Mr. BRENNAN. Yes.
Mr. McCLOY. How long was that?
Mr. BRENNAN. That was quick, too. He gave his orders to some one on
that side of the building, and then he had taken me to the Secret
Service man.
Mr. McCLOY. Did you have the feeling that the police had put a cordon
around the building, and were they keeping people in, or were people
coming in and out while you were there?
Mr. BRENNAN. Well, I did, by the time I got on the steps of the Texas
Book Store--I felt like that the place was completely surrounded and
blocked by then. But at the time I ran across to this officer, I may
have been completely wrong, they may have--the Secret Service men and
police department, too, may have been directing their search to the
building, but I felt as though they were directing their search to the
west side of the building.
Mr. McCLOY. You testified, I believe, that you saw them directing their
search towards the wrong side of the building, so to speak?
Mr. BRENNAN. Yes. That was my thoughts.
Mr. McCLOY. And so that would indicate that at that time they were not
blocking that particular entrance at the east side of the building,
below the window that you saw the shot fired from?
Mr. BRENNAN. Not according to my calculations.
Mr. DULLES. Any other questions?
Representative FORD. Mr. Chairman, I would suggest that perhaps in the
case of Mr. Brennan and other witnesses, if a biography prepared by the
individual, looked over by the staff, would not be helpful to include
in the record--I don't mean a biography in great depth, but at least an
outline of the individual's background--I think it would be helpful for
the record.
Mr. DULLES. We have certain information.
Mr. BELIN. We have certain information in the record right now which we
took at the very beginning of the session here this morning.
Representative FORD. Yes, I was present. But I think it is important to
have more of a background of his education, experience, and I think it
is wise to have it for all of the witnesses--not in great depth, but at
least a background to show some biographical information.
Mr. BELIN. Would you care to have that prepared by the witness himself,
or here in the record?
Representative FORD. I would suggest that it be prepared initially by
the witness, checked over by the staff, and then mutually agreed as
acceptable through the witness, and then insert it in the record.
Mr. DULLES. Prior to his testimony?
Representative FORD. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Would you be willing to furnish us with some kind of an
autobiographical sketch of yourself--your date and place of birth,
where you went to school, your education, your jobs that you have had,
and perhaps it also should include some kind of a physical description
as to your approximate height and weight and what-have-you?
Mr. BRENNAN. Not at all. But you sure going to be confused on my jobs,
sir.
Mr. BELIN. Because you have gone from one job to another?
Mr. BRENNAN. Well, I worked under the union constitution for the last
20 years, and I have worked for many a contractor.
Mr. BELIN. You mean you just work on contract, and when you are through
with that particular construction job, the union would send you to
another construction job?
Mr. BRENNAN. Yes. Usually a contractor wants me to go to the State of
Washington, like I did in California, or he wants me to go to Utah or
somewhere like that.
Mr. DULLES. I don't think we need all that detail.
Mr. BELIN. In other words, you have been a steamfitter.
Mr. BRENNAN. Yes, sir.
With the exception of the possibility of 2 years I was in business in
California, private business.
Mr. McCLOY. Are you a member of a church?
Mr. BRENNAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. McCLOY. What church are you a member of?
Mr. BRENNAN. Baptist.
Mr. McCLOY. You testified you were a Bible reader.
Mr. BRENNAN. Well, I don't read it as much as I should.
Mr. McCLOY. When you do, you have to wear glasses?
Mr. BRENNAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. DULLES. Any other questions?
Mr. BELIN. There have been two or three other questions that have come
up here, sir.
One question--when we visited on Friday in Dallas, what is the fact as
to whether or not I told you what to say or you yourself just told me
what you wanted to tell me?
Mr. BRENNAN. I told you--you did not instruct me what to say at all. I
told you in the best words I could to explain exactly my movements and
what happened.
Representative FORD. And here today you have testified freely on your
own?
Mr. BRENNAN. Right, I have.
Mr. DULLES. Anything you would like to add?
Mr. BELIN. One other question, sir.
For the record, would you repeat what I would say would be a full
statement of the reasons which caused you to state in your December
interview to the FBI that you had always been convinced that the man
you saw in the lineup was the man you saw firing the rifle, whereas on
November 22d you declined to give positive identification. Could you
give all of the reasons, please?
