Senator COOPER. Will you stand up and be sworn? Do you swear that
the testimony you shall give will be the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. McDONALD. I do.
Senator COOPER. You understand that the purpose of this inquiry is to
inquire into the circumstances surrounding the assassination of the
late President Kennedy?
Mr. McDONALD. Yes, sir; I do.
Senator COOPER. Today's hearings are to hear testimony of various
witnesses, including yourself, who were in the vicinity of the Texas
School Book Depository Building at the time of the assassination, and
because it is reported you apprehended Lee Harvey Oswald in the Texas
theatre.
Mr. McDONALD. Yes, sir.
Senator COOPER. Do you testify here voluntarily?
Mr. McDONALD. Yes, sir.
Senator COOPER. Do you have counsel with you?
Mr. McDONALD. No, sir.
Senator COOPER. Do you desire counsel?
Mr. McDONALD. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Mr. McDonald, where do you live?
Mr. McDONALD. 530 South Port Drive.
Mr. BALL. In Dallas?
Mr. McDONALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Where were you born?
Mr. McDONALD. Camden, Ark.
Mr. BALL. Did you go to school in Arkansas?
Mr. McDONALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. How far through school did you go?
Mr. McDONALD. Well, I finished through the 11th grade, took an
equivalent for a high school diploma, and I attended 1 year at Arkansas
State Teachers College in Conway.
Mr. BALL. What year was that?
Mr. McDONALD. 1948 and 1949.
Mr. BALL. What did you do after that?
Mr. McDONALD. Well, worked in a printing firm for awhile, after getting
out of college a year. Then I joined the Air Force. But in a break
between high school and college, I entered the Navy, in January 1946. I
served 22 months in the Navy, active duty.
Mr. BALL. Then you say in the 1950's you joined the Air Force?
Mr. McDONALD. Yes, sir; December 29, 1950.
Mr. BALL. How long were you in the Air Force?
Mr. McDONALD. Four years.
Mr. BALL. What work did you do in the Air Force?
Mr. McDONALD. I was a supply sergeant.
Mr. BALL. After that, what did you do?
Mr. McDONALD. I became a policeman in the Dallas Police Department.
Mr. BALL. That was in 1956?
Mr. McDONALD. March 3, 1955.
Mr. BALL. And you have been a police officer ever since?
Mr. McDONALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Were you on duty on March--November 22, 1963?
Mr. McDONALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What was your job that day?
Mr. McDONALD. Radio patrol.
Mr. BALL. What were your hours of duty?
Mr. McDONALD. From 7:30 a.m. to 3:30 p.m.
Mr. BALL. Did you ride alone or have a partner?
Mr. McDONALD. No, sir; I had a partner.
Mr. BALL. What is his name?
Mr. McDONALD. T. R. Gregory.
Mr. BALL. Were you cruising about 12:30 that day?
Mr. McDONALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. In what area?
Mr. McDONALD. On the Westmoreland Avenue and Falls Drive intersection.
Mr. BALL. Was your area, an area close to downtown Dallas or outside?
Mr. McDONALD. Outside, approximately 8 miles.
Mr. BALL. Did you get an order over the radio about that time to move
your car?
Mr. McDONALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What was the order?
Mr. McDONALD. Report to the vicinity of Elm and Houston Streets, code 3.
Mr. BALL. And did you know Officer Tippit?
Mr. McDONALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Was he also a radio patrol officer?
Mr. McDONALD. Yes, sir; he was.
Mr. BALL. Did he cruise alone or with a partner?
Mr. McDONALD. He was cruising alone.
Mr. BALL. Do you know what his area--the area assigned to him on that
day?
Mr. McDONALD. The southern part of Oak Cliff, nearing the city limits.
Mr. BALL. Was that farther out from the center of town than you?
Mr. McDONALD. Yes, sir; approximately 10 to 12 miles.
Mr. BALL. Did Tippit usually cruise alone, or did he ever have a
partner sometimes?
Mr. McDONALD. Well, working in the daylight hours, which we were
assigned that month, it is a custom to work alone--unless he had a
trainee, such as I. I don't believe he was a trainer.
Mr. BALL. In other words, you had a trainee with you, and that is the
reason you were not alone?
Mr. McDONALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you hear an order over the radio for cars in the outlying
district near the city limits, what they were to do?
Mr. McDONALD. They were to move in closer to the downtown area, but not
directly to the area.
Mr. BALL. You were ordered to move into the downtown area?
Mr. McDONALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And the cars that were cruising farther out were ordered to
move closer to the downtown area?
Mr. McDONALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you hear any other specific orders over the radio that
day--that morning, or about 12:30, 1 o'clock?
Mr. McDONALD. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. What did you do after you received those orders?
