The testimony of Gregory Lee Olds was taken at 4:05 p.m., on April 8,
1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building,
Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Samuel A. Stern,
assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. STERN. Will you stand and raise your right hand, please.
Do you solemnly swear that the evidence you are about to give shall be
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. OLDS. I do.
Mr. STERN. Sit down, please, Mr. Olds. For the record will you state
your name and address.
Mr. OLDS. Gregory Lee Olds, 1316 Timberlake, Richardson, Tex.
Mr. STERN. What is your profession?
Mr. OLDS. I am an editor of a weekly newspaper.
Mr. STERN. Where?
Mr. OLDS. In Richardson.
Mr. STERN. What is your connection with the Dallas Civil Liberties
Union?
Mr. OLDS. I am its President.
Mr. STERN. Were you its president in November of 1963?
Mr. OLDS. Yes.
Mr. STERN. Can you tell us what transpired on November 22, in
connection with your efforts and the efforts of your organization to
assure that Lee Harvey Oswald was not being denied his right to counsel?
Mr. OLDS. Yes. I got a phone call about 10:30 that night from one of
our board members saying they had been called by the President of the
Austin affiliate who was concerned about the reports that were being
circulated on the air. I think Oswald was directly quoted as saying he
had not been given the opportunity to have counsel, and the suggestion
was made that it might be well to check into this matter, and I believe
I called this--I first called the police department to inquire about
this, and finally talked to Captain Fritz, Capt. Will Fritz, and
was--raised the question, and he said, "No--" that Oswald had been
given the opportunity and declined. And I called--then I called the
board member back who had called me----
Mr. STERN. Excuse me. Did Captain Fritz say that Oswald did not want
counsel at that time, or that he was trying to obtain his own counsel?
Mr. OLDS. What I was told, that he had been given the opportunity and
had not made any requests. So, I called our board member back and
conferred with him and he suggested that we go down and see about it at
the police department, in person, to get further assurances. And he and
I and two others of our organization met down there at the Plaza Hotel
lobby about 11:15, directly across the street from the police station,
and we discussed the matter there, and I called Mayor Earle Cabell at
his office, but was told that he was busy at the moment so we went then
over to the police station, and we got in there. Let's see, it was up
on the--I guess the third or fourth floor, wherever Oswald was being
questioned, and Chuck Webster, a lawyer--professor of law, who was
known to the other three men with me said he had been there a good part
of the time since the assassination, and that--we told him what we were
there for, and he said he thought he knew who we could see to get our
assurances. Did you have something?
Mr. STERN. No.
Mr. OLDS. We went to--first, we talked--conferred with Captain King, I
believe is the right name, who is, I believe, assistant to the chief of
police. I'm not sure on that. We all went in with Mr. Webster, and this
was shortly after 11:35, or 11:40, and Captain King was, at this time,
talking to somebody and said that Oswald had just been charged with the
assassination of President Kennedy. He had here--earlier been charged
with the assassination--I mean the murder of the policeman, Tippit, and
we told Captain King what we were there for, and he said, he assured us
that Oswald had not made any requests for counsel. And we went outside
of the office and went downstairs, at least--I didn't, but two of the
others, I believe, went downstairs to the basement where Justice of the
Peace David Johnston was. He was the one that had held the--I believe
an arraignment, I believe is the right term, at 7:30 when the first
charge of murder was filed against Oswald, and he also assured us that
there had been an opportunity of--Oswald's rights had been explained,
and he had declined counsel. Said nothing beyond that. I think that was
the extent of our inquiry.
Mr. STERN. What happened next?
Mr. OLDS. Also we were--I believe Chief Curry was quoted to us as
having said some--also that Oswald had been advised of his rights to
counsel. I am not sure who told me that. I believe that it was Mr.
Webster. That was about all. We felt fairly well satisfied that Oswald
probably had not been deprived of his rights, so, we then broke up.
I think the other men went home, and I went downstairs. I heard that
there was going to be a press conference, so I thought I could stand in
on that and--do you want me to go ahead and detail that?