Mr. JENNER. It was at night?
Mrs. TOBIAS. In the evening--yes, and then he didn't take it, but he
wanted to look around. He asked my husband if he might look around.
Mr. JENNER. Your husband was home?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And you were home?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. It was in the evening?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Was anybody accompanying him?
Mrs. TOBIAS. No; just Oswald, my husband and I.
Mr. JENNER. How was he dressed?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Well, he always seemed to wear slacks and just a T-shirt.
Mr. JENNER. Is it your recollection that on this occasion he was so
dressed?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Just a jacket and slacks and I just can't remember if he
had on a T-shirt or if he had on a sports shirt or a dress shirt that
night, but he wanted to see the apartment. My husband took him over,
because we don't like to rent the apartments in the evening--we don't
have to, but just a lot of times my husband will go ahead and show
them, because they said we don't have to after 8:30 or 9 o'clock. My
husband took him over and showed him the apartment and then he asked my
husband if he could look around and my husband said, "sure."
Mr. JENNER. Mr. Oswald wanted to look around the apartment or look
around the building?
Mrs. TOBIAS. He wanted to look around the building. He wanted to go
around the building. So, he looked at the back entrance, the way he
could get out the back entrance--now, that back entrance will go out,
like I told you, this driveway--it will take you out onto Davis.
Mr. JENNER. The back entrance?
Mrs. TOBIAS. The side entrance--his side entrance, we'll say.
Mr. JENNER. He was looking at the back entrance of his apartment?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Yes, he went all through the back.
Mr. JENNER. His apartment, which came in from the driveway?
Mrs. TOBIAS. This is a driveway and down here in the hallway is the
door. He wanted to see around in the back, he wanted to see the
arrangement of the building, and how it was. There is a driveway that
comes up off of Davis and back in here of the slab that they can park
on. Of course, Mr. Oswald never had a car, and it just goes off onto
Davis, but that is that driveway where I told you--this driveway goes
all the way around onto Davis.
Mr. JENNER. Now, the driveway, which up to the moment I have limited
from Elsbeth Street--it turns and goes out into Davis?
Mrs. TOBIAS. That's right. The driveway completely goes around.
Mr. JENNER. I'm going to mark the west end of the driveway also--is
that correct?
Mrs. TOBIAS. The driveway goes out into Davis--that's correct. So, it
was a week later before he came back to rent it.
Mr. JENNER. He waited a week?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. You told him what the cost was?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Yes, my husband told him that.
Mr. JENNER. Did he say anything about money at that time--did you make
any inquiry as to whether or not he was working, where he worked?
Mrs. TOBIAS. No; Mr. Oswald was very quiet. He had very little to say,
so when he came back, he told my husband he had a wife and child.
Mr. JENNER. Were you present?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Yes, I was there when he rented it.
Mr. JENNER. Were you there when he made this statement that he had a
wife and child?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Yes, and when they came in--I didn't see anyone for quite
some time, perhaps 10 days or 2 weeks, and I said to my husband, "I
thought he told us he had a wife and child?" He said, "Well, he did."
We don't know when he moved in because he could have used that driveway
to the back door--you understand what I mean?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mrs. TOBIAS. And then, I suppose it was about 2 weeks and then he got a
phone call.
Mr. JENNER. If you will pardon me, I would like to stay with a few of
your earlier statements at the moment.
Mrs. TOBIAS. All right.
Mr. JENNER. When he first came and made the inquiry about the apartment
and made this short tour around the place--it was at night?
Mrs. TOBIAS. When he wanted to see the back door.
Mr. JENNER. Was anything said about his prior history then, whether he
was married, not married, whether he had children--whether he had been?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Yes, he had a wife and a little girl. That's all we ever
learned. We didn't know whether they came from Fort Worth or anywhere.
We didn't know where he came from because he was very quiet mouthed.
Mr. JENNER. Didn't you ask about whether he was working? Whether he had
some money that he could pay the rent with?
Mrs. TOBIAS. I tell you what--there is a card--the FBI picked the card
up sometime ago, but they got to fill this rental card out and he is
supposed, my husband slipped up on that, to give reference of where he
has last worked and where his business place is, and so all he put on
there was Service.
Mr. JENNER. Meaning military service?
Mrs. TOBIAS. I don't know--that's all they had--"Service".
Mr. JENNER. Just the one word "Service"?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Just the one word "Service" and he signed it and then, of
course, he slipped up on that--of course, we didn't have any idea there
was anything like this.
Mr. JENNER. Of course not.
Mrs. TOBIAS. Like--since that happened, the people that own it have
asked my husband to make sure that he examines those cards and then
make them give a signature over on the side.
All Oswald did was just to give his, fill it in like it should have
been filled in, and sign it and that's all he put. And they picked that
card up some time ago.
Mr. JENNER. The FBI did?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Yes, we had to sign it, my husband and I had to release it.
Mr. JENNER. Yes; that's all right.
Mrs. TOBIAS. They picked that up some time ago and now that's where
we slipped up, and that's all we ever knew, and I never knew where he
worked.
Mr. JENNER. He moved in in due course?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Yes; he moved in.
Mr. JENNER. About how long after he had made this initial inquiry?
Mrs. TOBIAS. You mean before he came in?
Mr. JENNER. He came in on what date?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Well, the 3d of November--here's the books when you get
ready for them--he moved in November 3, 1962.