Mr. McDONALD. I applied my red lights and sirens, and went code 32, Elm
and Houston Streets.
Mr. BALL. About what time did you get there?
Mr. McDONALD. Approximately 10 minutes later.
Mr. BALL. What time would that be?
Mr. McDONALD. Approximately 12:40.
Mr. BALL. Where did you park your car?
Mr. McDONALD. On the right curb, Elm Street, before you enter the
triple underpass.
Mr. BALL. And how long did you stay there?
Mr. McDONALD. Approximately 35 minutes.
Mr. BALL. What were you doing there?
Mr. McDONALD. Well, after I left the car, my partner and I reported to
a supervisor, and he directed us to patrol the crowd and move the crowd
around Elm Street, and rope off the area.
Mr. BALL. Now, was your radio on?
Mr. McDONALD. Yes, sir. There were several police units around the
intersection, and all the radios were on. And after I had moved the
crowd around, went back to the entrance of the Texas School Book
Depository, I heard this over the police radio, of--the first thing I
heard was that President Kennedy had expired at Parkland Hospital.
And the next thing I heard was a voice over the radio that was not
familiar to police procedure. He was saying that an officer had been
shot, and that he was using car No. 10 radio. Of my own knowledge,
I knew that car was driven by Officer Tippit, and that that car was
assigned to his district.
Mr. BALL. Did he give you a location?
Mr. McDONALD. Yes, sir; 400 block of East 10th Street.
Mr. BALL. What did you do?
Mr. McDONALD. I told my partner we were not doing much good here, to go
to Oak Cliff, and see if we could help out over there, try to apprehend
the person that shot Tippit.
Mr. BALL. Did you?
Mr. McDONALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Where did you go in Oak Cliff?
Mr. McDONALD. Well, we got in the car and went underneath the triple
underpass and got on the Stemmons Expressway, which leads into the R.
L. Thornton Expressway. I believe we took the Jefferson exit and drove
up to the 400 block of East Jefferson.
Mr. BALL. Patton is about a block to the north of Jefferson?
Mr. McDONALD. Patton runs across Jefferson. Tenth and Patton.
Mr. BALL. Patton runs north and south?
Mr. McDONALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Tenth Street is a block north of Jefferson?
Mr. McDONALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. How did you happen to go to the 400 block on Jefferson?
Mr. McDONALD. I was stopped by other officers there. They wanted to
search a house. So I relieved my partner to go to help the supervisors
search this house, in the 400 block of East Jefferson. Then I went
around to the alleys, and started cruising the alley in my squad car.
Mr. BALL. And did you get a call over your radio to go to a certain
place?
Mr. McDONALD. Well, there was a report from the dispatcher that a
suspect was seen running into the public library at Marsalis and
Jefferson.
Mr. BALL. You went down there?
Mr. McDONALD. Yes, sir. I went directly to Denver Street, which is an
alley at that point. It is still designated as Denver Street. I parked
the squad car, took my shotgun, and went to the west basement entrance
to the public library, and ordered the people in the basement, in the
library outside. They came out with their hands up.
The boy immediately said that he had just run into the library to tell
the people that the President had been shot. He was a much younger
person than what was broadcast on description on the radio.
Mr. BALL. You had heard a broadcast?
Mr. McDONALD. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Of a description, of someone to look for?
Mr. McDONALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What did you hear?
Mr. McDONALD. White male, approximately 27 years old, 5 foot 10, weight
about 145 pounds, wearing light clothing.
Mr. BALL. When did you hear that? About what time?
Mr. McDONALD. It came out on the radio as I was coming to Oak Cliff.
There was another general description given on the way to the Texas
School Book Depository at Elm and Houston Streets. But it was a vague
description.
Mr. BALL. The first description that you heard of a man to look for was
on the way downtown to the Texas School Book Depository?
Mr. McDONALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What was that description?
Mr. McDONALD. White male, approximately 27, 29 years old, and he had a
white shirt on, weighed about 160 pounds.
Mr. BALL. And that was about 12:40 you got that?
Mr. McDONALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Now, this later description you got was what point in your
travel to Oak Cliff?
Mr. McDONALD. This was approximately 1:20, or 1:17.
Mr. BALL. That was after you had heard that Tippit--that the officer
had been shot?
Mr. McDONALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And what was that description?
Mr. McDONALD. Well, it was 5 foot 10, white male, 27 years old, wearing
a white shirt.
Mr. BALL. Now, as you were cruising the alleys, you had gone into
the library basement, and gone to cruising the alleys, did you hear
something else over the radio that drew your attention to another
part----
Mr. McDONALD. Just to report to the public library.
Mr. BALL. After that. Did you receive a report?
