Mr. PAUL. He’s dead.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he mention having called him at that time--he was dead
at that time?
Mr. PAUL. Yes--Marty Goble or Grable or something like that. He died
in Chicago the night of the fight of the first--this and the champion
fight--Marty Grable.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, this is Gimble or Gruble?
Mr. PAUL. Oh--Marty Gruble--I don’t know.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, did he mention Marty Gruble or any person named
Gruble?
Mr. PAUL. No; I wouldn’t know who he is if he did.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, that may be so, but what I want to know is whether he
mentioned that name to you?
Mr. PAUL. No; I don’t recall.
Mr. HUBERT. Did Ruby mention to you on that Friday night or on that
Friday afternoon in any of those calls that he was going to the
synagogue that night?
Mr. PAUL. I don’t recall whether it was that evening or late at night
that he told me that he went to the synagogue.
Mr. HUBERT. He didn’t invite you to go with him?
Mr. PAUL. I don’t go to the synagogue.
Mr. HUBERT. I know, but did he invite you to go with him?
Mr. PAUL. No; he knows I’ll be working.
Mr. HUBERT. He called you about 8:40 that evening, didn’t he?
Mr. PAUL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. You were working then?
Mr. PAUL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. You had just gone back to work?
Mr. PAUL. No--yes, I came back to work. I come back to work at 5
o’clock.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you remember what the nature of that call was, that’s on
Friday night?
Mr. PAUL. That’s when he told me he was going to close it down for 3
days.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, I thought he had mentioned that to you in the call
during the afternoon?
Mr. PAUL. No; in the afternoon he didn’t mention about closing it down,
but that night--early in the evening, I think, is when he told me he
was going to close it down. I think it was when he called me at 6
o’clock that evening, when I first came back to the place.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, apparently there were three calls on Friday, is that
correct? There was one right after the President was shot and one at
about 2:45 or a quarter to 3, and then another one later?
Mr. PAUL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you remember there were three calls?
Mr. PAUL. I remember five calls.
Mr. HUBERT. On Saturday?
Mr. PAUL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. When were the other two?
Mr. PAUL. He called me at home.
Mr. HUBERT. What time were the other two?
Mr. PAUL. About a quarter to 11 and I told him I wasn’t feeling well,
and----
Mr. HUBERT. What did he want you to do?
Mr. PAUL. Nothing--he just told me that he was over at his sister’s
house and he went to the synagogue.
Mr. HUBERT. And you were at home at that time?
Mr. PAUL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And he called you once more?
Mr. PAUL. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. And what time was that?
Mr. PAUL. Oh, about 11:30 or about--about 12 o’clock, maybe a quarter
of 12, and I was in bed and I told him he woke me up, and he was
telling me that nobody downtown did any business on account of that,
and I said to him, “Jack, I’m sick. Please don’t call me no more.”
Mr. HUBERT. Was he rather sore at you because you kept your place open?
Mr. PAUL. Not especially. I don’t think so. I didn’t see him after that.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he mention to you that he had gone to the Pago Club, in
any of those calls at all?
Mr. PAUL. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. He never mentioned that to you whatsoever?
Mr. PAUL. No; he never mentioned it to me. If I’m not with him, he
don’t tell me where he goes.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he ever tell you that he had been to the police
department on Friday night and had been up in the showup room and so
forth?
Mr. PAUL. No; but he told me that he brought some coffee over, I think,
Saturday night, to the KLIF diskjockeys in the conversation.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he ever talk to you about the Bernard Weissman
advertisement that he was so upset about?
Mr. PAUL. Yes; he mentioned that in the paper and he said he was going
to ride up on the expressway and see it.
Mr. HUBERT. When did he say that to you?
Mr. PAUL. I don’t recall whether it was Friday night or Saturday night.
Mr. HUBERT. But it was nighttime?
Mr. PAUL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you recall his saying to you that his sister, Eva, was
crying?
Mr. PAUL. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. When did he say that?
Mr. PAUL. Saturday night.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you see Tammi True during that weekend of November 22,
23, and 24?
