Mr. BALL. You took him on up there, then, did you?
Mr. BOYD. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And you put him in jail for the night, did you?
Mr. BOYD. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And then you went home and went to bed?
Mr. BOYD. Later on I did.
Mr. BALL. What time did you go to work the next day--that would be
November 23.
Mr. BOYD. I think I got in around 9 o'clock.
Mr. BALL. Then what did you do?
Mr. BOYD. I arrived at 9:30 and I stayed around the office until 10:25
and Mr. Sims, Hall, and myself went up and got Lee Oswald out of jail
again and brought him down to my office.
Mr. BALL. Who told you to do that?
Mr. BOYD. Captain Fritz.
Mr. BALL. What did you do when you brought him down to your office?
Mr. BOYD. Well, Mr. Fritz and the FBI and Mr. Robert Nash, the U.S.
marshal, and Mr. Kelley of Secret Service were in Captain Fritz' office
at that time.
Mr. BALL. Who else was in the office?
Mr. BOYD. Let me see--I believe Mr. Sims and Hall, and Captain Fritz
were there.
Mr. BALL. Now, Sims said he didn't stay there.
Mr. BOYD. Well, he came back out after we got him down there--that's
right.
Mr. BALL. You stayed there, didn't you?
Mr. BOYD. Yes.
Mr. BALL. And you heard what was said?
Mr. BOYD. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Tell us what you heard.
Mr. BOYD. Well, I know Mr. Nash asked him a question or two.
Mr. BALL. What were they?
Mr. BOYD. I don't recall what questions he asked.
Mr. BALL. Who else asked questions?
Mr. BOYD. Captain Fritz talked to him and--let me see--I don't remember
if Mr. Bookhout--it seemed like Mr. Bookhout asked a question or two--I
believe all of them asked him something.
Mr. BALL. Do you know what they asked?
Mr. BOYD. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Do you remember what Oswald said?
Mr. BOYD. Well, let me see--no, sir; I can't recall what he said; like
I say, I didn't keep notes there because I was sitting right near
Oswald.
Mr. BALL. Was Oswald handcuffed?
Mr. BOYD. Yes; he was handcuffed.
Mr. BALL. Were the handcuffs in the front or in the back?
Mr. BOYD. They were in the front of him.
Mr. BALL. How long did this questioning last?
Mr. BOYD. It didn't last too awful long--about an hour or so, I
believe, and we took him back to the jail at 11:30.
Mr. BALL. Then what did you do?
Mr. BOYD. Then Mr. Sims and Hall and Mr. Dhority, who is another
detective in our bureau--went out to 1026 North Beckley to recheck
Oswald's room out there.
Mr. BALL. Did you go out there then?
Mr. BOYD. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did you have a search warrant?
Mr. BOYD. Let me see--I'm not sure if I had a search warrant--I know
the landlady was there and let us in there. I didn't have the search
warrant myself, I'll say that. One of the other officers might have had
a search warrant.
Mr. BALL. But you didn't have one?
Mr. BOYD. I didn't have one.
Mr. BALL. You don't know whether you had one or not?
Mr. BOYD. I know there was a search warrant gotten but I didn't get it.
Mr. BALL. Well, there was a search warrant issued to search 1026 North
Beckley the day before?
Mr. BOYD. Yes.
Mr. BALL. And it was searched the day before--you knew that, didn't you?
Mr. BOYD. Yes.
Mr. BALL. When you searched it this day, what did you find?
Mr. BOYD. Nothing.
Mr. BALL. Did you take anything with you?
Mr. BOYD. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. You took nothing out?
Mr. BOYD. I don't believe so. I think it was pretty clean.
Mr. BALL. What kind of furnishings did you see in there?
Mr. BOYD. Well, I saw a little bed, just a little small dresser--it
barely would go in there and you barely did have room enough to
walk between the dresser and the wall. The fact is the whole works
were--wasn't any wider than that--just about that wide [indicating].
Mr. BALL. The whole room?
Mr. BOYD. The whole room.
Mr. BALL. It wasn't any wider than how many feet?
Mr. BOYD. I would say it wasn't over about 12 feet long and about 5
feet wide or something like that.
Mr. BALL. Did it have curtains on the windows?
