Mr. O'BRIEN. A trip of this nature, as many trips within the United
States, would involve the inclusion of Members of Congress, appropriate
members of the delegation, and what-have-you. So that would be pretty
much my involvement in any arrangements for a trip of this nature.
Mr. ADAMS. To put it another way, you did not yourself have the
responsibility for the specific planning?
Mr. O'BRIEN. Not at all.
Mr. ADAMS. And were you involved in making--in the discussions which
led to the final decision about this Texas trip?
Mr. O'BRIEN. There were some discussions that involved me as to the
specific stops on the trip, because there immediately you would have
the matter of the congressional districts that would be involved in the
stops, and matters of that nature.
Mr. ADAMS. Do you happen to know how it came to pass that Mrs. Kennedy
went along on that trip?
Mr. O'BRIEN. No; I do not. I think Mr. O'Donnell would be the proper
person to direct that to.
Mr. ADAMS. Did you have anything to do with the security or protection
arrangements for the President?
Mr. O'BRIEN. No.
Mr. ADAMS. Neither on that trip nor at any time?
Mr. O'BRIEN. No.
Mr. ADAMS. This didn't come within your duties at all?
Mr. O'BRIEN. That is correct.
Mr. ADAMS. Now, is it fair to say that the substantial purpose of this
trip was political?
Mr. O'BRIEN. I would not say--in my belief it was not the substantial
purpose. An invitation that had been extended by the Congressman
Albert Thomas' dinner committee, and I assume arrangements that were
appropriate for that time for a dinner in Austin contributed to the
decision on that particular time for this trip. This would be typical
of the situation, as I recall it, where you knew there would be an
occasion when the President would visit Texas.
He was interested in visiting Texas, as he was other sections of the
country. And this sort of fell into line. It presented to some degree
an opportunity to make the trip at that time.
He was particularly fond of Congressman Thomas. And he had had a
close-working relationship with him in the Congress.
I, of course, became very well acquainted with Congressman Thomas,
because of my role representing the White House with the Congress. And
I am sure that was a contributing factor. He was most interested in
attending this dinner to honor him.
Mr. ADAMS. I suppose it would be fair to say that almost any activity
of the President is in some measure political.
Mr. O'BRIEN. I would say that is perhaps true.
But he had been interested, also, in having an opportunity to visit the
Space Center particularly. And he had watched the development of the
space activity in Texas with great interest.
Mr. ADAMS. Now, going back to the time that you left Washington on that
trip, did you leave with the President?
Mr. O'BRIEN. I did.
Mr. ADAMS. From the White House?
Mr. O'BRIEN. I did.
Mr. ADAMS. By helicopter?
Mr. O'BRIEN. Yes.
Mr. ADAMS. And what was the time--do you recall?
Mr. O'BRIEN. It was approximately forenoon, about 10:45, from the White
House lawn, in the President's helicopter.
Mr. ADAMS. And where did you go in the helicopter?
Mr. O'BRIEN. We went to Andrews Field.
Mr. ADAMS. And did you go onboard _Air Force 1_?
Mr. O'BRIEN. Yes; I did.
Mr. ADAMS. And you went from there to Austin?
Mr. O'BRIEN. We went from there to San Antonio.
Mr. ADAMS. I am sorry. I misspoke myself. San Antonio?
Mr. O'BRIEN. Yes.
Mr. ADAMS. Arriving in San Antonio about when?
Mr. O'BRIEN. I think you would have to refer to the record on that.
Mr. ADAMS. Some time early afternoon? Some time in the afternoon of
that day?
Mr. O'BRIEN. Yes; I remember it was, weatherwise, an uneventful trip.
The weather was fine. There is no reason to suggest we didn't arrive at
pretty much the established time.
Mr. ADAMS. Then, just briefly, what happened in San Antonio?
Mr. O'BRIEN. Well, there was a motorcade in San Antonio to the
Aerospace Center for a ceremony. And, as I recall, the ceremony was
relatively brief. The President spoke briefly. And then he inspected
the installation.
The overall elapsed time I don't recall--perhaps an hour or an hour and
a half.
And then we proceeded back to the airport for the trip to Fort Worth.
Mr. ADAMS. What happened in Fort Worth?
Mr. O'BRIEN. In Fort Worth, as I recall, at the airport there was--from
the airport into the hotel in Fort Worth, it was rather a lengthy trip.