Mr. PAUL. No, sir; the first time I saw Tammi was the 24th and it was
Sunday.
Mr. HUBERT. You saw Tammi, Sunday?
Mr. PAUL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. But you did not speak to her or see her prior to that time
for 4 weeks?
Mr. PAUL. No; the 24th was Sunday.
Mr. HUBERT. Where did you see her and under what circumstances?
Mr. PAUL. On Sunday?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Mr. PAUL. She came over to the place.
Mr. HUBERT. That’s the Bull Pen?
Mr. PAUL. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. That was after Ruby had shot Oswald?
Mr. PAUL. Yes. She was the first one to call me and tell me.
Mr. HUBERT. You were at the Bull Pen all day Friday except when you
went home?
Mr. PAUL. When I went home in the afternoon.
Mr. HUBERT. And on Saturday too?
Mr. PAUL. When I went home in the afternoon and came back at 5 and
stayed until 10.
Mr. HUBERT. That was on Saturday?
Mr. PAUL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, I want to get into the calls from Ruby on Saturday
night--there were quite a number of them, as I recall it. Do you
remember when the first one was and where did you get it?
Mr. PAUL. The first call was at the Bull Pen.
Mr. HUBERT. And he called you?
Mr. PAUL. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. And where was he, did he say?
Mr. PAUL. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Could you gather from the nature of the conversation, from
what he said, as to where he might have been?
Mr. PAUL. No--I think he said--the only thing I think he said was that
he went to synagogue, and whether he said it then or he said it later,
I don’t recall.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he say anything to you about doing something to Oswald
and getting a gun or anything like that?
Mr. PAUL. No, sir; no sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he mention anything about a gun at all to you on any of
those phone calls?
Mr. PAUL. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know a person by the name of Wanda Helmick or Elwick?
Mr. PAUL. Maybe I do, but I can’t recall the name.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you ever told anybody that Ruby told you that he was
going to get a gun and shoot Oswald?
Mr. PAUL. How could I tell anybody if he didn’t tell me?
Mr. HUBERT. I’m not asking you that--I’m asking you if he did tell you?
Mr. PAUL. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. And you never repeated that to anybody?
Mr. PAUL. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. You never said that to anyone?
Mr. PAUL. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did Ruby at anytime indicate that he was going to take some
action or that some action should be taken by someone with regard to
Oswald?
Mr. PAUL. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you recall talking to Ruby about a gun?
Mr. PAUL. I never even talked to Ruby about Oswald.
Mr. HUBERT. You don’t know who Wanda Helmick is?
Mr. PAUL. Maybe I do, but I don’t recall who she is.
Mr. HUBERT. But the name doesn’t mean anything to you?
Mr. PAUL. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever have any conversation with Ruby where you told
him, “I don’t do such a crazy thing”?
Mr. PAUL. Do I remember the conversation?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes?
Mr. PAUL. I never told him that.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you recall on Sunday morning having made any statement
to anybody concerning a conversation which you had had with Ruby in
which Ruby had made some threats about Oswald and talked about a gun
and you had told him not to be crazy and not to do such a thing, and so
forth?
Mr. PAUL. Now, the man never asked me about it--how could I have told
him about it?
Mr. HUBERT. Well, as I understand your answer, you never did make such
a statement?
Mr. PAUL. That’s right.
Mr. HUBERT. And as I further understand your answer, he never mentioned
to you any such thing at all?
Mr. PAUL. That’s right.
Mr. HUBERT. The records show that you spoke to him again at 11:18 p.m.,
that’s at night?
Mr. PAUL. That’s the time--that’s what I told you. That’s the last time
I talked to him.
Mr. HUBERT. That shows that there were two phone calls?
Mr. PAUL. That’s right.
Mr. HUBERT. One at 10:44?
Mr. PAUL. That’s right.
Mr. HUBERT. That one lasted about 9 minutes?
Mr. PAUL. That’s right.
Mr. HUBERT. And the second one at 11:18, or about a half hour
afterwards, roughly?
Mr. PAUL. Yeah.
Mr. HUBERT. And that one lasted 1 minute?
