The testimony of Everett D. Glover was taken at 11 a.m., on March 24,
1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building,
Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Albert E. Jenner, Jr.,
assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. JENNER. Mr. Glover, would you stand? Do you promise to tell the
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth in response to my
questions in the taking now of your deposition?
Mr. GLOVER. I do.
Mr. JENNER. Mr. Glover, you have received, I think, sometime last week
a letter from Mr. Rankin, general counsel for the Commission, advising
you we desire to take your testimony by deposition.
Mr. GLOVER. Advising me that you wanted to take my testimony. I don't
know whether it was specifically deposition, but yes.
Mr. JENNER. Now the Commission has been established to investigate and
report all the circumstances surrounding the assassination of President
Kennedy and any participation by Lee Harvey Oswald and Marina Oswald
and others in that tragic event.
We understand that you had some acquaintance with the Oswalds as well
as people in the community who, in turn, had an acquaintance with
the Oswald's, and that you also had an acquaintance with George De
Mohrenschildt, naming him in particular, although there are others I
will probably examine you about. But it is in those general areas that
I will proceed.
Now you are at liberty to have counsel present should you so desire,
and since you don't appear to have anybody with you, I assume you do
not wish any counsel?
Mr. GLOVER. That's right.
Mr. JENNER. Your name is Everett D. Glover?
Mr. GLOVER. Right.
Mr. JENNER. Do you reside in Dallas, Tex.?
Mr. GLOVER. Right.
Mr. JENNER. Where is your present residence?
Mr. GLOVER. My present residence is 9838 Webbs Chapel Road, Dallas, 20.
Mr. JENNER. How long have you resided there, sir?
Mr. GLOVER. Since January 1, of this year, 1964.
Mr. JENNER. Where did you reside immediately prior to that?
Mr. GLOVER. 5723 Southwestern Boulevard. I forget the zone in Dallas.
Mr. JENNER. How long had you resided there?
Mr. GLOVER. Sometime around April 20, of 1963.
Mr. JENNER. I will have to keep going back. Where did you live prior to
that?
Mr. GLOVER. I lived at 4449 Potomac in Dallas also. It is in University
Park.
Mr. JENNER. For what span of time?
Mr. GLOVER. Span of time there, I don't have the figures right in my
mind, but approximately 2 years there.
Mr. JENNER. That would take you back to sometime in 1961?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes. We'd have to check these to be sure, this is
approximately.
Mr. JENNER. That is sufficient. I will ask you this general question.
Over how long have you resided in Dallas or the Dallas area?
Mr. GLOVER. Since 1955. June 2, 1955, I took a position with Socony
Mobil Oil Co. and came here to work on that day. I have lived here
since that time.
Mr. JENNER. Are you married?
Mr. GLOVER. I am married; yes.
Mr. JENNER. Do you have a family?
Mr. GLOVER. Well, I am married for the second time at the present
time. My former wife and a son by my former marriage are living in
Pennsylvania.
Mr. JENNER. Of what country are you a native?
Mr. GLOVER. United States.
Mr. JENNER. You were born in the United States?
Mr. GLOVER. Oh, yes.
Mr. JENNER. How old are you?
Mr. GLOVER. 47 years old.
Mr. JENNER. Where were you born in the United States?
Mr. GLOVER. I was born in Worcester, Mass. I resided in Millbury,
Mass., but I was actually born in the city of Worcester.
Mr. JENNER. Tell me about your education, please. Elementary school and
high school and if you went beyond high school.
Mr. GLOVER. Yes; I went to college at North Clark University in
Worcester, Mass., and I later went to the University of Wisconsin.
I completed a master's degree there and a great deal of work on a
doctor's degree.
Mr. JENNER. So you have a bachelor of arts degree?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And master's degree and you have completed a good deal of
work on a Ph. D.?
Mr. GLOVER. Right.
Mr. JENNER. You were first married when?
Mr. GLOVER. 1940.
Mr. JENNER. Where were you residing then?
Mr. GLOVER. At that time I was residing in Worcester, Mass.
Mr. JENNER. What was your wife's maiden name?
Mr. GLOVER. The name was Mary Elizabeth Butler.
Mr. JENNER. She was a resident of Worcester, was she?
Mr. GLOVER. She was a resident of Worcester.
Mr. JENNER. And was a native-born American?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes; she was.
