Mr. BELIN. Did he fill it out in front of you, or not?
Mr. TRULY. Yes; he did. And he told me--I asked him about experience
that he had had, or where he had worked, and he said he had just served
his term in the Marine Corps and had received an honorable discharge,
and he listed some things of an office nature that he had learned to do
in the Marines.
I questioned him about any past activities. I asked him if he had ever
had any trouble with the police, and he said, no. So thinking that he
was just out of the Marines, I didn't check any further back. I didn't
have anything of a permanent nature in mind for him. He looked like a
nice young fellow to me--he was quiet and well mannered. He used the
word "sir", you know, which a lot of them don't do at this time.
So I told him if he would come to work on the morning of the 16th, it
was the beginning of a new pay period. So he filled out his withholding
slip, with the exception of the number of dependents.
He asked me if I would hold that for 3 or 4 days, that he is expecting
a baby momentarily.
So some 4 days or so later--I don't remember the exact day--he told me
that he had this new baby, and he wanted to add one dependent.
He finished filling it out. And I sent it up to Mr. Campbell who makes
out the payroll for the company.
Mr. BELIN. Now, on October 15th you saw him fill out the application
form for employment in his own writing?
Mr. TRULY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. You also saw him fill out the withholding slip, except for
the number of exemptions, in his own writing, is that correct?
Mr. TRULY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Any other conversation that you can remember from your
meeting on October 15th?
Mr. TRULY. Well, he told me that he needed a job. He said he had a wife
and child to support. And he also repeated that he was expecting a
child in a few days.
And I told Lee Oswald that I had some work, that if he could fit in,
of a temporary nature, we could put him on. But I didn't have anything
in mind of a permanent job at that time, because I didn't have any
openings for a permanent person. And he said he would be glad to have
any type of work I would give him, because he did need--and he stressed
he really needed a job to support his family.
Mr. BELIN. Anything else from that conversation on October 15th?
Mr. TRULY. Nothing that I can recall, except that he seemed to be
grateful that I was giving him the chance of a little extra work, if
you want to call it that.
He left, and I didn't see him any more until the morning of the 16th.
Mr. BELIN. What were his hours of work to be?
Mr. TRULY. His hours were from 8 in the morning until 4:45 in the
afternoon.
His lunch period was from 12 to 12:45.
Mr. BELIN. Did you have a time clock there that they punch or not?
Mr. TRULY. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. The next morning, do you know whether or not he came to work?
Mr. TRULY. He came to work the next morning. I told him what his duties
were to be--would be filling book orders. And I told Mr. Shelley, who
is on that floor and has charge of the miscellaneous department.
Now, this particular thing as to whether I called a boy or Mr. Shelley
did--anyway, we put Lee Oswald with another worker who was experienced
in filling orders. This boy showed him the location of the various
publishers' stock. He worked with him, it seems to me, like only an
hour or two, and then he started filling orders by himself. And from
then on he worked alone.
He would occasionally ask the other boys where certain stock items were
when he couldn't find them. But he was filling small parcel post and
a few freight orders for the various schools--as they would come down
from the office.
Mr. BELIN. Well, could you describe how his work progressed as he was
working with you?
Mr. TRULY. Well, he seemed to catch on and learn the location of the
stock. We have several thousand titles of books in our warehouse. But
he was filling mostly one or two publishers' orders.
Mr. BELIN. What publishers were those?
Mr. TRULY. The main publisher was Scott, Foresman and Co.
Now, they have quite a lot of small orders, all through the year. They
are one of our biggest publishers. So it kept him busy filling mostly
their orders, plus some of the smaller publishers. Possibly he filled
some of Gregg Publishing Co. and others. But when he would run out of
Scott, Foresman orders, he would pick up other orders that might have
had several publishers' books on the same order.
Incidentally, not only Scott, Foresman orders were billed separately.
There would be other publishers' orders on the same invoice.
Mr. BELIN. Well, perhaps you might explain to the Commission just what
exactly the nature of your business is, and how an employee would go
about filling orders.
Mr. TRULY. We are agents for a number of publishers. We furnish offices
for those who desire them in Texas. And our business is shipping,
inventorying, collecting, doing all the bookkeeping work for the
various publishers' books.
