The testimony of Tommy Bargas was taken at 11:35 a.m., on March 30,
1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building,
Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Albert E. Jenner, Jr.,
assistant counsel of the President's Commission. Robert T. Davis,
assistant attorney general of Texas, was present.
Mr. JENNER. Mr. Bargas, do you swear that in the deposition I am about
to take of you that you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth?
Mr. BARGAS. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Will you state your name, please?
Mr. BARGAS. Tommy Bargas, B-a-r-g-a-s [spelling].
Mr. JENNER. And where do you live?
Mr. BARGAS. 301 East Drew, Fort Worth, Tex.
Mr. JENNER. Mr. Bargas, did you receive recently a letter from Mr.
Rankin, the general counsel for the Commission?
Mr. BARGAS. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Is the letter asking you if you would appear and permit
your deposition to be taken, with which was enclosed copies of
Executive Order 11130, creating the Commission, and of Senate Joint
Resolution 137, authorizing the President to appoint and create the
Commission, and also a copy of the rules of procedure of the Commission
for the questioning of witnesses by members of the staff of the
Commission?
Mr. BARGAS. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. I am Albert E. Jenner, Jr., one of the counsel on the legal
staff of the Commission, and Mr. Robert Davis is here, who is a special
assistant attorney general of the State of Texas, and is cooperating
with us and we with him and the attorney general, in the investigation
that the State of Texas is carrying on. Now, you appear voluntarily?
Mr. BARGAS. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And the Commission, as you know, from these papers enclosed
is investigating the tragedy of the assassination of President John
F. Kennedy, and many people have had some contact with various
circumstances and incidents involving persons who may or could have
been involved in turn in that assassination, and we have information
that you had some contact with a man known as Lee Harvey Oswald, and
we would like to inquire of you about that contact. You live in Fort
Worth--how long have you resided in Fort Worth?
Mr. BARGAS. I have lived in Fort Worth all my life.
Mr. JENNER. All of your life?
Mr. BARGAS. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. You are a native Texan?
Mr. BARGAS. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And born and reared in Texas?
Mr. BARGAS. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And did you, during his lifetime, come to know a man by
the name of Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. BARGAS. I only knew him when he went to work for Louv-R-Pak Weather
Co.
Mr. JENNER. But you did have a contact--you came to know him?
Mr. BARGAS. Yes; I did.
Mr. JENNER. At some contact you came to know him, whatever the case
might be?
Mr. BARGAS. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. How long have you been employed by Leslie Welding Co.?
Mr. BARGAS. I been employed with them ever since 1962.
Mr. JENNER. And does that include the year 1962?
Mr. BARGAS. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. By whom were you employed during the year prior thereto?
Mr. BARGAS. Louv-R-Pak.
Mr. JENNER. L-o-u-v-R-P-a-k [spelling]. I take it, then, that somewhere
along the line a company known as Louv-R-Pak merged into or associated
with Leslie Welding Co.?
Mr. BARGAS. That's right.
Mr. JENNER. And you, as an employee of Louv-R-Pak then became
automatically an employee of Leslie Welding Co.?
Mr. BARGAS. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Is Louv-R-Pak a division of the Leslie Welding Co.?
Mr. BARGAS. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And tell us, at least in general, what is the business of
Leslie Welding Co.?
Mr. BARGAS. Leslie Welding Co. manufactures louvers and ventilators for
attics, houses--commercial and residential.
Mr. JENNER. What was the business of Louv-R-Pak?
Mr. BARGAS. Louv-R-Pak is the same line.
Mr. JENNER. It was the same line?
Mr. BARGAS. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. I use the present tense when I refer to Leslie Welding Co.,
that is, what is its business--was that that you have described its
business in 1962?
Mr. BARGAS. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And thereafter as well, to the present time?
Mr. BARGAS. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Now, tell me, if you will, your particular connection with
first--Louv-R-Pak and then Leslie Welding Co.?
Mr. BARGAS. Well, I was at Louv-R-Pak just a regular employee, and
then in Leslie Welding, after it was purchased by Leslie Welding
Co.--Louv-R-Pak was--then, after a short time I became foreman down
there.
Mr. JENNER. Foreman in the Louv-R-Pak division of the Leslie Welding
Co.?
Mr. BARGAS. Right, sir.
Mr. JENNER. What kind of work was under your supervision and direction
as a foreman?
Mr. BARGAS. As a foreman it was total supervision of the plant. In
other words--assign men to their jobs and see that they carried them
out.
Mr. JENNER. Did you do any hiring of people?
Mr. BARGAS. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And discharging of people?
Mr. BARGAS. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. I take it that the making of these louvers involves welding
and sheet metal work?
Mr. BARGAS. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. What kind of work is that--is that forming, and cutting and
stripping and punching?
Mr. BARGAS. Spot welding and resistance welding was all they use.
Mr. JENNER. Spot welding and resistance welding?
Mr. BARGAS. Resistance welding and spot welding is the same thing.
Mr. JENNER. Does the sheet metal come in size or do you have to form it
in some fashion?
Mr. BARGAS. We have to form it in various different sizes to
specifications called for.
Mr. JENNER. And then, the louvers are spot welded and placed--they are
moved up and down in various directions, are they?
Mr. BARGAS. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Does Leslie Welding Co. have any plants other than in Fort
Worth?
