looked at you and you looked at him.
Mrs. MARKHAM. He was right along here.
Mr. BALL. Put an X.
Mrs. MARKHAM. I don't know. I am too nervous.
Mr. BALL. At the time the man was standing at X in this picture, at
this location, which is shown in 521, where were you?
Mrs. MARKHAM. I was on the opposite corner, across over here, like this.
Mr. BALL. Were you as close to the curb as--were you close to the curb
at that time?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, I was.
Mr. DULLES. Where was the car, where this car is?
Mr. BALL. No, I have another picture I will show her. I have here
Exhibit 522; do you recognize the white house in the picture?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes.
Mr. BALL. And the driveway next to it?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Does that show the location of the police car at the time it
stopped?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir. That is the big old white house, 404.
Mrs. BALL. That is right.
Mrs. MARKHAM. 10th Street, and this driveway and this house.
Mr. DULLES. Will you give us an idea, Mr. Ball, as to where she said
she was on this picture? Was she over here?
Mr. BALL. We have a picture. There is a booklet here that has been
prepared by a succession of witnesses. We have a general diagram here
which I will show the witness at this time.
Mrs. Markham, there is a diagram here which shows 10th Street going in
an easterly and westerly direction, Patton running north and south.
(Marked Commission Exhibit No. 523 for identification.)
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Do you understand that?
Mrs. MARKHAM. This would be the corner I would be at.
Mr. BALL. No, this would be Patton. This is north and south. Jefferson
is down here. Can you locate yourself?
Mrs. MARKHAM. This is 10th?
Mr. BALL. That is 10th.
Mrs. MARKHAM. And this Patton?
Mr. BALL. That is right.
Mrs. MARKHAM. I was standing on the corner of 10th and Patton.
Mr. BALL. That is right. But which corner?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Northeast corner is where I was standing.
Mr. BALL. Northeast or northwest? This would be northeast and this
would be northwest. Here is where the squad car would be. Right there.
Here is 404.
Mrs. MARKHAM. It would be this corner then.
Mr. BALL. Well, that is northeast and that is northwest. Were you
kitty-cornered?
Mrs. MARKHAM. I was kitty-cornered from it like this.
Mr. BALL. Like that?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Well, this is northwest, this is northeast, southeast,
southwest, and here is the car. We are going down the street now.
Mrs. MARKHAM. It would be this--that would be on the opposite side.
Mr. BALL. That is right. Look at a number on that and tell me where you
were standing.
Mrs. MARKHAM. I was standing right at the curb.
Mr. BALL. Do you see a number?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Number 5.
Mr. BALL. Number 5 on this diagram would be indicating the place where
you would be standing, is that right?
Mrs. MARKHAM. I was standing on the opposite corner from that.
Mr. BALL. I know, but I have got to get you to tell me where you were
standing. Picture yourself going down Patton towards Jefferson.
Mrs. MARKHAM. Going down Patton?
Mr. BALL. You were coming from this direction. Your home was up here.
Mrs. MARKHAM. I was coming down Patton. It would be this corner.
Mr. BALL. That corner, all right. Take this pen and show your course
down the sidewalk.
Mrs. MARKHAM. Just draw it right on it?
Mr. BALL. Down to where you stood.
Mrs. MARKHAM. Right on the edge.
Mr. BALL. Is there a number there that shows where you were?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Near 5, is that right?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes.
Mr. DULLES. That is the northwest corner?
Mr. BALL. Northwest corner; that is the northwest corner. Here is a
picture. Do you recognize that?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. That is picture number 3 in the booklet. Does that show where
you were?
(Marked Commission Exhibit No. 524 for identification.)
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Where was the man shot?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Right here.
Mr. BALL. Put a mark where you first saw him. Mark that A. Then he went
which direction down the street?
Mrs. MARKHAM. He went this way.
Mr. BALL. In other words, he went in a direction--draw a line and then
put an arrow showing what direction.