to make a buck for the holidays selling Christmas novelties or toys or
gimmicks on the street, you know. It was terrific. I will never forget
that. That is the kind of a guy Jack was. When he wanted a permit he
used to get one.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall any other episodes of that nature?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. There could have been but this was the greatest. It is
a wonder I didn’t get fired. I will never forget that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you working for the Illinois Commerce Commission at
that time?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. I think I was at that time because that was the longest
job I had with the city outside of being with the Board of Local
Improvements for a couple of years.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When was that?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Before the Commerce Commission.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You mention the period 1932 to 1941 as the Commerce
Commission. Are you clear in your mind that that is when you did start
there, in 1932?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. When Horner got in, I think it was 1932.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And before that you worked for?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. The Board of Local Improvements for a couple of years,
sidewalk investigator.
Mr. GRIFFIN. So that would have taken you back to 1930 perhaps?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. About 1930 or even 1929. I will tell you why. As long
as we had connections in Chicago and things were tough, you know 1929
was a bad year, you wouldn’t remember, but I would, as long as you had
a letter from somebody downtown they were reevaluating all the real
estate in Cook County.
Now, you know that is a tremendous job, fellows, and so I got on. They
weren’t paying us too much in salary, but every morning I had to meet
two real estate men, and I measured the buildings, the length and the
width and the lot, and the stories and we gave a legal description of
the building, reevaluation. That kept on for about a year. That was a
pretty good job with the Board of Review.
So that also kept a lot of us fellows from starving. That was before
the Board of Local Improvements. In the meantime I still kept my
fingers in the politics on the good side with the Democrats in Chicago.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Before you worked for the Board of Local Improvements did
you have any government or city or political jobs before that?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. I am telling you that was it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. That was the first one. The Board of Local Improvements
was the first one?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. No, the Board of Review.
Mr. GRIFFIN. So you worked for the Illinois Commerce Commission in
1932, you worked for the Board of Local Improvements----
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. About 1930, and 1929 or 1928, I believe I worked for
the Board of Review.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. Now, between approximately 1922 when you got
out of school and 1928 what did you do during that period?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Worked as a cab driver, worked in a drugstore. I went
on the road as a salesman in 1925.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who did you sell for?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. The Plymouth Rubber Co. of Canton, Mass.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did you sell?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Rubber heels to shoemakers.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where did you travel?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. All over the United States.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long did you do that?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. A couple of years, I think.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did you happen to leave that job?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. I was a missionary man. They broke me in, they tried
to make a salesman out of me and they did, because I done a good job
for them and I worked hard. I liked it, I liked it for two reasons.
Traveling and selling and when you can sell you felt like a moral
victory, you felt that you had a station in life, something to do. The
job just ended. I covered the territory they wanted me to cover. I went
from Chicago to the west coast, Vancouver, Canada, all over the west
coast, all through the Middle West. I don’t think I covered--no, never
went south. I didn’t go south, no. We didn’t cover it. We just covered
the west, kept on going west and west and over to the west coast and up
to Vancouver.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let’s now shift the focus a little bit and rather talk
about yourself. Now let me ask you some questions about your family,
your early family life.
Was there any discussion in your home as a child of the background of
your parents--where they had come from, what they had done before they
had come to this country?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. My father was a soldier in the Russian Army for about
7 years. If you know the history of the Russian people, one member of
each family must serve, one member. My father was elected to serve.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let’s just talk about your father for a minute.
As you understand it where was your father born?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Sokolov, a small town outside of Warsaw.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What kind of family did he come from, do you have any idea?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Very nice family, good reputation. His father before
him was a carpenter, his brother Abraham was a carpenter. Very well
respected.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How many brothers and sisters did he have?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. I don’t know, I don’t know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did any of his family come to the United States other than
him?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. His brother.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Abraham? When did Abraham come?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. I don’t know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Before or after your father?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. I think after.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is Abraham still alive?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Does he have a family that is still living?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Yes; he has a son, a doctor, Dr. Hyman Rubenstein, and
he has got about three or four sisters, very nice, family.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where do they live?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. On the north side.
Mr. GRIFFIN. They are living in Chicago?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. In Chicago.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you see this family from time to time as you were
children?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Very, not as regularly as we should. We should have
seen them oftener but we didn’t.