Now, we have--most of the publishers' stock is lined up alphabetically
by titles or by stock numbers or code numbers, whichever determines
that.
And the location of the books--each publisher's books are to
themselves. They are not mixed in with several other publishers on the
various floors.
On the first floor we have bin stock, shelf stock, we fill a lot of
small orders from.
And then in the basement the same.
The fifth and the sixth floor, and part of the seventh floor is
overflow stock. It is reserve stock.
But the boys have to go to those floors all during the day to pick up
stock and bring it to the first floor in order to process and complete
the orders for the checker.
Mr. DULLES. What would reserve stock mean?
Mr. TRULY. Actually it is not reserve stock--it is not surplus either.
It is part of our stock. But we can carry a limited amount only on the
first floor where we do our shipping. So they may get an order for a
hundred copies of a certain book and there may only be 10 or 15 or 20
on the shelf on the first floor. They will have to go upstairs and get
a carton or two. And they replenish the first floor stock from that.
And many of our freight orders are filled entirely from our reserve
stock. And they bring them to the first floor. All orders reach the
first floor, where they are checked and processed and packed and
shipped from that floor.
Mr. BELIN. Where, generally, are Scott, Foresman books kept?
Mr. TRULY. On the first floor and the sixth floor. We have a large
quantity of their books on the sixth floor.
Mr. BELIN. And this is the area where Lee Harvey Oswald worked?
Mr. TRULY. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. That publisher?
Mr. TRULY. That publisher. He had occasion to go to the sixth floor
quite a number of times every day, each day, after books.
Mr. BELIN. Now, when an order would come in, how would it get to the
individual employee, so the employee would go out and pick out the
books?
Mr. TRULY. The orders came into our office and were processed by our
girls, priced and billed by the bill clerks, and then were sent down
a little chute to the first floor, a little dumbwaiter, regardless of
publisher.
The boys would take them off of this dumbwaiter and carry them over on
to a little table near the checker stand.
Various ones would sort out the publishers--sort out the orders by
publishers.
Scott Foresman could be here, there would be a stock of Gregg and
Southwestern over here, we have a number of small publishers, maybe we
would group them altogether. And the boys usually know which particular
orders they are supposed to fill from, because they know the books,
they can tell.
On each order it says, "SF" for Scott, Foresman on each invoice and so
forth.
Mr. BELIN. Do they just pick up the piece of paper for the order and
carry them around with them?
Mr. TRULY. That is right. Most of them use a clipboard. They may have
several orders at a time on the clipboard. That saves them going back
to the table continually for one order. These orders amount from
anything to $3 or $4 to $300 or $400, on up.
But usually if a boy is filling Scott, Foresman's orders, for instance,
and he sees half a dozen over there, he will pick up maybe that many.
But during our busy season, when we have stacks and stacks of orders on
the table, they don't try to put them all on a clipboard, they take a
few at a time--when they go to the sixth floor after stock, they try to
be certain what they need for several orders at one trip.
Mr. BELIN. Who else worked on Scott, Foresman other than Lee Harvey
Oswald?
Mr. TRULY. Well, I assume that all of our boys, all of our order
fillers have worked at some time or other, because when the boys finish
up the stocks they are working, the orders they are filling, if there
is anything left, regardless of publisher, they go fill it.
But Scott, Foresman was one of our publishers that I would say would be
easiest for a new man to learn how to fill.
And we have a lot of those orders.
You can give a new man those orders, once he understands a little about
the alphabetical arrangement, the location of the stock, and he can go
ahead and fill orders, and you won't have to keep showing him things.
They are easier to fill.
Usually the boys that fill a lot of the other orders are the boys that
have had more experience overall, they have been there some time, and
they will know the general location of all the stock, and it is just
easier for an experienced man to fill some other orders.
Mr. BELIN. When they fill the orders, they go and get the books, and
bring them down to your wrapping and mailing section?
Mr. TRULY. That is right. And they are checked to see that they are
in correct quantities and titles and called for on the order, or the
invoice.
