Mrs. PAINE. No. He said he had come from work. I might interject here
one recollection if you want it.
Mr. JENNER. Please.
Mrs. PAINE. Of Michael having telephoned to me after the assassination.
He wanted to know if I had heard.
Mr. JENNER. Did he call you before he arrived at your home?
Mrs. PAINE. He called. He knew about the assassination. He had been
told by a waitress at lunchtime. I don't know whether he knew any
further details, whether he knew from whence the shots had been fired,
but he knew immediately that I would want to know, and called simply to
find out if I knew, and of course I did, and we didn't converse about
it, but I felt the difference between him and my immediate neighbor to
whom I have already referred, Michael was as struck and grieved as I
was, and we shared this over the telephone.
Mr. JENNER. And his appearance in mid-afternoon, as you have related,
was, according to what he said activated as you have related, that he
had heard that Lee Oswald was now involved.
Mrs. PAINE. That is right.
Mr. JENNER. How did you and Marina look at the parade, that is as the
motorcade went along were you and Marina----
Mrs. PAINE. This was not shown on television.
Mr. JENNER. Oh, it wasn't?
Mrs. PAINE. To the best of my recollection they had cameras at the
convention center, whatever it was, that the President was coming to
for dinner, and for his talk.
Mr. JENNER. And was the motorcade being described, broadcast by radio?
Mrs. PAINE. The motorcade was being described.
Mr. JENNER. Were you and Marina listening to that?
Mrs. PAINE. Well, it was coming through the television set, but it
wasn't being shown.
Mr. JENNER. Were you listening?
Mrs. PAINE. We were.
Mr. JENNER. Did she show an interest in this?
Mrs. PAINE. Oh, yes.
Mr. JENNER. And it being broadcast in English, I assume you were doing
some interpreting for her?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Is that correct?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Most of this has been covered, Senator Cooper, and I am
getting through pages fortunately that we don't have to go over again.
Senator COOPER. After you knew that the President was dead, and Marina
knew, do you know, from that time on, whether she ever went into her
room, left you and went into her room?
Mrs. PAINE. I would think it highly likely that she did. The
announcement that the President was actually dead came, oh, I think
around 1:30 or close to 2. I already related that my little girl wept
and fell asleep on the sofa. This was a time therefore that Marina
would have been putting Junie to bed in the bedroom.
Senator COOPER. Between the time that you heard the President had been
shot and the news came that he died, did she ever leave you and go into
her room, do you remember?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't remember specifically, but you must understand that
the little baby was already born. She would have had many occasions,
needs to go into the room.
Senator COOPER. Do you know whether she went into the garage?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't know.
Senator COOPER. What?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't know whether she went into the garage.
Mr. JENNER. You have no impressions in that respect?
Mrs. PAINE. None.
Mr. JENNER. Do you recall an incident involving Lee Oswald's wedding
ring?
Mrs. PAINE. I do.
Mr. JENNER. Would you relate that, please?
Mrs. PAINE. One or two FBI agents came to my home, I think Odum was
one of them, and said that Marina had inquired after and wanted Lee's
wedding ring, and he asked me if I had any idea where to look for
it. I said I'll look first in the little tea cup that is from her
grandmother, and on top of the chest of drawers in the bedroom where
she had stayed. I looked and it was there.
Mr. JENNER. Calling on your recollection of this man, was he in the
habit of wearing his wedding ring?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Did this strike you as unusual that the wedding ring should
be back in this cup on the dresser in their room?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes, quite.
Mr. JENNER. Elaborate as to why it struck you as unusual?
Mrs. PAINE. I do not wear my wedding ring. Marina has on several
occasions said to me she considers that bad luck, not a good thing to
do.
I would suspect that she would certainly have wanted Lee to wear his
wedding ring, and encouraged him to do it.