Mr. GRIFFIN. About how often would you say?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Once a year.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was your father trained as a carpenter?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Yes; in the army.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How old was he when he went in the army?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. He was a young man, very young.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you know what rank he attained?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. According to the thing on his hat for the uniform it
was a No. 2, and he always used to get in trouble with the captain,
but he always would get right with the captain’s wife, he would always
make something for her, a cradle or a chair or something to even up the
score.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he tell you any of his adventures, where he was?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. He was in China, but he didn’t like it. He was in Korea
and he didn’t like it. He was in Siberia and he hated it most of all.
He broke away from the army.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did he happen to leave?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. He just left; walked away, walked away; went over to
England; from England he went to Canada; from Canada he came to the
United States.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, when he married your mother was he in the service?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. He was in the service; in fact I and my sister were
born when he left Europe.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You mean you were born after he left Europe?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You had been born when he left Europe?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. My sister and I.
Mr. GRIFFIN. That is the oldest?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. That is the oldest sister.
Mr. GRIFFIN. She is Ann Volpert?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you know where you and your mother stayed when your
father left?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Probably in Warsaw.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you know any reason why you did not accompany him?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Well, the only reason I can give you is he had to get
away first. He didn’t want the army to find him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. He was really escaping from the army?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Right. He didn’t want any more of it. He had it. And I
think there was a Japanese war going to break out there any day, and he
didn’t want no part of that so he just broke away.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you know if, did he ever mention whether religious
problems were a reason, any factor in his leaving or do you have the
impression it was strictly his dislike for the military service that
caused him to leave?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Well, you know Jews in the Russian Army is a tough
proposition, a very minority race and he probably didn’t like that,
either.
Mr. GRIFFIN. He never mentioned that to you?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. No, he wouldn’t anyway. I don’t think he is the type
of a man who would mention things like that. He always felt that he
belonged. We, the Jewish problem was never really brought up. We felt
like if you did you were a coward. The Jewish problem was always kept
to ourselves. Even when I went to high school there wasn’t too many
Jewish people there but we tried to belong. We tried to face it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And your father; I take it from what you say, was very
much this kind of a man that he didn’t outwardly voice any feelings of
sensitivity or separation because of the fact that he was Jewish in
a----
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. I doubt it. I doubt if he would have said anything.
No, not with him. But if you asked me that about somebody else in our
family----
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about your mother?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. No, no; I don’t think she--she just wanted to look out
for my welfare. My mother was very much interested in the welfare, how
we got along, how we got along at school and how our progress was going
with us in Chicago.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, I take it from what you say also that if your father
had any family back in Europe once he came to this country he didn’t
maintain contact with them?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. I don’t think he ever got one letter. I don’t remember
ever hearing a word of his family in Europe; not one word. We would
have known about it. If he heard anything about the family indirectly
it was through somebody else. Somebody else from his home town might
have gotten a letter and mentioned the fact that so and so----
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he go into the service with any of his brothers?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Who?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Your father.
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. I told you there was only one member taken from a
family.
Mr. GRIFFIN. The reason I ask you is I believe that in one of the
newspaper articles about Jack’s life that was serialized the story was
told by the newspaper reporter that your father had joined the service
with his two brothers and that your father and his two brothers married
your mother and her two sisters.
Do you ever recall a story like that?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Never. I don’t even remember seeing the article. I
don’t think it is true.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I am going to ask questions about your mother’s family
then. Did your mother talk about her family background?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Except her father was a very important man in the
community. He was like a doctor.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You say like a doctor?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. I don’t know. That is the expression they used at home.
I don’t know. You know, you are going back 4 or 5 thousand miles, and
that is the expression that was used.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes; but I take it the words “like a doctor” were used
which sort of indicated to you that maybe he wasn’t quite a doctor or
something similar to it.
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Like a pharmacist?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Could have been. I know he went out and took care of
people and my mother was called in to take care of the family when
somebody was sick.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Your mother was?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Do you follow me?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. My mother went along as a servant to take care of the
needs of the family that was sick. Her father took care of the family
in a medical way.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see.