Mr. PAUL. That’s right. I told him I was sick and I was going to bed
and not to call me.
Mr. HUBERT. And he called you at your house a little later, didn’t he?
Mr. PAUL. Both times at the house. That’s the last two calls.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, he called you twice at the Bull Pen?
Mr. PAUL. Yeah; the second time he called, they told him I went home.
Mr. HUBERT. And then he called you at your house?
Mr. PAUL. Yeah.
Mr. HUBERT. And he spoke to you 3 minutes, and that’s when you told him
you were sick?
Mr. PAUL. The last time--when you said the minute--that’s when I told
him I was sick.
Mr. HUBERT. At 11:36?
Mr. PAUL. I guess so--I guess that was the last time--I didn’t watch
the clock.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he call you after that?
Mr. PAUL. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. How many calls did you get at home from him?
Mr. PAUL. Two.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, the records seem to indicate three--one at 11:19 which
lasted 3 minutes, and another one 15 minutes later, at 11:30, which was
for 2 minutes. The records also show that at 11:18 he called you for 1
minute. He called you for 1 minute at the Bull Pen and that’s when they
probably told him you had gone home, so he immediately placed a call
1 minute later, you see, and spoke to you at your home for 3 minutes,
and then 15 minutes later he called you again, and you spoke to him for
2 minutes, and then at 11:47 he called again and spoke to you for 1
minute. Do you remember the third call?
Mr. PAUL. If he called, I must have been asleep, because I don’t know
that he called the third time.
Mr. HUBERT. Did anybody answer the phone and say you were not there or
were asleep?
Mr. PAUL. No, sir; I was asleep. I really remember two calls. If he
made three calls, I don’t recall it.
Mr. HUBERT. In any of the calls he made to you on Saturday night, did
he mention the name Breck Wall to you?
Mr. PAUL. No, but I know Breck Wall, but he never mentioned Breck Wall.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he mention that he had called Breck Wall that same
night and as a matter of fact, within minutes of having called you?
Mr. PAUL. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. He did not mention anything about Breck Wall at all?
Mr. PAUL. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he tell you that he had called Breck Wall up at
Galveston and spoken to him on long distance?
Mr. PAUL. I don’t recall.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you recall what the conversations were about?
Mr. PAUL. With who?
Mr. HUBERT. Ruby.
Mr. PAUL. With who?
Mr. HUBERT. What were your conversations about with Ruby?
Mr. PAUL. He told me that he was riding all over town and nobody was
doing any business and the Colony Club and Theatre Lounge wasn’t
doing any business, and he told me probably then that he went to the
synagogue and his sister was crying while he was there. That’s the time
he was at his sister’s house.
Mr. HUBERT. That was just after you had gotten home from the Bull Pen?
Mr. PAUL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Then he called you 15 minutes later. What was that about?
He spoke to you about 2 minutes?
Mr. PAUL. I don’t recall.
Mr. HUBERT. Isn’t that the time you told him to leave you alone, that
you were sick?
Mr. PAUL. The last time I told him that. When he called me the last
time I told him that. I think I told him to leave me alone, that I was
sick. I told him I took some hot tea and lemon and went to bed.
Mr. HUBERT. You don’t recall a third call?
Mr. PAUL. I don’t recall.
Mr. HUBERT. And you don’t recall his mentioning Breck Wall whatsoever?
Mr. PAUL. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, I think that on Sunday after Ruby shot Oswald, you
called Tom Howard, is that correct?
Mr. PAUL. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Where did you make that call from?
Mr. PAUL. The Bull Pen.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you make an appointment to see him?
Mr. PAUL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know who answered the phone on the Jackson call on
Sunday?
Mr. PAUL. The Jackson call?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes; do you know a man named Jackson?
Mr. PAUL. He works for me.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he call you on Sunday?
Mr. PAUL. Who?
Mr. HUBERT. Jackson?
Mr. PAUL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Was there a girl who answered the phone?
Mr. PAUL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Who is she?
Mr. PAUL. She was a waitress at the place.
Mr. HUBERT. What is her name and address?