Mr. BOYD. Well, it had--let's see, I'm not sure if it was curtains or
blinds. It had one little bed in there and it barely did have room
enough to get in there and go to bed.
Mr. BALL. You don't recall whether it had curtains or blinds?
Mr. BOYD. No, sir; I do not.
Mr. BALL. Did you see Oswald again that day?
Mr. BOYD. I don't believe I did--let me see.
Mr. BALL. Well, it says in your report you brought him in at 6:30.
Mr. BOYD. I didn't do that.
Mr. BALL. You didn't do it? You were off duty?
Mr. BOYD. I wasn't off duty, but I just wasn't at the office at that
time.
Mr. BALL. You don't think you saw him again?
Mr. BOYD. I don't believe so.
Mr. BALL. What about November 24?
Mr. BOYD. I worked late on the night of the 23d so I wouldn't have to
come back early the next morning.
Mr. BALL. Then, you were with him on the 24th?
Mr. BOYD. I wasn't with him on the 24th--I was watching on the TV at
home--I wasn't at home--I was out at my mother-in-law's at Irving,
Tex., and I called Lieutenant Baker right after I learned about Oswald.
Mr. BALL. I want to ask you a question about Oswald's appearance when
you first saw him. Did he have any marks on his face?
Mr. BOYD. He had one markup--I believe it was on his left eye--the
thing that I noticed or was noticeable. And I asked him where he got
that and he said, "Well, I struck an officer and he struck me back." He
said, "Which he should have done."
Mr. BALL. Did he say "He should have done that?" Did Oswald say that?
Mr. BOYD. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. I want the exact words, not your version--give me the exact
words.
Mr. BOYD. I'll tell you--I asked him how he got this place on his eye,
and he says, "Well, I struck an officer and the officer struck me back,
which he should have done."
Mr. BALL. Those were the exact words?
Mr. BOYD. Those were the exact words.
Mr. BALL. Was there anything else said about that?
Mr. BOYD. No, sir; he didn't seem too much upset about it.
Mr. BALL. Did he ever complain to you that he had been abused by the
officers at the time of the arrest?
Mr. BOYD. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did he ever use the term that "police brutality"--did he ever
use that term to you?
Mr. BOYD. I don't remember him ever using the term "police brutality".
Mr. BALL. Did he ever ask you to get him a lawyer?
Mr. BOYD. No, sir; he didn't ask me to get him one.
Mr. BALL. Were you present at any time when a lawyer visited Oswald?
Mr. BOYD. No, sir; I wasn't present--we asked him, did he want a lawyer
here--Captain Fritz the next morning had asked him, and he said he
didn't want a lawyer, he wanted Mr. Abt.
Mr. BALL. Do you have some questions?
Mr. STERN. What was your impression of Oswald--the way he handled
himself, what kind of a man did he seem to you?
Mr. BOYD. I'll tell you, I've never saw another man just exactly like
him.
Mr. STERN. In what way?
Mr. BOYD. Well, you know, he acted like he was intelligent; just as
soon as you would ask him a question, he would just give you the answer
right back--he didn't hesitate about his answers. I mean, as soon as
you would pop him a question, he would shoot you an answer right back
and, like I said, I never saw a man that could answer questions like he
did.
Mr. STERN. Did he seem to be under stress or calm in those terms?
Mr. BOYD. Well, at times he was just as calm as could be, then once
in a while he would--I don't know just how to tell you, but every now
and then he would be talking and he would be just as calm and the next
minute he would just liable to be--I mean his attitude, you know, would
change, you know, rather frequently, but most of the time when he would
be talking to you he was rather calm.
Mr. STERN. When it changed, was it for any noticeable reason or did it
change apparently?
Mr. BOYD. Well, most of the time, you know, it was just when somebody
would say something--some little something he didn't like, and he
would--he didn't become mad, but the worst thing he did was when he
jumped up and slapped the desk.
Mr. STERN. During the Hosty interrogation?
Mr. BOYD. Yes, sir.
Mr. STERN. He seemed to you to understand generally his rights?
Mr. BOYD. Yes, sir.
Mr. STERN. And do you know that he wasn't required to answer?
Mr. BOYD. Yes, sir.
Mr. STERN. Of course, this was a long day for everybody--did he seem by
the end of the day still to be in command of himself, or did he appear
tired or particularly worn out?
