Mr. McCLOY. Would you hold up your right hand. Do you solemnly swear
that the testimony you give in this case will be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. JARMAN. I do.
Mr. BALL. The statement has been read to you as to the purpose of your
examination before the Commission?
Mr. JARMAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Hasn't it, Mr. Jarman?
Mr. JARMAN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. State your name, please?
Mr. JARMAN. James Jarman, Junior.
Mr. BALL. What do they call you, Junior?
Mr. JARMAN. Junior.
Mr. BALL. Where do you live?
Mr. JARMAN. 4930 Echo.
Mr. BALL. Are you married?
Mr. JARMAN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. What is your age?
Mr. JARMAN. 34.
Mr. BALL. Where were you born?
Mr. JARMAN. Dallas, Tex.
Mr. BALL. Have you lived there all your life?
Mr. JARMAN. Yes; I have.
Mr. BALL. You still live there?
Mr. JARMAN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. And did you go to school in Dallas?
Mr. JARMAN. Yes; I did.
Mr. BALL. How far did you go through school?
Mr. JARMAN. To the 10th grade and went to California in 1947 and stayed
there for about a year.
Mr. BALL. What did you do in California?
Mr. JARMAN. I was living with my aunt at the time.
Mr. BALL. Did you work?
Mr. JARMAN. No; I was still in school.
Mr. BALL. What school did you go to?
Mr. JARMAN. Alameda High.
Mr. BALL. Then where did you go after you came back, after you left
California?
Mr. JARMAN. I came back to Dallas.
Mr. BALL. Did you go to school any more?
Mr. JARMAN. No, I went into service.
Mr. BALL. What year did you go in the service?
Mr. JARMAN. 1948.
Mr. BALL. How long were you in the service?
Mr. JARMAN. I was in the service up until 1952.
Mr. BALL. What service?
Mr. JARMAN. U.S. Army.
Mr. BALL. And did you enlist in 1948?
Mr. JARMAN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Enlisted?
Mr. JARMAN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did 4 years in the Army?
Mr. JARMAN. Yes; I did.
Mr. BALL. Did you receive an honorable discharge from the Army?
Mr. JARMAN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. And then what did you do?
Mr. JARMAN. I came out and stayed out for about until July of 1953.
Mr. BALL. Then what?
Mr. JARMAN. And reenlisted in the service again.
Mr. BALL. How long did you stay in the Army this time?
Mr. JARMAN. Until 1956.
Mr. BALL. And were you discharged then?
Mr. JARMAN. Yes, I was.
Mr. BALL. Did you get an honorable discharge?
Mr. JARMAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And what did you do after that?
Mr. JARMAN. Well, I started working at the Texas School Book Depository
for about 2 months after.
Mr. BALL. After you got out of the Army?
Mr. JARMAN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. You are still there; are you?
Mr. JARMAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Was there any period of time since 1956 to 1964 that you
didn't work there?
Mr. JARMAN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. How many times?
Mr. JARMAN. I started in 1956. I worked from August up until November,
and I was laid off until December the same year and I started back
again and I worked up until 1958 I believe, 1958 or 1959, and I quit
there and went to Parkland Hospital. From there I went back to the
Depository. And I got laid off again and I went to Bakers Hotel, and
I think it was in 1961 I went back to the Depository and I have been
there ever since.
Mr. BALL. What was your job at the Depository in November of 1963, last
fall?
Mr. JARMAN. Checker.
Mr. BALL. What does a checker do?
Mr. JARMAN. He checks various orders, books and things that go out to
different schools.
Mr. BALL. Do the order fillers bring the books down to where you have
your----
Mr. JARMAN. Right.
Mr. BALL. On a table. You have a table?
Mr. JARMAN. I have a table with a scale and I weigh these books up and
put the upholstery on them and put them on a little conveyor and the
wrappers wrap them or pack them, whichever one it may be.
Mr. BALL. Did you know Lee Oswald?
Mr. JARMAN. Only as a coworker.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever talk to him while he was working there?
Mr. JARMAN. I have had him to correct orders at various times. That is
about all.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever talk to him about politics?
Mr. JARMAN. No.
Mr. BALL. Religion?
Mr. JARMAN. No.
Mr. BALL. Anything at all?
Mr. JARMAN. Not until November the 22d.
Mr. BALL. Not until that day?
Mr. JARMAN. Not until that day.
Mr. BALL. Did Oswald have any friends there?
Mr. JARMAN. Well, not that I know of.
Mr. BALL. Did he have any close friend that he would eat lunch with
every day?
Mr. JARMAN. No, sir; not that I know of.
Mr. BALL. Did you notice whether Oswald brought his lunch most of the
time or bought his lunch most of the time?
Mr. JARMAN. Most of the time he brought his lunch.
Mr. BALL. Most of the time he brought his lunch?
Mr. JARMAN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever see him buy his lunch?
Mr. JARMAN. Well, occasionally. I don't think so.
Mr. BALL. I don't understand.