Mr. JENNER. In face of the fact that he regularly wore his wedding
ring, yet on this occasion, that is being home the evening before, you
received this call, you went to the bedroom and you found the wedding
ring. Did it occur to you that that might have been in the nature of a
leave-taking of some kind by Lee Oswald, leaving his wedding ring for
Marina?
Mrs. PAINE. It occurred to me that that might have been a form of
thinking ahead. I had no way of knowing whether or not Marina had known
that he left it. I was not instructed where to look for it.
Mr. JENNER. You were not?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. JENNER. But Marina did say to you "would you look for Lee's wedding
ring?"
Mrs. PAINE. No, Odum did.
Mr. JENNER. Odum did.
Mrs. PAINE. And of course clearly they would know whether he had it.
Mr. JENNER. Yes, I see. It was not Marina. It was one of the FBI
agents. And it is your clear recollection that he was in the habit of
wearing that wedding ring all the time. Do you ever recall an occasion
when he left the wedding ring at home?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. JENNER. To your knowledge?
Mrs. PAINE. To my knowledge, no.
Mr. JENNER. When you obtained the wedding ring did you examine it?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. JENNER. I mean did you look inside to see if there was an
inscription on it or were you curious about that?
Mrs. PAINE. I gave it to Mr. Odum who was with me in the room.
Mr. JENNER. Mr. Odum accompanied you?
Mrs. PAINE. Went with me to the bedroom. I am pretty sure he was the
one.
Senator COOPER. The morning of the day that the President was killed,
did Mrs. Oswald, after she got up, say anything to you about any
unusual characteristics of Lee Oswald's taking leave of her that
morning?
Mrs. PAINE. Absolutely none.
Senator COOPER. Did she talk about him leaving? Did she tell you
anything at all about what happened when he did get up?
Mrs. PAINE. I have a recollection that must be from her that she woke
enough to feed the baby, to nurse the baby in the morning, when he
was getting up to go, but she then went back to sleep after that, and
she must have told me that. But that is all I know, that she had been
awake, and nursed the baby early in the morning, and then went back to
sleep.
Senator COOPER. And Lee Oswald went back to sleep?
Mrs. PAINE. No, no, Marina went back to sleep.
Senator COOPER. Oh, Marina went back to sleep. Was he leaving then?
Mrs. PAINE. I judge so.
Senator COOPER. What?
Mrs. PAINE. I judge so.
Senator COOPER. But I mean did she say anything else about him?
Mrs. PAINE. No; nothing about his leaving at all.
Mr. JENNER. What were his habits with respect to breakfast? For example
on the Monday mornings of the weekends which he visited your home, did
he prepare his own, and if so, what kind of a breakfast did he prepare?
Mrs. PAINE. I would say his habit was to have a cup of instant coffee
only.
Mr. JENNER. And you have a clear recollection that on the morning of
the 21st when you went into the kitchen----
Mrs. PAINE. The 22d.
Mr. JENNER. The 22d, I am sorry, the 22d you saw a plastic coffee cup
or tea cup, and you looked at it and you could see the remains of
somebody having prepared instant coffee?
Mrs. PAINE. That is right.
Mr. JENNER. And that is clear in your mind?
Mrs. PAINE. Perfectly clear. I looked especially for traces of Lee
having been up, since I wondered if he might be still sleeping, having
overslept.
Mr. JENNER. Was he in the habit on these weekends of making himself a
sandwich which he would take with him?
Mrs. PAINE. No; there is no such habit. Perhaps once Marina prepared
something for him to take with him, I think more for him to put in his
room, partly for lunch, partly for him to have at his room in town and
use the refrigerator.
Mr. JENNER. But in any event, on the morning of the 22d you saw no
evidence of there having been an attempt by anybody to prepare?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. JENNER. Sandwiches for lunch or to take anything else in the way of
food from your home?
Mrs. PAINE. I saw no evidence, and I saw nothing that was missing.
Mr. JENNER. At any time during all the time you knew the Oswalds, up to
and including November 22, was any mention ever made of any attempt on
the life of Richard Nixon?
Mrs. PAINE. None.
