The testimony of Capt. W. R. Westbrook was taken at 9 a.m., on April
6, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building,
Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Messrs. Joseph A. Ball, John
Hart Ely, and Samuel A. Stern, assistant counsel of the President's
Commission. Dr. Alfred Goldberg, historian, was present.
Mr. BALL. Would you please stand up and be sworn?
Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give before the
Commission will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, so help you God?
Mr. WESTBROOK. I do.
Mr. BALL. Will you state your name, please?
Mr. WESTBROOK. W. R. Westbrook.
Mr. BALL. And what is your address?
Mr. WESTBROOK. At the present time it is 7642 Daingerfield, Apartment
C, and another address is Route 2, Quinton. I live at both of them.
Mr. BALL. What is your business or occupation?
Mr. WESTBROOK. Captain of police.
Mr. BALL. The Commission has asked us to put something in the record
about everybody's past experience. Can you tell me about where you were
born--they don't get to take a look at you, so they would like to read
about you.
Mr. WESTBROOK. I was born in Benton, Ark., November 9, 1917. I was a
farm boy and came to Dallas in 1937, and went on the police department
June 13, 1941, and I served as a radio patrolman for approximately 4
years, promoted to sergeant, and was a sergeant for about 6 or 7 years,
and was promoted to captain in 1952, and have held that position since.
Mr. BALL. What are your duties in general, captain?
Mr. WESTBROOK. At the present time I am personnel officer. We conduct
all background investigations of applicants, both civilian and police,
and then we make--we investigate all personnel complaints--not all of
them, but the major ones.
Mr. BALL. Do you wear a uniform?
Mr. WESTBROOK. Well, it is optional. I don't wear one.
Mr. BALL. On November 22, 1963, were you assigned any special duty?
Mr. WESTBROOK. No, sir; other than just my own routine duties.
Mr. BALL. What were those duties that day?
Mr. WESTBROOK. 8:15 to 5:15.
Mr. BALL. And were you in uniform on that day?
Mr. WESTBROOK. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Where were you when you heard the President had been shot?
Mr. WESTBROOK. I was in my office and Mrs. Kinney, one of the
dispatchers, came into the office and told us, and of course--it's the
same as everybody says--we didn't believe it until a second look at her
and I realized it was so, and so, there's a little confusion right here
because everybody became rather excited right quick, but somebody, and
I don't know who it was, came into my office and said they needed some
more men at this Texas Depository Building.
You know, I didn't review my report before I came over here--I didn't
have a chance. I just came off of vacation and they hit me with this
this morning as soon as I got to the office. I can't recall whether or
not it was the dispatcher's office, but I think it was--somebody in the
dispatcher's office had told us they needed some more men at the Texas
Depository Building, so I sent the men that were in my office, which
were then Sergeants Stringer and Carver, and possibly Joe Fields and
McGee, if they were in there--it seems like McGee was, and I think--I
sent them to the building, and then I walked on down the hall spreading
the word and telling the other people that they needed some men down
there, and practically everybody left immediately. I sat around a
while--really not knowing what to do because of the--almost all of
the commanding officers and supervisors were out of the city hall and
I finally couldn't stand it any longer, so I started to the Texas
Depository Building, and believe it or not, I walked. There wasn't a
car available, and so I walked from the city hall to the Depository
Building, and I would stop on the way down where there would be a group
of people listening to somebody's transistor radio and I would stop and
catch a few false reports, you might say, at that time, until I reached
the building.
Do you want me to continue on?
Mr. BALL. Go right ahead, sir.
Mr. WESTBROOK. After we reached the building, or after I reached the
building, I contacted my sergeant Sgt. R. D. Stringer, and he was
standing in front and so then I went into the building to help start
the search and I was on the first floor and I had walked down an aisle
and opened a door onto an outside loading dock, and when I came out on
this dock, one of the men hollered and said there had been an officer
killed in Oak Cliff.
Well, then, of course, I ran to my radio because I am the personnel
officer and that then became, of course, my greatest interest right at
that time, and so, Sergeant Stringer and I and some patrolman--I don't
recall his name--then drove to the immediate vicinity of where Officer
Tippit had been shot and killed.
Of course, the body was already gone, the squad car was still there,
and on one occasion as we were approaching this squad car, a call came
over the radio that a suspicious person had been sighted running into
the public library at Marsalis and Jefferson, so we immediately went to
that location and it was a false--it was just one of the actually--it
was one of the employees of the library who had heard the news
somewhere on the radio and he was running to tell the other group about
Kennedy.
So, we returned to the scene and here I met Bob Barrett, the FBI agent,
and Sergeant Stringer and Barrett and I were together, and then an
eyewitness to the shooting of the officer from across the street, a
lady, came to the car, and she was telling us how this happened.