Mr. PAUL. She isn’t there any more, but let me think of her
name--Bonnie.
Mr. HUBERT. Bonnie--and her last name?
Mr. PAUL. I can’t recall it--I can’t think of her last name right
offhand.
Mr. HUBERT. Her nickname was Bonnie?
Mr. PAUL. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Would you have any payroll records that would show what her
full name was?
Mr. PAUL. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Are they still available?
Mr. PAUL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know a man by the name of Lee Berry?
Mr. PAUL. Lee Barrett?
Mr. HUBERT. Berry [spelling] B-e-r-r-y?
Mr. PAUL. Lee Berry--that’s my sister.
Mr. HUBERT. Oh, it’s a lady?
Mr. PAUL. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. And did you call her Sunday morning just before 12 o’clock.
Mr. PAUL. Yes, sir; I call her every other Sunday.
Mr. HUBERT. Was that before you knew about Ruby shooting Oswald or
afterwards?
Mr. PAUL. I think it was before. I’m not too sure, though. The
difference in time, you see, I can’t recall when I called her.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you remember speaking to Ruby on Sunday morning at all?
Mr. PAUL. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you call his apartment?
Mr. PAUL. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Whom did you speak to?
Mr. PAUL. Nobody.
Mr. HUBERT. There was no answer?
Mr. PAUL. That’s right.
Mr. HUBERT. What time was it?
Mr. PAUL. Right after the assassination of Oswald. I was telling Tammi
I couldn’t believe it. I said, “I’ll call the house and I’ll call you
back.”
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, she called you and told you it was Ruby and
then you called Ruby and you got no answer?
Mr. PAUL. No.
Mr. HUBERT. I think you told us before in a prior deposition that you
had gone to see Tom Howard?
Mr. PAUL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. On Sunday morning or rather Sunday afternoon right after
the shooting?
Mr. PAUL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. I think Tammi True took you there?
Mr. PAUL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, isn’t it a fact that you thought that the Dallas
police and the people investigating the whole thing might want to talk
to you?
Mr. PAUL. I didn’t have an inkling at that time whether they would or
not. What I was thinking about was the press.
Mr. HUBERT. How do you mean?
Mr. PAUL. Well, I came back to the place and the girl said, “Somebody
from the press was looking for you.”
Mr. HUBERT. Well, didn’t it occur to you that the police might also
want to interview you if the press did?
Mr. PAUL. That day? Then and there that day?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Mr. PAUL. Well, I wasn’t thinking about it at all.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, are you saying then that the reason why you went to
the theater and so forth and weren’t available was on account of the
press?
Mr. PAUL. Yes; for the press.
Mr. HUBERT. And it was not on account of the police?
Mr. PAUL. That’s right.
Mr. HUBERT. But weren’t you told at one time that the police and the
FBI were looking for you?
Mr. PAUL. I was told the FBI was looking for me.
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Mr. PAUL. And the reason I didn’t want to appear right away was because
of what they did to--what’s his name--that lived with Jack.
Mr. HUBERT. George Senator?
Mr. PAUL. George Senator--they put him in jail.
Mr. HUBERT. When did you find that out?
Mr. PAUL. When I got to town, the same day.
Mr. HUBERT. So, really what you were doing in addition to avoiding the
press, you wanted to avoid being arrested and you thought you might be?
Mr. PAUL. Well, I thought that after what they did to George Senator,
that they might do the same thing to me.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, I can understand your thinking, but is it fair then
to state that what you were doing was making yourself unavailable to
the police as well as unavailable to the press?
Mr. PAUL. That’s right.
Mr. HUBERT. That is, your motivations for not being available were
twofold: You didn’t want to see the press, you wanted to avoid the
press, and you also wanted to avoid the police because you were worried
that they might put you in jail?
Mr. PAUL. That’s right.
Mr. HUBERT. And it’s for that reason that you went to the theater, is
that right?
Mr. PAUL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And finally, of course, I believe it was one of your
friends then that insisted that you should allow yourself to be
interviewed by the FBI, and that finally that occurred about 9 o’clock
at night?