Mr. JENNER. How many children do you have by that marriage?
Mr. GLOVER. I have one.
Mr. JENNER. He is with his mother, is he?
Mr. GLOVER. He is with his mother now in Pennsylvania; yes.
Mr. JENNER. That marriage was terminated in divorce when?
Mr. GLOVER. In Texas last year, 1963, in June, I believe it was, the
29th.
Mr. JENNER. All right, had you been separated from your wife prior to
that time?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes; I had been separated.
Mr. JENNER. When did the separation occur?
Mr. GLOVER. The separation occurred on approximately September 1 of
1962.
Mr. JENNER. Where were you residing then?
Mr. GLOVER. I was residing at 4449 Potomac.
Mr. JENNER. Did your wife leave this vicinity then?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes; she left this vicinity then.
Mr. JENNER. And returned to where or went to where?
Mr. GLOVER. She didn't return. The circumstances of her leaving were
that my son is very interested avocationally in ice skating, and he had
earned enough money selling the Times Herald, the local newspaper, to
take him for 1 summer's ice skating, and it so happened that he ended
up in Hershey, Pa., which has a teacher or pro who is very good, and
the circumstances just happened that way.
Mr. JENNER. Indoor arena rink?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes; he stayed there for the summer and he wanted to stay
there beyond that time very badly. He wanted to continue his ice
skating under some such situation as he had there, and my wife and I
had not gotten along too well, and it seemed like a natural time to
make a separation, so she left and went to Pennsylvania during this
time at approximately the end of the summer and stayed there, and I
filed for a divorce.
Again I am not sure of the actual date, but approximately December 1
of that year, 1962. And the divorce was granted in the summer in 1963,
approximately June 29, of 1963.
Mr. JENNER. And you remarried when?
Mr. GLOVER. I remarried August the 26th of this same year, 1963.
Mr. JENNER. And remained in the same quarters, did you?
Mr. GLOVER. No; I moved about April 20 to 5723 Southwestern Boulevard
after having sold the house at 4449 Potomac, which I owned, and made
the divorce settlement.
Then I moved to 5723 Southwestern Boulevard where I rented a house with
two colleagues of mine where I worked, who were all unattached, since
I had to move from 4449 Potomac. One moved in on December 1, 1962, and
another one on January 1, 1963.
Mr. JENNER. Now when you and your wife separated, that is when she went
to Pennsylvania, Hershey, Pa., with her son for this period, did anyone
join you in your quarters as roommates or persons living with you?
Mr. GLOVER. Well, these are the people I just referred to. One man,
Richard L. Pierce, who works with me in the same section of my
laboratory, joined me December 1, of 1962, and the second man, Volkmar
Schmidt, who came from Germany and worked with the company as a
geologist, came to live with me approximately January 1.
It was an arrangement we tried out to see if there would be mutual
satisfaction.
Mr. JENNER. Do you have a German derivation?
Mr. GLOVER. I do not.
Mr. JENNER. What is yours?
Mr. GLOVER. My background on that respect, my derivation would be
English on both sides. I know on the Glover side it is English and goes
back down to the 1700, but I don't know the other side very well.
Mr. JENNER. All right. What is your occupation, profession, business or
avocation?
Mr. GLOVER. Well, occupation is as a chemist working with the geology
group in the exploration section of Socony Mobil Oil Co., Field
Research Laboratory here in Dallas.
Mr. JENNER. Your master's degree was in what?
Mr. GLOVER. It was in soil science.
Mr. JENNER. Involved chemistry?
Mr. GLOVER. Involved chemistry of fine grain material such as soil,
sediments, and so forth.
This is the reason that I am working where I am, because of the kind
of work I do, in the geology section. It is not soil per se, but using
techniques in dealing with problems similar to soil problems.
Mr. JENNER. And in turn, related to the discovery or production or
recovery of oil?
Mr. GLOVER. It is related particularly to the exploration for oil. That
is the study of the mechanical constituents of rocks in which the oil
is found.
I would say involving research work in order to find some more easily
recognized signs of oil. That is the long term objective.
Mr. JENNER. I would say this to you, sir. It is common that witnesses
can, especially in this type of examination where the witness sits
across the desk from a questioner, to drop his voice. So to the extent
that you can recall it, you won't do it all the time, keep your voice
up.
