Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. DULLES. From that door through which you eventually went through
and then saw Oswald?
Mr. BAKER. I would say that was approximately 15, 20 feet, something
like that.
Mr. BELIN. All right. On Exhibit 499 is this a picture of the lunchroom?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir; it is.
Mr. BELIN. Do you know what direction the camera is pointing to take
this picture?
Mr. BAKER. It would be pointed eastward.
Mr. BELIN. All right. I see a coke machine off on the left. When you
saw Oswald after you got to this doorway inside the lunchroom, had he
gone as far as the coke machine?
Mr. BAKER. I didn't notice the coke machine or any item in the
room there. All I was looking at was the man, and he seemed to be
approximately 20 feet down there from me.
Mr. BELIN. As you got to the doorway which on Exhibit 497 is marked as
number, what number is that, you are referring to this number 24 here?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Now, with relation to Exhibit 497 perhaps you can try to
trace your route as you came out from the stairway, as to the route you
took and the point you were when you first caught a glimpse of some
movement through that window or door?
Mr. BAKER. At the upper portion of this stairway leading to the second
floor, I was just stepping out on to the second floor when I caught
this glimpse of this man through this doorway.
Mr. BELIN. Do you want to put a spot there, with the letter "B" at the
point you believe you were when you were looking through that door? You
put the letter "B" on Exhibit 497 when you first saw the movement.
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. And then you, from that point, could you kind of trace your
route to the----
Mr. DULLES. Could I ask one question before you ask this question, and
this is a bit of a leading question, and think carefully.
If Oswald had been coming down the stairs and going into the lunchroom
would he have been following the course insofar as you saw a course,
that he--that you saw him follow?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir. The reason I say that, this hallway to the
right----
Mr. BELIN. By the right you mean the hallway that goes to the--this
is----
Mr. BAKER. This is a hallway right here.
Mr. BELIN. It is a hallway that has the number 27 on it?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir; from what I understand these are offices in there.
Mr. DULLES. Yes.
Mr. BAKER. And he had no business in there and the lunchroom would be
the only place that he would be going, and there is a door out here
that you can get out and to the other part of the building.
Mr. BELIN. I think Mr. Dulles' question relates to whether or not any
person would have taken a stairway or elevator to have gotten to that
point, is that correct?
Mr. DULLES. Yes; that is correct. I am clear as you come up the stairs
you take a certain course you would go into the lunchroom.
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. DULLES. I am not quite clear as to where you would end up on the
second floor as you come down the stairs, is it the same point?
Mr. BELIN. Mr. Dulles, if you will look on Exhibit 497, the stairway
appears to be the same stairway. You see the letter, the arrow, 21,
points to the stairway going up to the third floor which, of course,
would be the same stairway going down from the third floor and on the
building.
Mr. DULLES. You would cross if you were going up and down, you would
cross right there at the same point?
Mr. BELIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. DULLES. And if a man were going up the stairs and then going to the
lunchroom and then coming down the stairs and going to the lunchroom,
he would be approximately following the same course from the time
he got off the stairs and went into that room before you get to the
lunchroom.
Mr. BELIN. Yes, sir.
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. BELIN. Officer Baker, you had just marked on Exhibit 497 point
"B" where you thought you were at about the time you caught a glimpse
of something, either through a door or through the window in the door
marked 23, is that correct?
Mr. BAKER. That is correct, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Could you trace your route from point "B" to the doorway 23,
if you would, sir.
Mr. BAKER. I ran right straight across here and through this doorway
and this is approximately where, I would say 23 here, is approximately
where I looked through this lunchroom and saw a man on down here.
Mr. BELIN. All right. I am going to put an arrow at that point on
Exhibit 497, and this arrow in pen, I am going to put a "B-1" and at
that arrow which is just to the left of the circle with the number 24
in it you say you then looked through the doorway and saw a man in the
lunchroom, right?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir; walking away from me.
Mr. BELIN. Walking away from you. And then where did you move from
point "B-1"?
Mr. BAKER. I moved on to this position 24 right here in this doorway.
Mr. BELIN. All right. I am going to put--you have put an "X" there,
and I am going to put that on Exhibit 497 as an arrow pointing to it,
with "B-2". Is this where you stood when you called to the man to come
back to you?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you move from that time until the man came up to you?
Mr. BAKER. As I called, I remember moving forward a little bit and
meeting him right here in this doorway.
Mr. BELIN. As you called you say you remembered moving forward and
meeting him right in the doorway which would be marked with the arrow
with number 24 on it on Exhibit 497, is that right?
Mr. BAKER. That is right, sir.
Mr. BELIN. After you got there, did you move until the man came up to
you?
Mr. BAKER. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you notice what clothes the man was wearing as he came
up to you?
Mr. BAKER. At that particular time I was looking at his face, and it
seemed to me like he had a light brown jacket on and maybe some kind of
white-looking shirt.
Anyway, as I noticed him walking away from me, it was kind of dim in
there that particular day, and it was hanging out to his side.
Mr. BELIN. Handing you what has been marked as Commission Exhibit 150,
would this appear to be anything that you have ever seen before?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir; I believe that is the shirt that he had on when he
came--I wouldn't be sure of that. It seemed to me like that other shirt
was a little bit darker than that whenever I saw him in the homicide
office there.
Mr. BELIN. What about when you saw him in the School Book Depository
Building, does this look familiar as anything he was wearing, if you
know?
Mr. BAKER. I couldn't say whether that was--it seemed to me it was a
light-colored brown but I couldn't say it was that or not.
Mr. DULLES. Lighter brown did you say, I am just asking what you said.
I couldn't quite hear.
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir; all I can remember it was in my recollection of it
it was a light brown jacket.
Mr. BELIN. Are you referring to this Exhibit 150 as being similar to
the jacket or similar to the shirt that you saw or, if not, similar to
either one?
Mr. BAKER. Well, it would be similar in color to it--I assume it was a
jacket, it was hanging out. Now, I was looking at his face and I wasn't
really paying any attention. After Mr. Truly said he knew him, so I
didn't pay any attention to him, so I just turned and went on.
Mr. BELIN. Now, you did see him later at the police station, is that
correct?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Was he wearing anything that looked like Exhibit 150 at the
police station?
Mr. BAKER. He did have a brown-type shirt on that was out.
Mr. BELIN. Did it appear to be similar to any clothing you had seen
when you saw him at the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. BAKER. I could have mistaken it for a jacket, but to my
recollection it was a little colored jacket, that is all I can say.