Mr. BOYD. Well, he didn't appear to be as tired as I felt--he didn't
appear to be, because I imagine he could have been tired--he didn't
show it.
Mr. STERN. This is quite unnatural--really rather exceptional; this is,
of course, why you say somewhat unusual, a man accused of killing two
people, one of them the President of the United States, and at the end
of the day, he is pretty well in command?
Can you tell us in any other respect about the kind of person he seemed
to you--anything else that you observed about him, as you now recall?
Mr. BOYD. I don't know--he just struck me as being the man, you know,
who liked to move around a lot--I don't know that he did, but he just
struck me as being a man that acted like he was not satisfied and--in
one place.
Mr. BALL. When you participated in the search of Oswald and found five
pistol cartridges in his pants pocket, was there any discussion of
these bullets with him; did he say anything, or did you say anything to
him about it?
Mr. BOYD. I just asked him, "What were they doing in there," and he
said, "I just had them in my pocket."
Mr. STERN. The memorandum mentions the cartridges--bus transfer, except
that he had a ring on his finger which he took off and he gave it to
Mr. Sims, Do you remember any other items that he had that you got from
him during this search?
Mr. BOYD. No, sir; I know that Mr. Sims did get the bus transfer and
took his ring--he took his ring off and give it to Mr. Sims, and I got
those five shells, and that's all that I recall being taken from him.
Mr. STERN. Do you remember an identification bracelet in the course of
that investigation?
Mr. BOYD. Let me see--I'm trying to think if he had an identification
bracelet.
When we were up in Captain Fritz' office the first time--I recall--I
don't recall if I saw that bracelet then or not--it seemed like I did.
I know I saw a little card with his picture on it.
Mr. STERN. But this was not something you obtained in your search?
Mr. BOYD. No; I didn't.
Mr. STERN. That had been obtained earlier, apparently.
That's all. Do you have anything else?
Mr. ELY. Yes. Mr. Boyd, when you first saw Oswald when you went to the
interrogation room and got him--do you remember that?
Mr. BOYD. Yes.
Mr. ELY. Who was with him in the interrogation room prior to your
arrival?
Mr. BOYD. I am not positive about who was with him--there's some
uniformed men in there and I believe there was Officer K. E. Lyons,
but I would be afraid to say for sure, because I'm not positive, but I
believe that's who it was.
Mr. ELY. Do you know whether whoever it was there with them, were they
talking to him or questioning him, or don't you know?
Mr. BOYD. Well, I don't know. I just took it that they were the ones
that brought him into--into the office up there. They were more or less
just waiting for somebody.
I just assumed they were part of the officers that were out in the
Texas Theatre where they arrested him and transferred down to our
office from Oak Cliff.
Mr. ELY. Now, referring to the press conference Friday night, I believe
you mentioned that part of the time Oswald seemed angry to you, do you
know what it was that upset him?
Mr. BOYD. When someone called to him and asked him why he shot the
President, that seemed like that's what upset him.
Mr. ELY. Do you know if there is anyone who could tell us who picked
the people in the various lineups--you don't know exactly, but did you
know, is there anybody you could tell us?
Mr. BOYD. I just don't know who it would be.
Mr. ELY. On Friday night, about what time did you check Oswald into the
jail there?
Mr. BOYD. I think it was around 12:20 in the morning, I believe.
According to my watch, I believe that's what I went by--that's what the
time would be, of course, it could be a few minutes off. We turned him
over to the jailers at 12:23 a.m.
Mr. ELY. Do you know whether he was checked out of the jail again
after that time? Late at night--I realize you checked him out the next
morning.
Mr. BOYD. No sir; I don't know.
Mr. ELY. You I don't know?
Mr. BOYD. No.
Mr. ELY. I believe that's all I have.
Mr. BALL. Well, Mr. Boyd, this will be written up and it will be
submitted to you and you can read it over and correct it and sign it
if you wish. That's one procedure you can follow.
Or, this young lady will write it up and we'll send it on to the
Commission as it is if you waive your signature. You have your
option--you can do either one.
Mr. BOYD. I think she probably got it down all right--I'll trust her.
Mr. BALL. Then, you are waiving your signature?
Mr. BOYD. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Thank you very much, and I am glad to have met you.
Mr. BOYD. Glad to have met you, Mr. Ball.