Mr. JARMAN. I mean sometimes he would go out of the building. One time
I know in particular that he went out, but he didn't buy any lunch.
Mr. BALL. There is a catering service that comes by the building every
morning at 10 o'clock, isn't there?
Mr. JARMAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever see him buy his lunch from this catering service?
Mr. JARMAN. I think once or twice he did.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever see him when he was eating his lunch?
Mr. JARMAN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Where?
Mr. JARMAN. Sometimes in the, as we called it, domino room, and again
over by the coffee table where they make coffee.
Mr. BALL. Is that the first floor?
Mr. JARMAN. That is the first floor.
Mr. BALL. Now on November 22, what time did you get to work?
Mr. JARMAN. About 5 minutes after 8.
Mr. BALL. Was Oswald there when you got there?
Mr. JARMAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Where did you see him the first time?
Mr. JARMAN. Well, he was on the first floor filling orders.
Mr. BALL. Did you bring your lunch that day?
Mr. JARMAN. No, sir; I didn't.
Mr. BALL. What did you do about lunch that day?
Mr. JARMAN. I got a sandwich off the carrying truck.
Mr. BALL. About what time of day?
Mr. JARMAN. It was about 10 or a little after 10, maybe.
Mr. BALL. Where did you put it, keep it until lunch?
Mr. JARMAN. In the domino room.
Mr. BALL. Where in the domino room?
Mr. JARMAN. Well, they have two little windows, they have two sets of
windows in there and I put it in the window.
Mr. BALL. Did you talk to Oswald that morning?
Mr. JARMAN. I did.
Mr. BALL. When?
Mr. JARMAN. I had him to correct an order. I don't know exactly what
time it was.
Mr. BALL. Oh, approximately. Nine, ten?
Mr. JARMAN. It was around, it was between eight and nine, I would say.
Mr. BALL. Between 8 and 9?
Mr. JARMAN. Between 5 minutes after 8 and 9.
Mr. BALL. You had him correct an order?
Mr. JARMAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you talk to him again that morning?
Mr. JARMAN. Yes, sir. I talked to him again later on that morning.
Mr. BALL. About what time?
Mr. JARMAN. It was between 9:30 and 10 o'clock, I believe.
Mr. BALL. Where were you when you talked to him?
Mr. JARMAN. In between two rows of bins.
Mr. BALL. On what floor?
Mr. JARMAN. On the first floor.
Mr. BALL. And what was said by him and by you?
Mr. JARMAN. Well, he was standing up in the window and I went to the
window also, and he asked me what were the people gathering around on
the corner for, and I told him that the President was supposed to pass
that morning, and he asked me did I know which way he was coming, and I
told him, yes; he probably come down Main and turn on Houston and then
back again on Elm.
Then he said, "Oh, I see," and that was all.
Mr. BALL. Did you talk to him again?
Mr. JARMAN. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. What time did you quit for lunch?
Mr. JARMAN. It was right about 5 minutes to 12.
Mr. BALL. What did you do when you quit for lunch?
Mr. JARMAN. Went in the rest room and washed up.
Mr. BALL. Then what did you do?
Mr. JARMAN. Went and got my sandwich and went up in the lounge and got
me a soda pop.
Mr. BALL. Where is the lounge?
Mr. JARMAN. On the second floor.
Mr. BALL. On the second floor?
Mr. JARMAN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Then where did you go after you got your soda pop?
Mr. JARMAN. Came back and went down to the window.
Mr. BALL. What window?
Mr. JARMAN. Where Oswald and I was talking.
Mr. BALL. Where?
Mr. JARMAN. Between those two rows of bins.
Mr. BALL. Where Oswald and you had been talking?
Mr. JARMAN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. What did you do there?
Mr. JARMAN. I was eating part of my sandwich there, and then I came
back out and as I was walking across the floor I ate the rest of it
going toward the domino room.
Mr. BALL. You say you ate the rest of it when?
Mr. JARMAN. Walking around on the first floor there.
Mr. BALL. Did you sit down at the window when you ate part of your
sandwich?
Mr. JARMAN. No; I was standing.
Mr. BALL. And did you have the pop in your hand, too?
Mr. JARMAN. Yes; I had a sandwich in one hand and pop in the other.
Mr. BALL. You say you wandered around, you mean on the first floor?
Mr. JARMAN. On the first floor.
Mr. BALL. Were you with anybody when you were at the window? Did you
talk to anybody?
Mr. JARMAN. No; I did not.
Mr. BALL. Were you with anybody when you were walking around finishing
your sandwich?
Mr. JARMAN. No; I wasn't. I was trying to get through so I could get
out on the street.
Mr. BALL. Did you see Lee Oswald?
Mr. JARMAN. No; I didn't.
Mr. BALL. After his arrest, he stated to a police officer that he had
had lunch with you. Did you have lunch with him?
Mr. JARMAN. No, sir; I didn't.
Mr. BALL. When you finished your sandwich and your bottle of pop, what
did you do?