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. That is the impression that I always had from the
stories we gathered at home.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did your mother spend her life around Warsaw, her early
life?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. I suppose, I don’t know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall her talking about her life in Europe where
she came from?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Yes; I think Warsaw was her main life.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall how big her family was?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did she have any brothers or sisters who came to this
country?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. One brother, Harry Rutland. He was, he worked for the
Union Pacific for many, many years as a boilermaker.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was Rutland his name?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. I think it used to be Rutkowsky and he changed it to
Rutland, naturally.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where did he live?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Denver.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is he still living?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you have some knowledge he is dead?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Oh, no; we know he is dead.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he have any family?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Four children, two boys and two girls.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see. Had your family maintained any contact with the
Rutland family?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. About as much as we maintained with Europe. We would
see them occasionally when they would come through or during the war,
the boys would pass through Chicago they would stop off and say hello,
and if I were working west with the Plymouth Rubber Co. and I went to
Denver I stayed there for a week. And then Rita left a trunk at our
house one time in Chicago for a couple of years and it blocked up our
closet and we asked her to remove it. That is the only connection.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Rita is one of his daughters?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Out on the west coast.
Mr. GRIFFIN. So far as you know the only aunts or uncles that you have,
whoever came to this country, were your father’s brother Hyman?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. No; my father’s brother Abraham.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Abraham, who has a son Hyman.
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. A doctor.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And your mother’s brother Harry?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. That is it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever hear your mother talk about having any
sisters?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Here in this country or in Europe?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Either place.
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. I don’t remember. There might have been one--I don’t
think she is a sister. She was very close to my mother. I don’t
remember her name.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where was she?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. I don’t know. It has been so many years ago.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did your mother--do you remember any contact being
maintained by your mother with her family in Europe?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. None. Not even one letter.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did your mother--did your mother ever express any
feelings about that?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. I imagine she got lonely. She used to sort of daydream
and tell us a few stories about Warsaw, and her family but she never
mentioned any names. I don’t remember her ever mentioning one name.
Mr. GRIFFIN. As you were growing up, as a child, did your mother speak
English?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did she speak?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Jewish.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yiddish?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Yiddish.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about your father?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Yiddish mostly.
Mr. GRIFFIN. So it--the conversation in the home was Yiddish among the
children?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Always, always with them.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What sort of religious practices were maintained in the
home?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Not orthodox, not strict, nothing strict, except for
the holidays. We would have for Easter, we would follow the Easter
services. For Yom Kippur my father would go to synagogue and try to
take me along when I was a little boy; and I went to Hebrew school for
a while, and that is all I can remember. I don’t know whether any of
the other boys went to Hebrew school or not.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But at least you as the oldest child----
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. I was an oldest child and they tried to set me as an
example for the others, but I couldn’t see it. I couldn’t understand
it. It is like speaking, what is that language that the Catholics use
in their church?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Roman.
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Roman.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Latin.
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. It is like the Catholics speak Latin in their churches
and it is like Hebrew speaking to us kids in America, if you don’t know
Hebrew you don’t understand it.
We tried to get some meaning out of it just enough so that we could
stay in school and then there was no use. It just didn’t absorb. There
was no practice. That is the word, practice.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did your family, did your mother, observe any of the
dietary laws?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Yes, yes; we had two sets of dishes, and very clean. My
mother was very clean with the children and with her own life and her
own family and her own home. She was very strict about those things.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Can you explain how it is that your mother would observe
the dietary laws and so forth and yet the more religious, the formal
religious aspect of the life was not incorporated in your home?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Very simple. You try to bring up eight kids in Chicago
and keep them in shoes and keep them in school, out of jail, out
of trouble, that was enough, that is the big problem. That is more
important.
Mr. GRIFFIN. There were troubles in your home, weren’t there?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Always.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What kind of troubles?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Family troubles.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you be specific?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Between my father and mother.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What seemed to be the trouble?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Arguments constantly, quarrels, unfortunately.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What would they fight over?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Who knows?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did your father drink?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Tell us about his drinking?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Always. He learned that in the army.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where would he drink, at home or go to a corner saloon or
what?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. I would say both.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he drink to excess?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was he abusive in any way?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you tell us about that?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. My mother objected to it and they would start to fight
and started an argument and sometimes they hit each other.
Mr. GRIFFIN. They did separate at one time did they not?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What was the cause of the separation?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Just ill-feeling.
Mr. GRIFFIN. While you were a child, did your mother have any peculiar
ideas, any delusions of any sort, did she seem to have any mental
problems?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Yes; she always felt there was a bone stuck in her
throat and about once a month I had to take her downtown. I being
the oldest, to a clinic for 50 cents, we had clinics, you know those
days, and she insisted there was a bone stuck in her throat from fish,
and everytime we would go there the doctor would tell her, “Mrs.
Rubenstein, there is nothing in your throat, you are imagining things.
Why don’t you forget it.”
