Mrs. PAINE. Would you clarify for me, someone is of the opinion that I
thought that Oswald was an undercover agent for whom?
Mr. JENNER. That you said so.
Mrs. PAINE. For whom?
Mr. JENNER. For the Russian government.
Mrs. PAINE. Oh. I have certainly never said anything of the sort.
Mr. JENNER. Did you ever say to anybody including Mrs. Gravitis that
you thought Lee Harvey Oswald was a Communist?
Mrs. PAINE. Well, it is possible I said that. I thought he considered
himself a Communist by ideology, certainly a Marxist. He himself always
corrected anyone who called him a Communist and said he was a Marxist.
Mr. JENNER. When you use the term communist do you think of a person as
a member of the Communist Party or a native of Russia?
Mrs. PAINE. I seldom use the term at all, but I would confine it
to people who were members or considered themselves in support of
Communist ideology.
Mr. JENNER. A person in your mind may be a Communist, and yet not a
member of the Communist Party, even in Russia?
Mrs. PAINE. I might use the word in that loose way.
Mr. JENNER. The last of these interviews was on, may I suggest, and if
not would you correct me, January 27, 1964, by Agent Wiehl, and Agent
Hosty. It appears, and would you please correct me if I am wrong, to
have been an interview in your home at the very tail end of January
1964?
Mrs. PAINE. I have no specific recollection.
Mr. JENNER. Do you recall an interview in which you reported to the
FBI, these two agents, that agent Hosty--no, that you gave Lee Harvey
Oswald the name of agent James P. Hosty together with the Dallas FBI
telephone number which you had obtained on November 1, 1963, that you
did not give him the license number of the automobile driven by agent
Hosty, however, and that, as I have asked you before, the license
number could have been observed by Marina Oswald on November 1?
Mrs. PAINE. That is my recollection of the occurrence.
Mr. JENNER. And it could have been observed on November 5th?
Mrs. PAINE. That is right.
Senator COOPER. Did you yourself see the license plate?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Senator COOPER. You don't know the numbers or letters that were on the
license plate?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. JENNER. Mrs. Paine, you testified yesterday and you testified again
today, this morning, that you had no recollection of Lee Oswald having
gone into the garage of your home on Thursday, November 21. Do you
recall that testimony?
Mrs. PAINE. Well, that I did not see him there or see him go through
the door to the garage. I was clear in my own mind that it was he who
had left the light on, and I tried to describe that.
Mr. JENNER. It may have been a possibility and you were inferring from
that that he was in the garage.
Mrs. PAINE. I definitely infer that.
Mr. JENNER. Were you interviewed by the FBI agents Hosty and Abernathy
on the 23d of November 1963?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And in the course of that interview, do you recall having
stated to these agents that on the evening of November 21, Lee Oswald
went out to the garage of your home, where he had many of his personal
effects stored, and spent considerable time, apparently rearranging and
handling his personal effects.
Mrs. PAINE. I don't recall saying exactly that.
Mr. JENNER. Could you have said that to the agents.
Mrs. PAINE. I could have said as far as spending considerable time.
Mr. JENNER. Now that your recollection is possibly further refreshed,
please tell us what you did say to the agents as you now recall?
Mrs. PAINE. You have refreshed nothing. You have got all there was of
my recollection in previous testimony.
Mr. JENNER. Based on the fundamentals, the specifics which you have
given us yesterday and today, you did report to the FBI on the 23d of
November in the interview to which I have called your attention that on
the evening of the 21st Oswald went out to the garage where he had many
of his personal effects stored, and spent considerable time apparently
rearranging and handling his personal effects.
Mrs. PAINE. I don't recall ever saying "apparently rearranging and
handling."
Mr. JENNER. Other than the word "apparently" that is a reasonable
summary of what you did say to the FBI agents, is it?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't recall. I think my best recollection is as I have
given it to you in the testimony, was it this morning, that I certainly
was of the opinion that he had been out there. I had been busy for some
time with my children, and I could easily, and of course that was the
day after, and this several months after, have been of the opinion,
been informed as to how long he had been out there, but my recollection
now doesn't give me any length of time.
Mr. JENNER. You have heretofore given us yesterday and today your very
best recollection after full reflection on all the course of events.
Mrs. PAINE. I certainly have.
Mr. JENNER. I notice that during the course of the interview, and
perhaps you will recall, that you did call attention of the FBI, these
two agents, to the Mexico City letter about which you have testified,
is that correct?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes; I gave it to them.
Mr. JENNER. Mr. Chairman, that is all I intend to cover with respect to
the FBI. Do you have any questions? We will go on to another subject.
Senator COOPER. This would be going back into the subject on which you
have already testified, but with reference to this last statement,
this letter, where it is reported, you said, Lee Oswald did go into
the garage and spend some time, did you make a statement to the FBI
after the agents had been in the garage, or the police had been in the
garage, and had found the blanket with nothing in it.
Mrs. PAINE. Yes, certainly, this was the next day that Hosty was out
with Abernathy.
Senator COOPER. And you did remember of course that you found the light
on?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Senator COOPER. You did not expect it to be on in the garage? Do you
think it is correct then that at the time you made this statement,
recognizing the importance of the garage, that you did say at that time
that he had been in the garage on the night before the President was
assassinated?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes. I think I said that.
Senator COOPER. You think you made that statement?
Mrs. PAINE. I think I made that statement. This was certainly my
impression.
Mr. JENNER. You have already related the arrival of your husband,
Michael Paine, at your home in mid-afternoon of the day of the
assassination?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Now would you please tell me exactly to the best of your
recollection the words of your husband as he walked in the door?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't recall his saying anything.
Mr. JENNER. Now his words if any with respect to why he had come.
Mrs. PAINE. I asked him before he volunteered. I said something to the
effect of "how did you know to come?"
Mr. JENNER. And what did he say?
Mrs. PAINE. He said he had heard on the radio at work that Lee Oswald
was in custody, and came immediately to the house.
Mr. JENNER. And that is what you recall he said?
Mrs. PAINE. That is right.
Mr. JENNER. Did he say, and I quote: "I heard where the President was
shot, and I came right over to see if I could be of any help to you."
Mrs. PAINE. No.