Mr. PAUL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. How did you learn that Senator had been arrested?
Mr. PAUL. I was over at his office--Tom Howard’s office.
Mr. HUBERT. And he told you so?
Mr. PAUL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And you thought that your connection with Ruby was close
enough that you might be arrested too?
Mr. PAUL. That’s right.
Mr. HUBERT. Did Ruby mention the AGVA to you at anytime during these
conversations?
Mr. PAUL. No.
Mr. HUBERT. You know what that is?
Mr. PAUL. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he mention the Weinsteins and the trouble he was having
with them?
Mr. PAUL. That was all the time before.
Mr. HUBERT. Which time before?
Mr. PAUL. Many weeks before--he was having trouble with Weinstein.
Mr. HUBERT. But I mean, did he speak to you about it during any of
these conversations on Friday or Saturday?
Mr. PAUL. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. He did not?
Mr. PAUL. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he talk about Oswald at all?
Mr. PAUL. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. He never mentioned his name?
Mr. PAUL. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Once again, did you ever tell Ruby some such words as,
“You’re crazy,” when he spoke to you on Saturday about doing something?
Mr. PAUL. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. I don’t mean that you used that exact phrase, “You’re
crazy,” but some such phrase to indicate to him your disapproval of
what he was suggesting?
Mr. PAUL. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, you know of course, Karen Bennett. You have just
identified her. Did you know Kathy Kay?
Mr. PAUL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you know Harry Olsen?
Mr. PAUL. The one that married her?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Mr. PAUL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. He was a member of the police department?
Mr. PAUL. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you see any of those people between November 22 and
November 24?
Mr. PAUL. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you talk to them during that time?
Mr. PAUL. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. I understand you called Kathy Kay on the 25th?
Mr. PAUL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the purpose of that?
Mr. PAUL. I asked her if she wanted to come to work at the club.
Mr. HUBERT. You decided to reopen the club?
Mr. PAUL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Who is Pappy Dolson?
Mr. PAUL. A booking agency.
Mr. HUBERT. What was your contract with him for him to do?
Mr. PAUL. To get the acts.
Mr. HUBERT. To do what?
Mr. PAUL. To get me entertainers.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know of a man by the name of A. L. Davis, that had
something to do with the Playboy Club?
Mr. PAUL. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. You never heard that name?
Mr. PAUL. Not that I recall.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you remember speaking to Ruby or referring Ruby to
anybody in connection with the Playboy Club?
Mr. PAUL. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know whether Ruby was interested in opening an
operation similar to the Playboy Club operation?
Mr. PAUL. He didn’t tell me nothing about it.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he tell you about any new plans he had for a nightclub
or a new nightclub?
Mr. PAUL. Oh, that was a couple of months before when he took me to
show me a place that was empty, and he says, “I’ve got an idea,” and I
said to him, “You and your ideas!”
Mr. HUBERT. Did you have any business dealings with your sister, Lee
Berry?
Mr. PAUL. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Of what nature?
Mr. PAUL. I loaned her some money.
Mr. HUBERT. For a business?
Mr. PAUL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And what sort of business?
Mr. PAUL. She’s got a loan office in New Jersey.
Mr. HUBERT. That’s where she lives?
Mr. PAUL. No; she lives in New York.
Mr. HUBERT. And she works in that loan office?
Mr. PAUL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. What is it called, do you know?
Mr. PAUL. It’s a loan office in Lodi and it’s the Pleasant--I had her
card--Pleasant Finance Co.
Mr. HUBERT. Where is it located?
Mr. PAUL. Lodi, N.J.--[spelling] L-o-d-i.
Mr. HUBERT. What is the street address?
Mr. PAUL. 25 Main Street.
Mr. HUBERT. I think you’ve testified before concerning the loan of
$15,000 to Ruby in connection with helping him with his income tax
trouble?
Mr. PAUL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Was that loan made as one loan?
Mr. PAUL. No--a lot of loans.
Mr. HUBERT. It was a buildup, as I remember?
Mr. PAUL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Was that from the time of Joe Bonds and the Sky Club?