Thirty days later, about 30 days, I don’t know, I would go back there
with her again. She insisted and I went, she made me go. This kept on
for a couple of years, and she finally got tired of going and then we
quit going.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, was this after you left high school?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. No; before.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did there ever come a time when your mother was
inattentive to the children, sloppy and so forth?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Yes. There came a time when she felt very despondent,
very disgusted, because she felt she had to keep up the job by herself
taking care of the children, and she was unhappy, and so I think the
family service suggested that she go to Elgin Sanitarium for a while.
Mr. GRIFFIN. That was in the thirties, though, was it not?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. I don’t remember what year, but I know I went out to
see her one time with my sister Marion, I drove her out there. It could
have been the thirties and it could have been the twenties.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But it was after you got out of high school.
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. I don’t remember.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How many children were born into the family?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Nine.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How many of them are now living?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Eight.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And one of them died as a young child?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where did the one who died come in the picture, in the age
span of the children?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. I don’t know. It was a girl. She was about 5 years old,
I think.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did she happen to die?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. She got burned. She tipped over a kettle of hot soup on
herself. It was a very tragic incident in our family.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you living at home at the time?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. I was a kid. I was only about 6 or 7 years old, I think.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was--it is clear to you that you were a child and you were
not an adult when this happened?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Oh, definitely.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was this before your parents separated?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Many years before.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did your mother take that?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Don’t ask. I thought she was going to go crazy. She
loved her children.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I take it you have considerable affection, affectionate
feelings toward your mother?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Always.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about the other children, did they feel that way or
was there some fighting?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Yes; yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right.
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. The reason I think for that is, she had a tough life.
It wasn’t easy for her putting up with my father all these years,
moving from place to place, trying to raise her children decently and
honestly. It was tough for her, and alone.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did your father feel towards the children?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. I can’t find the word for it but it wasn’t
like--wasn’t--he loved the children but I believe since he didn’t have
to have an education he felt that grammar school was good enough for
all of us, and that is what we should have done. But my mother felt
differently. She realized that you have got to have an education to
progress, and maybe that is why we all felt more for our mother than we
did for our father as a parent.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Your father ultimately came back and lived with you?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. After my mother died.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Not before?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. I don’t remember.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Of all of the children in the family, who do you think is
the one who has paid the most attention to this early family life and
would have the most information to contribute on it?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. I imagine Eva. Eva is a pretty smart woman. She could,
she was at home most of the time and I think she could, tell more about
the family than any of us. She has a very good memory, too, by the way,
which is important.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How close were you to Jack as he was growing up?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. I wasn’t home much. I told you. You have got the
history of my life here. I wasn’t home much. I am about 10 years older
than Jack so when he was 15, I was already 25. I was working and
traveling on the road, and whatever he was doing as long as he didn’t
get into any serious trouble I felt it is OK.
Except one incident and I found this out not so long ago. On the West
Side on Roosevelt Road there used to be a place called the Lawndale,
it is a restaurant. During the Roosevelt administration some character
made a wisecrack about Roosevelt. Jack picked up a chair and was going
to hit him right in the head with that and got stopped by two guys.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you see this?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. No; but I was told this by fellows who have no direct
connection with them.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who were those fellows?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. I can give you the name of the owner of the tavern, I
can mail it to you, and the fellow who told it to him was afraid to get
involved because he has got a record and I said, “What are you afraid
of?”
He said, “I don’t want to get involved.”
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember the name of the tavern owner?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. I can find it for you. I can give it to you, I can mail
it to you as soon as I get back to Chicago.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Why don’t you make a note of it and mail it to us.
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Sure, this came as a complete surprise to me because we
tried to get, we tried to get, some information from the boys how he
reacted away from home, and when a fellow told me this, I almost fell
through the floor. I know this, Jack went out to the northwest side
many times and broke up Bund meetings. That is one thing he wouldn’t go
for.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You know this from your own?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. From my own fact, and not that he will tell anybody. It
came also back to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. This other people have told you?
Mr. RUBENSTEIN. Other people told me. They said, “Your brother is
terrific. He just goes in there and breaks up the joint.” He just
couldn’t tolerate those guys. Nobody would dare mention the word “Jew”
in a derogatory form to him because he would be knocked flat in 2
minutes. That is the kind of a guy he was, hasty, quick, and he was
agile, he is built good, he never drank or smoked, and he took care of
himself. And I admire him for it and I love him for it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he ever put this strength and physical ability to use
in any sort of a job? For example, did he ever act as a bouncer any
place?