Mr. JENNER. Just that subject matter, was it ever mentioned?
Mrs. PAINE. Never.
Mr. JENNER. To the best of your recollection did they ever discuss
Richard Nixon as a person?
Mrs. PAINE. I can't recall Richard Nixon coming into the conversation
at any time.
Mr. JENNER. And to the present day--well, I want to include the time
that you spoke here a couple weeks ago with Marina, let us say up to
and including that day had there ever been any discussion with you by
Marina of the possibility of Lee Oswald contemplating making an attack
upon the person of Richard Nixon?
Mrs. PAINE. No; no such discussion.
Mr. JENNER. Did anyone else ever talk to you about that up to that
time, talk to you on that subject?
Mrs. PAINE. Well, after it was rumored in the paper, someone asked me
if I thought there was anything to it but that is something else.
Mr. JENNER. When you say recently some rumor to that effect that is
what you are talking about?
Mrs. PAINE. That is right.
Mr. JENNER. Up to that time?
Mrs. PAINE. Absolutely none.
Mr. JENNER. I take it from your testimony this morning that you have
seen and talked with Robert Oswald but once?
Mrs. PAINE. And you recall also when he came to pick up her things?
Mr. JENNER. Oh, yes.
Mrs. PAINE. Twice.
Mr. JENNER. So you saw him once for the first time in the city police
station?
Mrs. PAINE. That is right.
Mr. JENNER. You talked with him on that occasion. You saw him on one
occasion when not so long after that he came out to pick up her things?
Mrs. PAINE. That is right.
Mr. JENNER. And had some conversation with him then. Have there ever
been any other occasions that you have had a conversation with him
directly or by telephone?
Mrs. PAINE. No. I made one attempt to have such a conversation and
drove out to his home in Denton and talked with his wife.
Mr. JENNER. And what occurred then? When was that?
Mrs. PAINE. Possibly in January.
Mr. JENNER. Of 1964?
Mrs. PAINE. Right.
Mr. JENNER. Why did you go out there?
Mrs. PAINE. I had been writing letters to Marina and receiving no
reply, and I wanted to go and talk with both Robert and his wife
to inquire what was the best way to be a friend to Marina in this
situation, whether it was better to write letters or better not to,
whether she wanted to hear from me or whether she didn't, and knowing
that they had seen her, I felt they might be able to help me with this.
I was told by Mrs. Robert Oswald that Robert had a bad cold, and she
didn't want to expose my children who were with me, and she and I
talked through the screen, and I explained what I wanted. But I didn't
feel helped by the visit.
Mr. JENNER. You did not.
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. JENNER. Did you feel that there was a lack of cordiality?
Mrs. PAINE. She apologized for not having me in, and she was friendly
and said, "what nice children you have," but it is somewhat hard to
communicate through a screen.
Mr. JENNER. That was the only difficulty that you observed, the
difficulty in talking through the screen door, the screen of the door?
Mrs. PAINE. I felt that she could have asked me whether I cared if my
children were exposed. I felt that she preferred for me not to come in.
Senator COOPER. Was Marina staying with them?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't believe so. I am pretty certain she was at that
time at the Martin's home.
Senator COOPER. Did you get any impression in your talk with Mrs.
Robert Oswald that they were not interested in finding out the
information that you were asking for?
Mrs. PAINE. She offered the opinion that she didn't think there was any
particular point to writing letters at this time, but she offered no
reason.
Mr. JENNER. By the way, do you have copies of those letters, Mrs. Paine?
Mrs. PAINE. At home.
Mr. JENNER. I know now that I will be to see you on Monday.
Mrs. PAINE. Monday?
Mr. JENNER. Yes. Are you going to be home on Monday?
Mrs. PAINE. I am flying Monday morning. Shall we go together? I am not
leaving until Monday morning.
Mr. JENNER. I am going down Sunday night. So may I see those letters on
that occasion?
Mrs. PAINE. As soon as I get home.