Mr. PAUL. No; Joe Bonds had nothing to do with this thing.
Mr. HUBERT. What was your connection with Joe Bonds?
Mr. PAUL. He brought me down to Texas and went partners in this
nightclub.
Mr. HUBERT. And I think you’ve already testified about that?
Mr. PAUL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. The loan to Ruby which eventually got up to $15,000 was not
all in connection with income tax troubles, was it?
Mr. PAUL. No; of course not.
Mr. HUBERT. As I remember, we went through that before?
Mr. PAUL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Mr. Paul, have you ever been a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. PAUL. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you ever been a member of the John Birch Society?
Mr. PAUL. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know how Ruby got hold of some literature that was
found in his car relative to H. L. Hunt, who wrote it? Do you remember
that?
Mr. PAUL. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he ever mention anything to you about that?
Mr. PAUL. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Was he active in politics in any way?
Mr. PAUL. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he ever campaign?
Mr. PAUL. No--no campaigning.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he distribute literature or engage in ward politics or
precinct politics?
Mr. PAUL. Jack had none.
Mr. HUBERT. The answer is “No”?
Mr. PAUL. No.
Mr. HUBERT. What was his attitude toward his religion, do you know?
Mr. PAUL. He was very conscientious about it. You know, like I told
you the first time that when his father died he went a year to the
synagogue every week to pray.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he read any books about Jewish people and the history
of the Jewish people and so forth?
Mr. PAUL. He might have, but I never recall seeing him.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever see any books in his apartment or literature
of that sort?
Mr. PAUL. I don’t think Ruby had any books. I don’t think that Ruby
read anything--well, he read papers. He read every newspaper that was
in Dallas all the time.
Mr. HUBERT. I want to show you two pictures that have been identified
as Exhibits Nos. 1 and 2 of the Deposition of Bruce Carlin and ask you
if you recognize the man who is represented in those two pictures.
Mr. PAUL (examining instruments referred to). I don’t remember any of
them--both of them--I don’t remember them at all. The face don’t even
phase me.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, you don’t recognize the face at all?
Mr. PAUL. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you know Officer J. D. Tippit, the one that was shot by
Oswald?
Mr. PAUL. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. If I tell you now that these are pictures of J. D. Tippit,
that still doesn’t refresh your memory as having seen them at all?
Mr. PAUL. I might have seen them in the paper and didn’t even look
close. [Examining instruments mentioned.]
Mr. HUBERT. To your knowledge, you’ve never seen him?
Mr. PAUL. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, I show you two other pictures that have been
identified as follows: Exhibits Nos. 3 and 4. These are in the
Deposition of Bruce Carlin of August 24, 1964, and ask you if you can
identify the person whose picture appears in those exhibits?
Mr. PAUL (examining instruments mentioned). No.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you ever seen any man that looks like that?
Mr. PAUL. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. I tell you now that these are pictures of Bernard
Weissman--have you ever seen or met this man?
Mr. PAUL. No.
Mr. HUBERT. The answer is “No”?
Mr. PAUL. I don’t know a Bernard Weissman.
Mr. HUBERT. What was that?
Mr. PAUL. I don’t know anybody by the name of Bernard Weissman.
Mr. HUBERT. And you have never seen this man?
Mr. PAUL. Not that I can recall. When you’re at the club and you’re
standing around or walking around and somebody comes in and introduces
himself, and as he says his name it just flies out the window, but I’ll
tell you, Jack had a good memory for names.
Mr. HUBERT. But your answer to me is that so far as your memory serves
you, you don’t recognize him as ever seeing this man, Bernard Weissman,
who is in Exhibits Nos. 3 and 4 of the Deposition of Bruce Carlin?
Mr. PAUL. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, right after you opened the club there and after Oswald
was shot, did you have a man there who was sort of a cashier for you?
Mr. PAUL. Yes; Leo Torti.
Mr. HUBERT. What was his name?
Mr. PAUL. Leo Torti--[spelling] T-o-r-t-i.
Mr. HUBERT. Is he in Dallas?
Mr. PAUL. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know where he is?