Mr. HUTCHISON. Several minutes.
Mr. JENNER. Several minutes?
Mr. HUTCHISON. Yes, sir. How far between then, I don't know; but from
then on, I would say 20 minutes before they checked out.
Mr. JENNER. Did he pay for these goods?
Mr. HUTCHISON. Yes, sir; yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. How? With cash?
Mr. HUTCHISON. Cash. Yes, sir. There was only one other time when he
tried to cash a check.
Mr. JENNER. And I'll get to that in a minute--but on this particular
occasion, it was cash.
Mr. HUTCHISON. Yes, sir. It was always cash. Yes, sir. He always paid
cash.
Mr. JENNER. I am interested, Mr. Hutchison, in the older lady--the
older of the two ladies.
Mr. HUTCHISON. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Could you give me any more--draw on your imagination and
see if----
Mr. HUTCHISON. Well, she was on the heavy side; I would say weight 160
or 170 pounds, and short and dumpy.
Mr. JENNER. How tall was she with respect to the gentleman and the
young lady?
Mr. HUTCHISON. Well, she was--she was, of course, not as tall as the
gentleman and maybe about the same height as the lady.
Mr. JENNER. The young lady?
Mr. HUTCHISON. Yes, sir; the young lady.
Mr. JENNER. What was your judgment as to the young lady's height?
Mr. HUTCHISON. I would say 5 feet 2-1/2 or 3.
Mr. JENNER. Relatively short?
Mr. HUTCHISON. Yes, sir; relatively short--yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And the elderly lady was approximately that height as well?
Mr. HUTCHISON. Yes, sir; but dumpy.
Mr. JENNER. Heavier set?
Mr. HUTCHISON. Heavier set; yes.
Mr. JENNER. What would you say was the weight of the younger lady?
Mr. HUTCHISON. I would say 107 to 110.
Mr. JENNER. Slightly built, then?
Mr. HUTCHISON. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Did I ask you this--was that a busy period of time, as you
recall?
Mr. HUTCHISON. No; no, no. It wasn't too busy.
Mr. JENNER. And you were afforded plenty of opportunity, were you, to
observe these people?
Mr. HUTCHISON. Yes; yes. When I went around this aisle to hear this
foreign language, I looked at them and I could see them as plain as I'm
seeing you. I didn't go right down and just stare and look at them--but
my aisle is only 36 feet long and they were in the middle of the aisle.
So when I went around the aisle, I was within 15 feet of them.
Mr. JENNER. Now, had the gentleman you're now describing been in--was
one of the occasions that he'd been in in the morning?
Mr. HUTCHISON. Yes, sir; before.
Mr. JENNER. Prior to this event?
Mr. HUTCHISON. Yes, sir; yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And on these prior occasions when he was alone, did he ever
use a language which was other than English?
Mr. HUTCHISON. Mr. Jenner, he never said a word. He never spoke. I'd
always speak when he came in and always thank him when he went out.
And whatever the purchase was, you addressed the amount--like it was a
$1.04, a $1.16, a $1.12--he'd just put the money out or get the change
and walk right out the door. He never said a word.
Mr. JENNER. He didn't say hello, goodby, how are you, nice morning,
it's raining--nothing at all?
Mr. HUTCHISON. No, sir; nothing. He never said a word.
Mr. JENNER. He came in, employing the self-service, picked up--let's
see, cinnamon rolls--you said?
Mr. HUTCHISON. And milk.
Mr. JENNER. And milk. And you, recognizing the cost of the sales price
of these items, he'd walk up to the counter, you would state _x_
dollars or cents----
Mr. HUTCHISON. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Whatever the purchase was, he would hand you the change in
cash----
Mr. HUTCHISON. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And you would give him his change if it wasn't the exact
amount that he'd handed you. And he'd walk out without saying a word?
Mr. HUTCHISON. He never said a word. That was odd. I began to notice
that after that happened a couple or three times. Most anyone will say,
"Thank you," or "Good morning," or something; but he never said a word.
This is a friendly store, Mr. Jenner. It's not a cold store--like a
chainstore or anything like that. We don't change help and it's just
a--well, it's a neighborhood supermarket, is what it is.
Mr. JENNER. Yes; I should bring this out; this is an independent store,
it's not a chainstore?
Mr. HUTCHISON. Yes, sir; it's independent--not a chainstore.
Mr. JENNER. And you're both the owner and the manager?
Mr. HUTCHISON. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And it's a neighborly neighborhood store?
Mr. HUTCHISON. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Now, you say there was an occasion when he attempted to
cash a check?
Mr. HUTCHISON. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Now, would you first fix the date--I assume you can't
recall the exact date--but fix the month and the time of the month.
Mr. HUTCHISON. It would be the first week in November. To the best of
my recollection, it was after this incident of the buying of the bill
of groceries.
Mr. JENNER. All right. And what time of day was that?
Mr. HUTCHISON. It was in the afternoon, sir, between 5 and 6
o'clock--because I'm in the cage. I have a check-cashing cage, and on
busy days I go into the cage and, naturally, I cash 90 percent of the
checks--especially the big checks.
Mr. JENNER. I see. Now, I think you've told me that you are in your
store on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays?
Mr. HUTCHISON. Nights.
Mr. JENNER. Nights?
Mr. HUTCHISON. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. But you are there during the day every day, also?
Mr. HUTCHISON. Yes, sir; yes, sir. I run my store. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. So, you are in your store in the neighborhood of the 5
o'clock period every day?
Mr. HUTCHISON. Every day; yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. All right. Now what day of the week was this?
Mr. HUTCHISON. Friday.
Mr. JENNER. Friday?
Mr. HUTCHISON. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And it was around 5 or 5:30?
Mr. HUTCHISON. Between 5 and 6 o'clock, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Now, using your own words, describe the incident,
commencing giving the background.
Mr. HUTCHISON. Well, they line up to cash their checks.
Mr. JENNER. And you were in the cage?
Mr. HUTCHISON. Yes, sir; I was in the cage.
Mr. JENNER. And there were people lined up to cash checks?
Mr. HUTCHISON. Yes, sir; sometimes 8 to 10 line up--because we have
Ling Electric, we have Temco, and we have Chance Vought. We also
have General Motors people who live in Irving. And Friday is a big
check-cashing day.
Mr. JENNER. Uh, huh.
Mr. HUTCHISON. And I always step into the cage to cash checks and,
naturally, I know most people who come in. And this was a two-party
check.
Mr. JENNER. What do you mean by that?
Mr. HUTCHISON. A two-party check means that it was not a payroll check,
but a personal check given to him.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mr. HUTCHISON. And, as best as I can remember, it was $189--which is
strictly against our rules to cash. We don't cash any two-party checks
over $25.
Mr. JENNER. I see.
Mr. HUTCHISON. And so I just merely told him, "I'm sorry; I can't cash
this check."
Mr. JENNER. Excuse me. If I call that a personal check--is that an apt
description? You call it a "two-party" check, meaning----
Mr. HUTCHISON. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. It's drawn by an individual and payable to an individual?
Mr. HUTCHISON. Right. That's right. An individual check payable to an
individual.
Mr. JENNER. As distinguished from a payroll check?
Mr. HUTCHISON. Yes; as distinguished from a payroll check.
Mr. JENNER. And your practice is to limit your risk on that type of
check to $25?
Mr. HUTCHISON. $25; yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And your recollection is that that check was in the amount
of $189?
Mr. HUTCHISON. $189; yes, sir.