Then they are weighed up on parcel post scales, if they go by parcel
post, or they are processed over on the floor if they are big enough
for freight.
Mr. BELIN. And, as I understand it, they would first look to see if the
title would be on the first floor in your bins, and then only if it
wasn't on the first floor would they go up to some of the upper floors
with your reserve stock, is that correct?
Mr. TRULY. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. Anything else you can think of with regard to the particular
nature of the type of work that Lee Harvey Oswald did when he was
working for your company?
Mr. TRULY. Nothing--except that we have occasionally--we would check
the number of orders that each boy filled per day, to see if he is
doing a day's work. And each invoice which is the billing of the order,
has a little section for a checker's number. And the order filler's
number. Our checker periodically would count at the end of the day the
number of orders that each order filler filled that day.
We could tell at that time whether some of them were doing much more
work than others.
And we also kept a list of mistakes that he catches a boy making, such
as filling the wrong quantity of books, or the wrong title. We didn't
do that every day, because it is a top heavy thing, and if we have to
keep a check on your boys all the time, it is not worthwhile.
Mr. BELIN. What did you find generally--would you classify Lee Harvey
Oswald as an average employee--above average, or below average employee?
Mr. TRULY. I would say for the nature of the work and the time he was
there, the work that he did was a bit above average. I wasn't on that
floor constantly. The boy, from all reports to me, and what I have seen
kept working and talked little to anybody else. He just kept moving.
And he did a good day's work.
Mr. BELIN. What was his pay?
Mr. TRULY. $1.25 an hour.
Mr. BELIN. 5-day week?
Mr. TRULY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Did he miss many days of work?
Mr. TRULY. We had no record of him missing any days.
Mr. BELIN. By the way, was your company open on Armistice Day, November
11th, or not? If you know.
Mr. TRULY. We usually are closed on that day.
Now, I just cannot remember whether we were closed that day or not.
Mr. BELIN. I hand you what has been marked Commission Exhibit No. 496,
which appears to be a photostatic copy of a document, and I ask you to
state if you know what that is.
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 496 for
identification.)
Mr. TRULY. This is a copy of the application blank that Oswald filled
out. I am not familiar with his handwriting, because he didn't do
anything that we have records of. All the work that he ever did was put
his number or something.
Mr. BELIN. Well, my first question is this: Is this particular form a
form of your company?
Mr. TRULY. That is one form; yes. We changed it a little bit, and this
might have been just one that I pulled out. I can't recall whether it
is the one we use now or the one we did use.
Mr. BELIN. Well, was this a form that you were using at about the time
he came for employment?
Mr. TRULY. Yes.
(At this point, Representative Ford entered the hearing room.)
Mr. BELIN. Did you see him fill this out? Was it in your office or not?
Mr. TRULY. Yes. He was sitting opposite me, and he filled it out on my
desk.
Mr. BELIN. He filled this Exhibit 496 out on your desk?
Mr. TRULY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. At this time we offer in evidence Exhibit 496.
495 as yet has not been offered. And I don't know if 494 has been
offered or not.
But, in the event it has not, we offer that in evidence.
Mr. McCLOY. It may be admitted.
(The documents heretofore marked for identification as Commission
Exhibits Nos. 494, 495, and 496 were received in evidence.)
Mr. BELIN. Mr. Truly, are there any other observations you can give
about Lee Harvey Oswald as an employee during the month of October
1963, or during the month of November, prior to November 22, 1963?
Mr. TRULY. Nothing that I can recall.
I would speak to him in the morning when I would come through, and I
would say, "Good morning, Lee," and he would say, "Good morning, sir."
I would ask him how he was. Occasionally I would ask about his baby,
and he would usually smile a big smile when I asked him how his new
baby was. And that was just about the extent of my conversation that I
can remember with the boy.
But I usually saw him every morning as I would come through. He would
be working around the front part of the Scott, Foresman bins and shelf
space.
Mr. BELIN. Did you ever see whether or not he seemed to strike up any
friendship or acquaintanceship with the other employees?
Mr. TRULY. No; I never noticed that anywheres. In fact, I would be
inclined--well--I never saw him with anyone else, except occasionally
talking, maybe asking where books were or something.