Mr. GLOVER. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Are you acquainted with a Mr. George De Mohrenschildt?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes; I am.
Mr. JENNER. When and under what circumstances did you first become
acquainted with Mr. George De Mohrenschildt?
Mr. GLOVER. Again this is connected with my ice skating activities
which I didn't mention. I mentioned my son's.
One of my avocations is ice skating. I do not know the exact time,
but sometime in the period, I would say 1956 to 1959, when I have
been ice skating, I met Mrs. De Mohrenschildt on the ice rink skating
by herself. She skated a considerable time, maybe, probably, part of
a year, and then later she brought Mr. De Mohrenschildt there, and
that is the first acquaintance I had with them. This was a casual
acquaintance.
Mr. JENNER. Is this the present Mrs. De Mohrenschildt?
Mr. GLOVER. This is the present Mrs. De Mohrenschildt.
Mr. JENNER. Was she then married to Mr. De Mohrenschildt?
Mr. GLOVER. I have no way of knowing. I wouldn't have thought of this
particularly except in conversation with the FBI. By their reaction,
what he said, apparently there was some question about this, but I
wouldn't have known that myself. I assumed she was.
Mr. JENNER. Well, in order that we are certain we have the same lady in
mind, did you learn what her first name was?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes. The name she wanted to be called was "Jon," the French
J-e-a-n-n-e.
I didn't see it written down, but she insisted on her being called
"Jon," the French.
Mr. JENNER. By American, it is Jeanne?
Mr. GLOVER. Jeanne, right.
Mr. JENNER. When you talk about ice skating, you mean figure skating?
Mr. GLOVER. Figure skating; right.
Mr. JENNER. This relationship, at least for a time, was relatively
casual?
Mr. GLOVER. It was very casual. In fact, they did not seem very much
interested in other people.
Mr. JENNER. Did that acquaintance ripen eventually into a friendship,
or at least a closer relationship than that you have indicated?
Mr. GLOVER. Well, there are two phases of my acquaintance with them.
The first phase ended when they didn't come to the skating rink any
more, and I cannot recall when this was. But if it were necessary to
find out, I could possibly find out more in detail, because they joined
the Dallas Figure Skating Club which I belonged to, and it was after I
had belonged to that organization a year or so that they left.
Mr. JENNER. Would you give me for the moment your best recollection as
to when the first period of time to which you have reference ended?
Mr. GLOVER. Ended?
Mr. JENNER. That is, the casual acquaintance.
Mr. GLOVER. I really honestly don't know when that was.
Mr. JENNER. Maybe we can get at it this way. What is your present
recollection as to the intervening span in which you had either little
or no contact with the De Mohrenschildts? How long did that run?
Mr. GLOVER. Well, I know when I met them--I think I know when I met
them again. This was in connection with playing tennis. And that must
have been in the spring, I believe, of 1962, sometime in that period.
Mr. JENNER. You and your former wife were still living together at that
time?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes, that's right; my former wife was still in Dallas.
Mr. JENNER. Would you say that the intervening period when you had a
little or no contact with the De Mohrenschildts covered as much as a
couple of years?
Mr. GLOVER. I would say that is what I think, but I could check this
point if necessary.
Mr. JENNER. We will let you know as to whether we want you to do that.
That acquaintance was then renewed under what circumstances?
Mr. GLOVER. I went to a party at a friend's house one night.
Mr. JENNER. Who is the friend?
Mr. GLOVER. The man's name is Lauriston C. Marshall.
Mr. JENNER. That is a new name to me.
Mr. GLOVER. Well, he is called Larry, but his name, I am quite sure,
was----
Mr. JENNER. L-a-u-r-i-s-t-o-n C. M-a-r-s-h-a-l-l?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mr. GLOVER. He lived in Garland here.
Mr. JENNER. Garland, Tex.?
Mr. GLOVER. Right. This is not where I met the De Mohrenschildts, but
that is the connection. I was at his house and I met Sam Ballen. And
something was said about playing tennis, and it turns out that he likes
to play tennis and I also like to play tennis. I hadn't played very
much since I had been in Dallas, but I always wanted to play more than
I had a chance to, and he said, "How about tomorrow morning?" and I
agreed, okay.
So when I went to play tennis the next morning, it turned out that the
other two people involved in this match of four people, doubles, was
the De Mohrenschildts.