Mr. BRENNAN. Well, as I previously have said, I had saw the man in
the window and I had saw him on television. He looked much younger on
television than he did from my picture of him in the window--not much
younger, but a few years younger--say 5 years younger.
And then I felt that my family could be in danger, and I, myself, might
be in danger. And since they already had the man for murder, that
he wasn't going to be set free to escape and get out of the country
immediately, and I could very easily sooner than the FBI or the Secret
Service wanted me, my testimony in, I could very easily get in touch
with them, if they didn't get in touch with me, and to see that the man
didn't get loose.
Representative FORD. When you got home, about 3 o'clock, on November
22d, that is when you did get home----
Mr. BRENNAN. Yes.
Representative FORD. Was your wife there?
Mr. BRENNAN. Yes.
Representative FORD. Did you and your wife discuss any aspects of the
assassination and your being present, more or less, at the scene of the
assassination?
Mr. BRENNAN. Yes; we discussed it. We talked--I talked of moving
her and my grandson, which was living with us at that time and my
daughter--moving them out of town somewhere in secrecy.
Representative FORD. Why did you talk about moving your wife and your
grandson out of town on this afternoon on November 22d?
Mr. BRENNAN. Because I had already more or less given a detailed
description of the man, and I talked to the Secret Service and gave
them my statement, and they had convinced me that it would be strictly
confidential and all that. But still I felt like if I was the only
eyewitness, that anything could happen to me or my family.
So that was just about the length of our discussion of it.
She seemed to think that a person can't get away--wherever they go.
Representative FORD. Did you talk to anybody else between 3 p.m.,
November 22d and the time when one of the law enforcement agents came
out and picked you up that day?
Mr. BRENNAN. Not to tell--not to give any information out.
My wife and I went to the bank in Mesquite that evening, and my
daughter was at home. And I told her if anyone called to first have
them identify themselves, and find out the nature of their business
that they wanted me for, and if it was the FBI or the Secret Service,
to tell them where they could contact me.
And so we were in the bank, I believe, talking to the vice president
that evening. My daughter called and said Mr. Sorrels had called, and
that he had requested her to get the word to me to call him. And she
called me at the bank, and then I asked the secretary to get the number
for me. And I called Mr. Sorrels, and Mr. Sorrels told me there would
be a man to pick me up at 6 o'clock promptly.
Representative FORD. 6 p.m., November 22d.
Mr. BRENNAN. Yes; that is right.
Representative FORD. And he did pick you up, and you did go down to the
police station?
Mr. BRENNAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. When you got back from the police station, did you have any
further conversation with your wife about what you saw in the police
station?
Mr. BRENNAN. Yes. But I don't believe I explained to her full details.
She probably remembers whether I did or not, but I don't. I believe I
just told her that I would not identify, make positive identification.
I believe that is all I told her.
Mr. BELIN. That you would not, or that you could not?
Mr. BRENNAN. I believe I told her I would not.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember the specific color of any shirt that the man
with the rifle was wearing?
Mr. BRENNAN. No, other than light, and a khaki color--maybe in khaki. I
mean other than light color--not a real white shirt, in other words. If
it was a white shirt, it was on the dingy side.
Mr. BELIN. I am handing you what the court reporter has marked as
Commission Exhibit 150.
Does this look like it might or might not be the shirt, or can you make
at this time any positive identification of any kind?
Mr. BRENNAN. I would have expected it to be a little lighter--a shade
or so lighter.
Mr. BELIN. Than Exhibit 150?
Mr. BRENNAN. That is the best of my recollection.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Could you see the man's trousers at all?
Do you remember any color?
Mr. BRENNAN. I remembered them at that time as being similar to the
same color of the shirt or a little lighter. And that was another thing
that I called their attention to at the lineup.
Mr. BELIN. What do you mean by that?
Mr. BRENNAN. That he was not dressed in the same clothes that I saw the
man in the window.
Mr. BELIN. You mean with reference to the trousers or the shirt?
Mr. BRENNAN. Well, not particularly either. In other words, he just
didn't have the same clothes on.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Mr. BRENNAN. I don't know whether you have that in the record or not. I
am sure you do.
Mr. DULLES. Any further questions?