I don't know what he would say. But very little conversation he had
with anyone.
And he worked by himself. His job was something that he needed no help
with, other than to ask occasionally for stock. It wasn't a teamwork
job at all.
Consequently, he didn't have much occasion to talk with the other boys.
I thought it was a pretty good trait at the time, because occasionally
you have to spread your boys out and say, "Quit talking so much, let's
get to work."
And it seemed to me like he paid attention to his job.
Mr. BELIN. Did you notice whether or not he brought his lunch to work
generally?
Mr. TRULY. I never was aware that he brought a lunch. I would see him
occasionally in the shipping department eating some little snack or
something--didn't pay much attention. Offhand, it seemed to be not too
much--a Coca-Cola, Dr. Pepper, and some little thing.
Maybe he would be sitting there reading a book or a newspaper.
Mr. BELIN. You would see him occasionally reading a newspaper at the
lunch hour?
Mr. TRULY. I am sure so; yes.
And occasionally--I didn't always go to lunch at 12--usually a
little after. And he would have to pass my door to go out the front.
Occasionally I had seen the boy go out, and maybe he would be gone long
enough to get across the street and back, with something in his hand.
I seem to recall possibly a newspaper, maybe potato chips or something
like that.
Mr. BELIN. Did you ever have any discussions with him about politics or
anything like that?
Mr. TRULY. Never.
Mr. BELIN. Prior to November 22, did you have any discussion with him
about the Presidential motorcade, or hear him talk to anyone about it?
Mr. TRULY. I never heard him talk to anyone, and I didn't talk to him
myself.
Mr. BELIN. Any other things about Lee Harvey Oswald prior to November
22 that you can think of?
Mr. TRULY. Offhand I cannot recall a thing.
Just like I said--he seemed to go about his business in a quiet way,
didn't talk much, seemed to be doing a satisfactory job.
Mr. BELIN. If you turn behind you, you will see Commission Exhibit No.
362, and it appears to be a floor plan which is entitled, "Texas School
Book Depository." You see the room marked Mr. Truly's office?
Mr. TRULY. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. Does that appear to accurately depict where your office is
located? This is the front of the building here at the top.
Mr. TRULY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. And it was in the place marked Mr. Truly's office that Lee
Harvey Oswald filled out in front of you on your desk Exhibit 496?
Mr. TRULY. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. And also the withholding slip?
Mr. TRULY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Now I want to take you to the morning of November 22d.
First let me ask you when you first heard your employees discussing
the fact that the motorcade would be going by the Texas School Book
Depository? Was that first on the morning of November 22d that you
heard that, or at any prior date?
Mr. TRULY. I don't recall. I don't recall hearing any particular
discussion about him coming by. No, sir; I don't.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
What time did you get to work on November 22d?
Mr. TRULY. Around 8 o'clock, or shortly thereafter.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see Lee Harvey Oswald at any time during that day?
Mr. TRULY. I am almost certain that I saw him early that morning as I
came in, and spoke to him.
Mr. BELIN. And where was he when you saw him?
Mr. TRULY. I think he was around the front part of the Scott, Foresman
bins.
Mr. BELIN. On what floor?
Mr. TRULY. On the first floor.
Mr. BELIN. Was he filling orders?
Mr. TRULY. Apparently; yes, sir. I don't recall too close. But I am
almost certain that I talked to him that morning.
Mr. BELIN. Do you recall any conversation you might have had with him,
or he might have had with you?
Mr. TRULY. No, sir. If there was anything, I just said "Good morning,
Lee", and he said, "Good morning, sir" and that would be the extent of
my conversation, if I saw him that morning, which I am almost certain I
did.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see him any other time during that day?
Mr. TRULY. I cannot recall. I believe I saw him that morning later on,
around his work. But I probably wasn't on that floor too much, or out
on the floor that morning.
Mr. BELIN. Now, when did you leave for lunch, Mr. Truly?
Mr. TRULY. As near as I know, it was between somewheres around 12:10 or
shortly after, possibly 12:15.
Mr. BELIN. At that time did you go out to lunch?
Mr. TRULY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Where did you go to eat?