Mr. BARGAS. It has one in Atlanta, Ga.
Mr. JENNER. Is its home office located here or in Atlanta, Ga.?
Mr. BARGAS. No, sir; it is located in Chicago.
Mr. JENNER. In Chicago proper or some suburb of Chicago?
Mr. BARGAS. In a suburb.
Mr. JENNER. Is that Melrose Park or Franklin Park?
Mr. BARGAS. Franklin Park.
Mr. JENNER. Have you ever been up there?
Mr. BARGAS. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Are there any production facilities there at Franklin Park?
Mr. BARGAS. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. That's near O'Hare Field?
Mr. BARGAS. It is near to O'Hare Field.
Mr. JENNER. And, near Mannheim Road--I think Mannheim Road bisects
Franklin Park, doesn't it?
Mr. BARGAS. I'm not too familiar with it, but I did travel on Mannheim
Road. I remember that, but I'm not too familiar with the area.
Mr. JENNER. Did someone by the name of Lee Harvey Oswald ever work for
Leslie Welding Co. here in Fort Worth?
Mr. BARGAS. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Did you have anything to do with that?
Mr. BARGAS. In what manner? In what respect?
Mr. JENNER. Well, did you hire him, for example?
Mr. BARGAS. Well, he came down--we called in for men at the Texas
employment office and they sent him down and naturally he was
interviewed.
Mr. JENNER. Did you do the calling in?
Mr. BARGAS. I don't do the calling in, no.
Mr. JENNER. You told somebody working for you or under your direction
to call the Texas Employment Agency?
Mr. BARGAS. Well, the secretary called.
Mr. JENNER. At your direction, however?
Mr. BARGAS. Right.
Mr. JENNER. And what did you tell her you wanted in the way of an
employee?
Mr. BARGAS. I wanted a suitable employee that we could train that had
some sheet metal experience, that we could train--that was willing to
learn, starting at a low grade.
Mr. JENNER. When was this?
Mr. BARGAS. I do not know exactly the date.
Mr. JENNER. I have a date in my notes of July 17, 1962, does that
approximate it?
Mr. BARGAS. That's approximately right.
Mr. JENNER. It was in 1962?
Mr. BARGAS. I believe it was.
Mr. JENNER. And it was in July sometime?
Mr. BARGAS. Sometime in July.
Mr. JENNER. Along about the middle of July? Is that correct?
Mr. BARGAS. Yes; somewhere around in there.
Mr. JENNER. In response to this message that had been transmitted to
the Texas State Employment Agency, somebody by the name of Lee Oswald
came to your place of business, to the factory, and you had made it
clear through your secretary, who called on your behalf, that you were
seeking somebody who was going to start at the bottom, to be trained,
that if he had some sheet metal experience that would be fine?
Mr. BARGAS. That's right.
Mr. JENNER. But, whoever this employee or prospective employee would
be, would start at a low rate and it would be contemplated that he
would be trained?
Mr. BARGAS. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Now, Lee Oswald came on the scene--do you recall your
meeting with him?
Mr. BARGAS. No--not very distinctly--no.
Mr. JENNER. Do you relatively frequently have occasion to seek new
employees?
Mr. BARGAS. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. This was not out of the ordinary?
Mr. BARGAS. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. It was just in the regular course of business?
Mr. BARGAS. Right.
Mr. JENNER. And neither the nature of the employment, nor the man
himself in either respect--was there anything unusual or particular
about it?
Mr. BARGAS. No--none whatever.
Mr. JENNER. And tell us about that meeting, to the extent you can
recall it.
Mr. BARGAS. Well, it's pretty hard because I meet so many people that's
come in and out.
Mr. JENNER. I appreciate that--it may be important to us, Mr. Bargas,
that your recollection is exactly what it is, that this employment was
just the usual, ordinary sort of thing and that he didn't impress you
greatly--don't you be embarrassed at all--all we want to find out from
you is what your personal recollection is and what you remember, that's
all.
It may be just as important to us that you remember very little,
because it was not extraordinary, as your remembering something
particular about it. Give us what you now recall took place.
Mr. BARGAS. Well, the only thing that I remember taking place was him
coming into the plant.
Mr. JENNER. And he came to see you--or he was directed to you?
Mr. BARGAS. He was directed to me, and he came in and I gave him an
application to fill out and we talked and I gave him instructions of
what I expected of the men when he came to be employed there.
Mr. JENNER. Would you tell us as best you can now recall that
conversation--what you told him--what did you expect, what did you say
to him that you expected?
Mr. BARGAS. Well, I have three basic rules that I go by--one, is that I
expect a man to be there on time and I expect him, when he punches in
in the morning to be prepared to work, and if he is going to be absent
for any reason at all, I expect him to call in in the morning before
10 o'clock which is one of our company rules, and then I went along
stating what he would be doing, where he would be working----
Mr. JENNER. All right, tell us what you said to him, in substance.
Mr. BARGAS. What I said to him in substance probably was--I usually
tell them, "You will be working in this department," and----
Mr. JENNER. Which department?
Mr. BARGAS. The turbine department.
Mr. JENNER. The turbine department?
Mr. BARGAS. The turbine department, and that's another ventilator which
we make, and this ventilator requires a little cutting to do with the
shears, and he told me that he had had sheet metal experience while he
was in the service.
Mr. JENNER. All right, go ahead.