The CHAIRMAN. Go ahead.
Senator BRANDEGEE. Did you read any of these minutes of the meetings
of the American commission?
Mr. BULLITT. Of the American commission itself?
Senator BRANDEGEE. Yes.
Mr. BULLITT. No, sir. I have on one or two occasions glanced at them
but I never have read them carefully.
Senator BRANDEGEE. They were accessible to you at the time, were they?
Mr. BULLITT. They were, sir.
Senator BRANDEGEE. You stated, if I recall your testimony correctly,
that when the proposition was made that the legislative bodies of the
contracting parties should have representation in the assembly, the
President objected to that?
Mr. BULLITT. The President--if I may explain again--approved in
principle, but said that he did not see how the thing could be worked
out, and he felt that the assembly of delegates, or whatever it is
called in the present draft, gave sufficient representation to the
peoples of the various countries.
Senator BRANDEGEE. Do you know what his objection was to the
legislative bodies of the contracting parties having representation on
the assembly?
Mr. BULLITT. The President believed, I think--in fact, it was so
stated to me by Col. House, who discussed the matter with me--that it
would make too unwieldy a central organ for the league.
Senator BRANDEGEE. Do you understand why it would be any more unwieldy
if Congress should appoint the delegates than if the President should?
Mr. BULLITT. It would necessitate a larger central body if
representation was to be given to the important political parties of
the various countries. It would have necessitated a body of, say, 10
representatives from the United States--5 from the Republican party
and 5 from the; Democratic Party, in the assembly of the league, which
would become a large body.
Senator BRANDEGEE. The idea was that the political parties of the
country should be represented?
Mr. BULLITT. Yes, the political viewpoints should be represented so
that you would get some connection between the central assembly of the
league and the true opinion of the countries.
Senator BRANDEGEE. When you went across to Paris on the _George
Washington_ with the President do you know whether he had with him at
that time any draft for a league of nations or any memorandum that he
showed to you of discussed with you?
Mr. BULLITT. The President outlined to several of us one evening, or
rather one afternoon, the conception he had at the time of the league
of nations. I did not see any formal draft that he had, but the
President made a statement before the council of 10, in one of these
minutes from which I have been reading, stating that he had first--and
in fact I think I know it from other sources--that he had first
received the Phillimore report, that then it had been rewritten by
Col. House and that he had rewritten Col. House's report, and after he
had discussed his rewriting with Robert Cecil and Gen. Smuts, he had
rewritten it again.
Senator BRANDEGEE. You stated substantially that the only part of the
league draft which was laid before the Peace Conference which the
President had his way about, was Article 10. Did you make some such
statement as that?
Mr. BULLITT. Yes, sir.
Senator BRANDEGEE. The President stated to us that that was
practically what he had submitted to the Niagara conference here when
the ABC powers from South America were discussing the Mexican
question. He had then considered it as an article for American use on
this continent.
Do you know what the attitude of Gen Smuts was as to article 10 as
proposed by the President?
Mr. BULLITT. I do not, sir. Again, full minutes of the discussions and
conclusions reached of all these meetings of the committee on the
league of nations were kept.
Senator BRANDEGEE. Did you read the various other plans that were
proposed or suggested over there for a league of nations?
Mr. BULLITT. I have read some of them, sir.
Senator BRANDEGEE. Did the others have anything similar to what is now
article 10 in the treaty pending in the Senate?
Mr. BULLITT. I really can not say. I am sorry, but I have forgotten. I
should not care to testify on that.
Senator BRANDEGEE. Do you know from what you heard while you were
there in your official capacity whether the other nations were anxious
to have article 10 in the covenant for the league?
Mr. BULLITT. The French were not only anxious for it, but I believe
were anxious greatly to strengthen it. They desired immediately a
league army to be established, and I believe also to be stationed in
Alsace-Lorraine and along the Rhine, in addition to article 10. I can
not say for certain about the others.
The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Bullitt, we had before us at one of our hearings a
representative of the Egyptian people. Do you know anything about
that, when it was done, or any discussions about it? I mean the
clauses that appear in regard to the British protectorate.
Mr. BULLITT. You mean our agreement to recognize the British
protectorate in Egypt?
The CHAIRMAN. It was recognized by this treaty in those clauses.
Mr. BULLITT. Yes; but we gave a sort of assent before the treaty
formally came out, did we not? I recall the morning it was done. It
was handled by Sir William Wiseman, who was the confidential
representative that Lloyd George and Balfour had constantly with Col.
House and the President. He was a sort of extra confidential foreign
office. It was all done, if I recall his statement correctly, in the
course of one morning. The President was informed that the Egyptian
nationalists were using his 14 points as meaning that the President
thought that Egypt should have the right to control her own destinies,
and therefore have independence, and that they were using this to
foment revolution; that since the President had provoked this trouble
by the 14 points, they thought that he should allay it by the
statement that we would recognize the British protectorate, and as I
remember Sir William Wiseman's statement to me that morning, he said
that he had only brought up the matter that morning and that he had
got our recognition of the British protectorate before luncheon.
The CHAIRMAN. The President made some public statement?
Mr. BULLITT. I am not certain in regard to the further developments of
it. I recall that incident, that it was arranged through Sir William
Wiseman, and that it took only a few minutes.
Senator KNOX. That was a good deal of time to devote to a little
country like Egypt.
Mr. BULLITT. I do not know. You should know, sir, you have been
Secretary of State.
Senator KNOX. We never chewed them up that fast.
Senator NEW. Mr. Bullitt, what, if anything, was said with reference
to the Irish question, with which you are familiar?
Mr. BULLITT. At the conference? I do not believe the Irish question
was ever brought up before the conference or discussed. There was
considerable said on the side, attempts to let down the Walsh mission
easily without antagonizing the Irish vote in this country.
[Laughter.] I think that is the only consideration that Ireland
received.
Senator NEW. There was a cheerful willingness to do that, was there
not?
Mr. BULLITT. I think so.
The CHAIRMAN. Is there anything further that anybody desires to ask
Mr. Bullitt? We are very much obliged to you indeed, Mr. Bullitt.
Mr. BULLITT. Mr. Chairman, if I may just say--I do not know whether it
is a matter of first interest to the Senators or not--but on this trip
with me to Russia there was Capt. Pettit, and at the same time the
journalist, Lincoln Steffens, and I have documents which they prepared
and which might be of interest to the committee.
The CHAIRMAN. If you will hand those to the stenographer, we will
print them with your testimony.
Senator KNOX. What are your plans, Mr. Bullitt? What are you going to
do in this country now?
Mr. BULLITT. I expect to return to Maine and fish for trout, where I
was when I was summoned by the committee.
Senator BRANDEGEE. Did Mr. Steffens go to Russia with you?
Mr. BULLITT. He did.
The CHAIRMAN. He held no official position?
Mr. BULLITT. No.
Senator BRANDEGEE. Who advised him to go?
Mr. BULLITT. I did.
Senator BRANDEGEE. Is he in the country now?
Mr. BULLITT. I do not believe so. I believe he is still in Europe.