Mr. JARMAN. I throwed the paper that I had the sandwich in in the box
over close to the telephone and I took the pop bottle and put it in the
case over by the Dr. Pepper machine.
Mr. BALL. And then what did you do?
Mr. JARMAN. Then I went out in front of the building.
Mr. BALL. With who?
Mr. JARMAN. Harold Norman, Bonnie Ray, and Danny Arce and myself.
Mr. BALL. You say Bonnie Ray Williams?
Mr. JARMAN. Bonnie Ray Williams.
Mr. BALL. Do you remember him going with you?
Mr. JARMAN. No; I am sorry. Excuse me, but it was Harold Norman and
myself and Daniel Arce.
Mr. BALL. What about Billy Lovelady?
Mr. JARMAN. I didn't go out with them. They came out later.
Mr. BALL. Did you see Billy Lovelady out there?
Mr. JARMAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Where was he?
Mr. JARMAN. Standing on the stairway as you go out the front door.
Mr. BALL. Where did you stand?
Mr. JARMAN. I was standing over to the right in front of the building
going toward the west.
Mr. BALL. Were you on the sidewalk or curb?
Mr. JARMAN. On the sidewalk.
Mr. BALL. The sidewalk in front of the Texas School Book Depository
Building?
Mr. JARMAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. How long did you stand there?
Mr. JARMAN. Well, until about 12:20, between 12:20 and 12:25.
Mr. BALL. Who do you remember was standing near you that worked with
you in the Book Depository?
Mr. JARMAN. Harold Norman and Charles Givens and Daniel Arce.
Mr. BALL. What about Mr. Truly?
Mr. JARMAN. He wasn't standing close to me.
Mr. BALL. Did you see him?
Mr. JARMAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Who was he with?
Mr. JARMAN. He was with the Vice President of the company.
Mr. BALL. What is his name?
Mr. JARMAN. O. V. Campbell.
Mr. BALL. Where were they standing?
Mr. JARMAN. They were standing at the corner of the building in front
of the mail boxes.
Mr. BALL. You left there, didn't you, and went some place?
Mr. JARMAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. With whom?
Mr. JARMAN. Harold Norman and myself.
Mr. BALL. Where did you go?
Mr. JARMAN. We went around to the back of the building up to the fifth
floor.
Mr. BALL. You say you went around. You mean you went around the
building?
Mr. JARMAN. Right.
Mr. BALL. You didn't go through and cross the first floor?
Mr. JARMAN. No, sir; there was too many people standing on the stairway
there, so we decided to go around.
Mr. BALL. You went in the back door?
Mr. JARMAN. Right.
Mr. BALL. That would be the north entrance to the building, wouldn't it?
Mr. JARMAN. Right.
Mr. BALL. Did you take an elevator or the stairs?
Mr. JARMAN. We took the elevator.
Mr. BALL. Which elevator?
Mr. JARMAN. The west side elevator.
Mr. BALL. That is the one you use a punch button on, isn't it?
Mr. JARMAN. Right.
Mr. BALL. Where did you go?
Mr. JARMAN. To the fifth floor.
Mr. BALL. Why did you go to the fifth floor?
Mr. JARMAN. We just decided to go to the fifth floor.
Mr. BALL. Was there any reason why you should go to the fifth floor any
more than the fourth or the sixth?
Mr. JARMAN. No.
Mr. BALL. Did you know who made the suggestion you go to the fifth
floor?
Mr. JARMAN. Well, I don't know if it was myself or Hank.
Mr. BALL. When you got there was there anybody on the fifth floor?
Mr. JARMAN. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. What did you do when you got to the fifth floor?
Mr. JARMAN. We got out the elevator and pulled the gate down. That was
in case somebody wanted to use it. Then we went to the front of the
building, which is on the south side, and raised the windows.
Mr. BALL. Which windows did you raise?
Mr. JARMAN. Well, Harold raised the first window to the east side
of the building, and I went to the second rear windows and raised,
counting the windows, it would be the fourth one.
Mr. BALL. It would be the fourth window?
Mr. JARMAN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did somebody join you then?
Mr. JARMAN. Yes, sir; a few minutes later.
Mr. BALL. Who joined you?
Mr. JARMAN. Bonnie Ray Williams.
Mr. BALL. And where did he stand or sit?
Mr. JARMAN. He took the window next to Harold Norman.
Mr. BALL. I show you a picture which is 480, a picture of the Texas
School Book Depository Building. Can you show me the window before
which you were standing and out of which you were looking?
Mr. JARMAN. This window here.
Mr. BALL. It is marked W on this picture. Where was Harold Norman, the
window out of which Harold Norman was looking?
Mr. JARMAN. He was first right here.
Mr. BALL. That is the one marked with a red arrow?
Mr. JARMAN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Where was Bonnie Ray Williams?
Mr. JARMAN. Bonnie Ray Williams was in this one.
Mr. BALL. Next to the window of Norman, is that right?
Mr. JARMAN. Yes, sir.