Mr. JENNER. You played doubles in tennis with him the next morning,
Sunday morning?
Mr. GLOVER. This sounds right. I believe it was a Saturday night party,
and I was playing Sunday morning. I believe that is what it was.
Mr. JENNER. And your friendship with the De Mohrenschildts blossomed?
Mr. GLOVER. Well, we played tennis an awful lot more. That was the
basis.
Mr. JENNER. You say the double, the lady who played tennis with you on
that initial occasion, was the same lady who had accompanied Mr. De
Mohrenschildt earlier on the ice rink?
Mr. GLOVER. That's correct.
Mr. JENNER. Will you tell me, please, and I want you to tell me in your
own words. I will try not to interrupt you, or at least I will keep it
to a minimum, what you learned about George De Mohrenschildt first?
Mr. GLOVER. You mean what I learned about him from my complete
acquaintance with him?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mr. GLOVER. What he was like and so forth?
Mr. JENNER. What he was like, what you learned from him, if you can
indicate information you received directly from him as to his travels,
if any, as to his work, as to any associations he had.
Mr. GLOVER. Well, it is pretty hard to produce some order out of it,
because I never got a complete picture. But he had apparently, and I
believe this to be true, had come back from a trip to South America. I
mean to Mexico where he had walked from the north edge of Mexico down
to Central America, to Panama.
Mr. JENNER. Your information in this respect was obtained directly from
him?
Mr. GLOVER. Directly from him and also by films which he had showing
his trip, and also the fact that he apparently corresponded with Sam
Ballen during the time that he had been down there, and that was
mentioned, the fact that he had corresponded.
Mr. JENNER. Who mentioned it, Ballen or De Mohrenschildt?
Mr. GLOVER. I couldn't be sure about that, sir, but from one or the
other people, I am sure I got the distinct impression that they
corresponded.
He sent letters to Sam Ballen during the time he was there, so I do
believe, and I have no reason not to believe, that he made such a trip,
seeing the film.
Mr. JENNER. You saw the film?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. You also talked to Mr. De Mohrenschildt, or he with you?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. You had conversations with him about his trip to Mexico,
and he told you about it?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Did he exhibit the film?
Mr. GLOVER. He exhibited the film.
Mr. JENNER. Was Mrs. De Mohrenschildt the lady called Jeanne and who
preferred to be called "Jon" (Jeanne)?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Was she present when the film was shown?
Mr. GLOVER. She was present.
Mr. JENNER. And you also had conversation with her?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. JENNER. Did she confirm, as well as Mr. De Mohrenschildt, their
trip, walking trip into Mexico?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Was anything said about the De Mohrenschildts, either of
them having any--having met any officials with the Soviet Union?
Mr. GLOVER. During that trip?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mr. GLOVER. No, sir; not that I remember.
Mr. JENNER. Not at all?
Mr. GLOVER. Nothing was said.
Mr. JENNER. You have no impression on that score, then?
Mr. GLOVER. I cannot remember any such thing was said.
Mr. JENNER. I take it then, it is your impression that this was a
walking pleasure trip, a vacation, that sort of thing in which he and
Mrs. De Mohrenschildt traveled from the border--that would be the north
border of Mexico down as far as Panama?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes, but I would amend your statement a little bit. You
said pleasure trip. It was in a sense, the way I understood the reason
for this was, that De Mohrenschildt had a son and daughter by his,
according to him, I believe, last marriage. The son had died of cystic
fibrosis, and I had the impression that he was very much attached to
his son, and this was one of the reasons that he sort of threw up
everything. I had been given to believe he was in the oil consulting
business.
Mr. JENNER. You were given to believe that De Mohrenschildt was in the
oil consulting business?
Mr. GLOVER. Previous to that and after that time, too, and that he had
thrown everything up and done this. He said that he and someone else
started to make this trip at a much earlier time. I am not sure what
time it was, but it was a long time. Seems to me he said they tried to
drive a Model "T" Ford and hadn't been successful.
Mr. JENNER. That would be quite a long time ago?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes. That might be older than De Mohrenschildt is. I don't
know when he came here, really, of course.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mr. GLOVER. But anyway, maybe it is a Model "A" Ford. I really am not
sure about that point. It doesn't sound right, a Model "T" Ford.