Mr. McDONALD. After I was satisfied that this teenager that had run
into the library didn't fit the description, I went back to my squad
car, put my shotgun back in the rack. Just as I got into the squad car,
it was reported that a suspect was seen running into the Texas Theatre,
231 West Jefferson.
So I reported to that location Code 3. This is approximately seven
blocks from the library, seven blocks west.
Mr. BALL. Did you go down there with your partner?
Mr. McDONALD. No, sir; I had let my partner out on arrival; my first
arrival in the 400 block.
Mr. BALL. He was on foot?
Mr. McDONALD. Yes, sir; I didn't see him any more that day.
Mr. BALL. You went down to the Texas Theatre?
Mr. McDONALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And that is what address?
Mr. McDONALD. 231 West Jefferson.
Mr. BALL. What did you do?
Mr. McDONALD. Well, when I got to the front of the theater there was
several police cars already at the scene, and I surmised that officers
were already inside the theater.
So I decided to go to the rear, in the alley, and seal off the rear. I
parked my squad car. I noticed there were three or four other officers
standing outside with shotguns guarding the rear exits. There were
three other officers at the rear door. I joined them. We walked into
the rear exit door over the alley.
Mr. BALL. What were their names?
Mr. McDONALD. Officer Hawkins, T. A. Hutson, and C. T. Walker. And
as we got inside the door, we were met by a man that was in civilian
clothes, a suit, and he told us that the man that acted suspiciously as
he ran into the theater was sitting downstairs in the orchestra seats,
and not in the balcony. He was sitting at the rear of the theater alone.
Officer Walker and I went to the exit curtains that is to the left of
the movie screen. I looked into the audience. I saw the person that the
shoe store salesman had pointed out to us.
Mr. BALL. Were the lights on or off?
Mr. McDONALD. The lights were up, and the movie was playing at this
time.
Mr. BALL. And could you see to the rear of the theater?
Mr. McDONALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. You could see the man. Did the civilian point out to you the
man in one of the rear seats?
Mr. McDONALD. He didn't point out personally. He was pointing out the
suspect to another officer with him on the right of the stage, just
right of the movie screen.
Mr. BALL. What did you do then?
Mr. McDONALD. Well, after seeing him, I noticed the other people in
the theater--there was approximately 10 or 15 other people seated
throughout the theater. There were two men sitting in the center, about
10 rows from the front.
I walked up the left center aisle into the row behind these two men,
and Officer C. T. Walker was behind me. When I got to these two men,
I told them to get on their feet. They got up. I searched them for a
weapon.
I looked over my shoulder and the suspect that had been pointed out to
me. He remained seated without moving, just looking at me.
Mr. BALL. Why did you frisk these two men in the center of the theater?
Mr. McDONALD. I wanted to make sure that I didn't pass anything or miss
anybody. I wanted to make sure I didn't overlook anybody or anything.
Mr. BALL. And you still kept your eye on the suspect?
Mr. McDONALD. Yes, sir. He was to my back. I was looking over my
shoulder at him.
Mr. BALL. Was he sitting nearest the right or the left aisle as you
came in?
Mr. McDONALD. The right center aisle. He was in the second seat.
Mr. BALL. What did you do then?
Mr. McDONALD. After I was satisfied that these two men were not armed
or had a weapon on them, I walked out of this row, up to the right
center aisle toward the suspect. And as I walked up there, just at a
normal gait, I didn't look directly at him, but I kept my eye on him
and any other persons. And to my left was another man and I believe a
woman was with him. But he was further back than the suspect.
And just as I got to the row where the suspect was sitting, I stopped
abruptly, and turned in and told him to get on his feet. He rose
immediately, bringing up both hands. He got this hand about shoulder
high, his left hand shoulder high, and he got his right hand about
breast high. He said, "Well, it is all over now."
As he said this, I put my left hand on his waist and then his hand went
to the waist. And this hand struck me between the eyes on the bridge of
the nose.
Mr. BALL. Did he cock his fist?
Mr. McDONALD. Yes, sir; knocking my cap off.
Mr. BALL. Which fist did he hit you with?
Mr. McDONALD. His left fist.
Mr. BALL. What happened then?
Mr. McDONALD. Well, whenever he knocked my hat off, any normal reaction
was for me to go at him with this hand.
Mr. BALL. Right hand?
Mr. McDONALD. Yes. I went at him with this hand, and I believe I struck
him on the face, but I don't know where. And with my hand, that was on
his hand over the pistol.
Mr. BALL. Did you feel the pistol?
Mr. McDONALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Which hand was--was his right hand or his left hand on the
pistol?
Mr. McDONALD. His right hand was on the pistol.
Mr. BALL. And which of your hands?
Mr. McDONALD. My left hand, at this point.