Representative BOGGS. You mean where he was?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir. There is a door there with a glass, it seemed to
me like about a 2 by 2, something like that, and then there is another
door which is 6 foot on over there, and there is a hallway over there
and a hallway entering into a lunchroom, and when I got to where I
could see him he was walking away from me about 20 feet away from me in
the lunchroom.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do?
Mr. BAKER. I hollered at him at that time and said, "Come here." He
turned and walked right straight back to me.
Mr. BELIN. Where were you at the time you hollered?
Mr. BAKER. I was standing in the hallway between this door and the
second door, right at the edge of the second door.
Mr. BELIN. He walked back toward you then?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. I hand you what has been marked Commission Exhibit 497
which appears to be a diagram of the second floor of the School Book
Depository, and you will notice on this diagram there are circles with
arrows. I want you to state, if you will, what number or the arrow
approximates the point at which you were standing when you told him to
"Come here". Is there a number on there at all or not?
Mr. BAKER. This 24 would be the position where I was standing.
Mr. BELIN. The arrow which is represented by No. 24, is that correct?
Mr. BAKER. That is correct.
Mr. BELIN. On Exhibit 497. When you first saw him in which direction
was he walking?
Mr. BAKER. He was walking east.
Mr. BELIN. Was--his back was away from you, or not, as you first saw
him?
Mr. BAKER. As I first caught that glimpse of him, or as I saw him,
really saw him?
Mr. BELIN. As you really saw him.
Mr. BAKER. He was walking away from me with his back toward me.
Mr. DULLES. Can I suggest if you will do this, put on there where the
officer was and where Lee Oswald was, or the man who turned out to be
Lee Oswald, and which direction he was walking in. I think that is
quite important.
Mr. BELIN. Yes, sir. We are going to get to that with one more
question, if I can, sir. When you saw him, he then turned around, is
that correct, and then walked back toward you?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Was he carrying anything in his hands?
Mr. BAKER. He had nothing at that time.
Mr. BELIN. All right. Were you carrying anything in either of your
hands?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir; I was.
Mr. BELIN. What were you carrying?
Mr. BAKER. I had my revolver out.
Mr. BELIN. When did you take your revolver out?
Mr. BAKER. As I was starting up the stairway.
Mr. BELIN. All right. Now, turning to Exhibit 497, if you would
approximate on Exhibit 497 with a pen the point at which you saw this
man in the lunch room when you told him to turn around.
Mr. DULLES. Could we get first where he first saw him.
Representative BOGGS. You have that already.
Mr. DULLES. I don't think you have it on the chart where he was.
Mr. BELIN. This is when he first saw him after he got in the room, sir.
If I can go off the record.
Mr. DULLES. What I wanted to get is where he first saw him as he was
standing down here, as he was going up the stairs and stopped and then
in what direction he was--he seemed to be moving at that time before he
saw.
Mr. BELIN. Just answer the question, if you will. Where were you when
you first caught a glimpse of this man?
Mr. BAKER. I was just coming up these stairs just around this corner
right here.
Mr. BELIN. All right. You were coming up the stairs at the point on
Exhibit 497 where there are the letters "DN" marking down.
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. And you saw something move through a door which is marked as
what number on Exhibit 497?
Mr. DULLES. Where was he when you first saw him?
Mr. BAKER. At this doorway right here, this 23.
Mr. BELIN. At 23.
Representative BOGGS. May I ask a couple of questions because I have to
go?
Mr. BELIN. Surely.
Representative BOGGS. Were you suspicious of this man?
Mr. BAKER. No, sir; I wasn't.
Representative BOGGS. And he came up to you, did he say anything to you?
Mr. BAKER. Let me start over. I assumed that I was suspicious of
everybody because I had my pistol out.
Representative BOGGS. Right.
Mr. BAKER. And as soon as I saw him, I caught a glimpse of him and I
ran over there and opened that door and hollered at him.
Representative BOGGS. Right.
Mr. DULLES. He had not seen you up to that point probably?
Mr. BAKER. I don't know whether he had or not.
Representative BOGGS. He came up to you?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir; and when I hollered at him he turned around and
walked back to me.
Representative BOGGS. Right close to you?
Mr. BAKER. And we were right here at this position 24, right here in
this doorway.
Representative BOGGS. Right. What did you say to him?
Mr. BAKER. I didn't get anything out of him. Mr. Truly had come up to
my side here, and I turned to Mr. Truly and I says, "Do you know this
man, does he work here?" And he said yes, and I turned immediately and
went on out up the stairs.
Mr. BELIN. Then you continued up the stairway?
Representative BOGGS. Let me ask one other question. You later, when
you recognized this man as Lee Oswald, is that right, saw pictures of
him?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir. I had occasion to see him in the homicide office
later that evening after we got through with Parkland Hospital and then
Love Field and we went back to the City Hall and I went up there and
made this affidavit.
Representative BOGGS. After he had been arrested?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. DULLES. Could you tell us anything more about his appearance, what
he was doing, get an impression of the man at all? Did he seem to be
hurrying, anything of that kind?
Mr. BAKER. Evidently he was hurrying because at this point here, I was
running, and I ran on over here to this door.
Mr. BELIN. What door number on that?
Mr. BAKER. This would be 23.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Mr. BAKER. And at that position there he was already down here some 20
feet away from me.
Representative BOGGS. When you saw him, was he out of breath, did he
appear to have been running or what?
Mr. BAKER. It didn't appear that to me. He appeared normal you know.
Representative BOGGS. Was he calm and collected?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir. He never did say a word or nothing. In fact, he
didn't change his expression one bit.
Mr. BELIN. Did he flinch in anyway when you put the gun up in his face?
Mr. BAKER. No, sir.
Mr. DULLES. There is no testimony that he put the gun up in his face.
Mr. BAKER. I had my gun talking to him like this.
Mr. DULLES. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. How close was your gun to him if it wasn't the face whatever
part of the body it was?
Mr. BAKER. About as far from me to you.
Mr. BELIN. That would be about how far?
Mr. BAKER. Approximately 3 feet.
Mr. BELIN. Did you notice, did he say anything or was there any
expression after Mr. Truly said he worked here?
Mr. BAKER. At that time I never did look back toward him. After he
says, "Yes, he works here," I turned immediately and run on up, I
halfway turned then when I was talking to Mr. Truly.
Representative BOGGS. That question about time I would like to
establish.
How long would you say it was from the time that you first heard the
shots until that episode occurred?