It also involved crowds at various stops.
The hour--I am sorry I cannot recall the hour of arrival--but it was,
as we say, an offbeat hour. It was rather surprising to have the
interest shown crowdwise as we went in. It delayed the motorcade into
the hotel and outside of the hotel there was a large crowd of people.
Mr. ADAMS. What was the reaction of that crowd? Was that a friendly
group?
Mr. O'BRIEN. I would describe it as friendly; yes.
Mr. ADAMS. Then what happened next, after you arrived at the hotel?
Mr. O'BRIEN. The President and his party checked into the hotel for the
night. I do not recall any other official activity.
Mr. ADAMS. And what happened next?
Mr. O'BRIEN. Well, the following morning the President arose early to
attend a breakfast. As I recall, it was a civic breakfast, sponsored by
the local civic group or groups.
Mr. ADAMS. Did Mrs. Kennedy attend that, also, as you recall?
Mr. O'BRIEN. She arrived at the breakfast, as I recall, following the
President. The President spoke at the breakfast, and received gifts,
and Mrs. Kennedy received a gift. I recall one of the gifts to the
President was a Stetson. I recall that he did not try it on, but he
appreciated receiving it.
Following the breakfast, he then spoke to a large crowd in front of
the hotel, in the parking area opposite the hotel. There had been
indications of bad weather. There was some rain, and then the rain
became intermittent.
Upon completing his speech in the parking area, he returned upstairs to
await the normal departure time.
When that time arrived, I went downstairs ahead of the President and
Mrs. Kennedy, and the Secret Service were determining whether or not
they would have the top up or down on the car, because there was still
an occasional drop of rain. However, a few minutes elapsed, and it
appeared the weather would stay good for the drive to the airport. So
he left, to the best of my recollection--I feel sure of this--in an
open car to the airport from the hotel.
Mr. ADAMS. While we are on that subject, just to digress for a moment,
what was his attitude toward riding in open cars?
Mr. O'BRIEN. It was certainly his preference. He had always expressed
a view that in our democracy a President should, whenever possible, be
exposed to the people. And I think, also, he felt the people should be
exposed to him. He always wanted to have the closest possible contact
with people. And in that context his preference certainly at all times
was an open car.
Mr. ADAMS. And these preferences were expressed to you personally?
Mr. O'BRIEN. Not in the context of this particular situation.
Mr. ADAMS. No; I mean through the years.
Mr. O'BRIEN. But certainly we were totally aware of his desires in that
area. And this had, of course, been his position not only in the United
States but in trips outside the country.
Mr. ADAMS. Did he have--did he ever happen to express any particular
view to you about motorcades, in terms of security?
Mr. O'BRIEN. No; I cannot recall any discussion I had with him in that
regard.
Mr. ADAMS. Generally speaking, what was his position as expressed to
you about security?
Mr. O'BRIEN. I cannot recall any specific conversation in that area.
There may have been. But certainly it was not of sufficient substance
to be of any importance.
Mr. ADAMS. More specifically, did you ever discuss with him the
possibility of assassination?
Mr. O'BRIEN. No; I did not.
Mr. ADAMS. Did you ever discuss it with Mrs. Kennedy?
Mr. O'BRIEN. No; I did not.
Mr. ADAMS. Well, I took you off the track there. We will come back to
Fort Worth, now, if we may.
When we left we were discussing his concluding his talk and going out
to the airport in Fort Worth.
Mr. O'BRIEN. Yes; there were, as I recall it, some bands en route.
There was a great deal of excitement, enthusiasm. The weather had
cleared. And it was a thoroughly pleasant trip out to the airport. The
President obviously enjoyed it.
When we arrived at _Air Force 1_, he commented that that certainly had
been a very interesting and pleasant morning.
Mr. ADAMS. And you went with him on _Air Force 1_?
Mr. O'BRIEN. That is correct.
Mr. ADAMS. To Dallas--arriving late in the morning?
Mr. O'BRIEN. I would estimate our arrival time at Dallas perhaps around
11:45. I know that we anticipated the motorcade through the streets of
Dallas at the noon hour.
Mr. ADAMS. Did you yourself have anything to do with the planning of
that motorcade?
Mr. O'BRIEN. No; I did not.