Mr. JENNER. He moved in the 3d of November 1962?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Yes: but let me say--he rented it November 3--that's the
day he paid his first rent and as we said, we never knew when he moved
in.
Mr. JENNER. When he paid his rent, that was about a week after this
initial incident, was it not?
Mrs. TOBIAS. No; you mean to look around?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mrs. TOBIAS. He looked around a week before he came back and rented it.
Mr. JENNER. Yes; so that he was there November the 3d and that would be
approximately a week--that would make it the 26th of October?
Mrs. TOBIAS. When he was there the first time--it would have been,
because it was close to a week before he came back.
Mr. JENNER. November 3 would be a Saturday and if it was about a week,
then the previous occasion was on a Saturday.
Mrs. TOBIAS. When he rented it, you mean?
Mr. JENNER. No; when he first came to talk to you.
Mrs. TOBIAS. Well, I just don't remember--really to tell you the truth.
Mr. JENNER. It was about a week?
Mrs. TOBIAS. It was--it was a week in between--a week elapsed there
before he came back.
Mr. JENNER. Did he leave a deposit on that occasion?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Yes; a $5 deposit for the key, which we asked to be
deposited and he did; you mean on the apartment when he left, when he
moved out?
Mr. JENNER. No, no.
Mrs. TOBIAS. No; he didn't that time.
Mr. JENNER. When he rented the apartment, did he make an advance
payment of rent or did he make a deposit?
Mrs. TOBIAS. No; when he came back the 3d of November he paid a month's
rent and which would have been a $5 deposit--$68 for the month and the
$5 deposit.
Mr. JENNER. Or $73 altogether?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Yes; I thought you meant did he ask for his deposit
back--he never.
Mr. JENNER. Well, I will get to that in a minute.
Mrs. TOBIAS. I was getting mixed up--excuse me.
Mr. JENNER. No; you weren't mixed up. They moved in--you don't know
when they moved in?
Mrs. TOBIAS. I honestly don't, and my husband said he didn't either,
but they could use that side.
Mr. JENNER. The driveway?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Yes; they could have pulled the car in there.
Mr. JENNER. Eventually you became aware that they were in the apartment?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Oh, yes; because after--we got a phone call. I didn't even
know she was up there then, because she hadn't started coming out until
they got this phone call.
Do you want me to tell you about that?
Mr. JENNER. Was that the first thing that aroused your attention of the
fact that they were there?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Of her and the child--no, I had seen Oswald, I think,
in and out, but he just went real fast, but like I said, Mrs. Oswald
didn't appear. It must have been maybe a week or 10 days before I had
seen Mrs. Oswald.
Mr. JENNER. A week or 10 days after you saw him--after they moved in?
Mrs. TOBIAS. After he rented that; yes.
Mr. JENNER. He received a telephone call?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Yes; and I answered the phone and they wanted to talk with
Mr. Oswald, and I said, "Well, I'm sorry but we don't make it a habit
of calling our tenants to the phone." He said, "Well, this is very
important--I would like to get ahold of Mr. Oswald." I said, "Would you
like to give me a number?" He said, "Just tell him George called and
they will know what you are talking about."
Mr. JENNER. He said, "Just tell him George called"?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Yes; and my husband went over and got them--he thought,
well maybe he should go get them.
Mr. JENNER. Did this man have an accent?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Well, he didn't talk like a southerner, I tell you that,
because there's a difference there, isn't there? Anyway, when he
came--let me tell you this--she came with him and he used the phone.
Mr. JENNER. You advised Oswald that a call had been received?
Mrs. TOBIAS. My husband went and told him.
Mr. JENNER. The man was named George?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Then, he wanted to come back and use the phone.
Mr. JENNER. He did come back and use the phone?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Yes; he came back and wanted to know if he could use the
phone.
Mr. JENNER. Was anybody with him?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Mrs. Oswald came with him.
Mr. JENNER. Had you met her before?
Mrs. TOBIAS. No; I hadn't--that's what I started to tell you.
Mr. JENNER. Had your husband?
Mrs. TOBIAS. No; he said that was the first he had seen of Mrs. Oswald.
Mr. JENNER. What did she look like?
Mrs. TOBIAS. I think she was real cute then, of course, she had that
pony tail and she wasn't fixed up in those days.
Mr. JENNER. She had a pony tail?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Oh, yes; she had long hair pulled back and she was
very plain. I have seen pictures of her now since and she is really
different.
Mr. JENNER. She has a different hairdo now?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Yes; she's real cute now. Anyway, he talked.
Mr. JENNER. On the telephone?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Yes; and he didn't talk in English at all.
Mr. JENNER. He talked in Russian over the telephone?
Mrs. TOBIAS. I don't know what it was but they never spoke a word of
English.
Mr. JENNER. Was it your impression that he was calling the man who had
called in and asked your husband to tell Oswald that George had called?
Mrs. TOBIAS. He just said to me--I was the one that answered my phone
and I sent my husband over with the message and when he came back--when
he called he did not talk in English--he never spoke a word in English,
he did not, not one--Mr. Oswald didn't.
Mr. JENNER. You mean on this occasion?
Mrs. TOBIAS. At this time.
Mr. JENNER. Over the telephone?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Over the telephone that very time that my husband went
over.
Mr. JENNER. Did she say anything?
Mrs. TOBIAS. She got on the phone later and said something, but she
spoke in another, you know, a foreign language.
Mr. JENNER. She also spoke in a foreign language?