Mr. BALL. Where was your car parked at that time?
Mr. WESTBROOK. It wasn't my car--we didn't have one. I don't know where
this officer went after he let us out at the scene.
Mr. BALL. An officer drove you down to the scene?
Mr. WESTBROOK. An officer drove us to the scene.
Mr. BALL. Where were you when this lady came up who was an eyewitness?
Mr. WESTBROOK. We were at the squad car--Tippit's squad car--it had
never been moved.
Mr. BALL. You were near 10th and Patton?
Mr. WESTBROOK. And she was telling us what had occurred.
Mr. BALL. Do you remember her name?
Mr. WESTBROOK. No; the other officers got it.
Mr. BALL. Was it a Mrs. Markham?
Mr. WESTBROOK. It could have been, sir; I don't recall, because I
directed someone there to be sure and get her name for the report, but
she lived directly across the street, and she told us--or was in the
process of telling us how it occurred--what she had seen, when someone
hollered a patrolman hollered--"It's just come over the radio that
they've got a suspicious person in the Texas Theatre."
Then, Sergeant Stringer, I, and Agent Barrett got in another squad car,
and I don't know what officer was driving this one, but then when we
arrived and were approaching the theatre, I directed the patrolman to
turn down into the alley instead of going around to the front because
I figured there would be a lot of cars at the front. There were two or
three at the back.
So, I and Barrett--Stringer went to another door, and I and Barrett--we
stopped at the first one--we got out and walked to this first entrance
that was nearest us, and as we walked into the door we met an employee
of the theatre.
Again, I do not know his name, but it was taken, and he pointed--I
don't think I said anything to him--I think he told me, he said, "The
man you are looking for--" Now, right here, Barrett and I became
separated for a short minute or two. I think he was on the other side
of the stage, and I'm not for sure, but this boy reported--he pointed
to a man that was sitting about the middle--the middle row of seats
pretty close to the back and he said, "That is the man you are looking
for."
And I started toward him and I had taken about two or three steps--down
the steps.
Mr. BALL. Down the steps from the stage?
Mr. WESTBROOK. From the stage--yes, sir. Now, I feel sure, and at the
time I think I knew--I'm not sure if I included that in the report, but
I think Barrett was going down the other steps. I think we separated
right there and he got on the other side.
Mr. BALL. Which side were you on?
Mr. WESTBROOK. I was facing the audience--I would be on the right side.
Mr. BALL. Facing the audience--that would be on the right side?
Mr. WESTBROOK. I was on the right side.
Mr. BALL. And if you were facing the screen you would have been on the
left?
Mr. WESTBROOK. I would have been on the left.
Mr. BALL. The man that was pointed out to you was sitting next to the
aisle, if you were facing the screen?
Mr. WESTBROOK. Well, he was sitting in the middle row of seats, and I
don't know just exactly which--it was the third or fourth row from the
back, it seemed like.
Mr. BALL. And near what aisle?
Mr. WESTBROOK. He was about the middle of the aisle.
Mr. BALL. He was about the middle of the aisle?
Mr. WESTBROOK. Yes; about the middle of the aisle. So, about the time
I reached the first step or maybe the second step, I noticed then
Officer McDonald--of course, the stage was still dim, but I could tell
it was McDonald. I know him. He used to work for me when I was radio
patrolman, and I seen him go down the aisle and this boy come up and
made a contact, and they started struggling.
Mr. BALL. You say "the boy come up," what did he do?
Mr. WESTBROOK. He got up from the seat and they started fighting.
Mr. BALL. Were the lights on in the theatre?
Mr. WESTBROOK. Very dim ones; the picture was still running, but the
lights were on very dim.
Mr. BALL. They started fighting--what sort of fighting did you see?
Mr. WESTBROOK. Well, I know that I seen Oswald swing at McDonald and
McDonald grab him.
Mr. BALL. Oswald swung with which arm, would you say?
Mr. WESTBROOK. I would say it would be his left fist, because from the
way he was sitting facing me--I would say it would be his left fist.
Mr. BALL. Then what did you see?
Mr. WESTBROOK. Well, the next thing, of course, then I started running
and there was probably six or seven officers that just converged on
him just like that. Barrett was, I think, directly behind me in the
aisle--he got there at the same time I did.
I yelled about two or three times, "Has somebody got his gun," and
finally some officer--I don't know which one it was--says, "Yes; I have
the gun."
Mr. BALL. Were you close enough to hear anything said by either
McDonald or anyone else?
Mr. WESTBROOK. I heard Oswald say something about police
brutality--Oswald yelled something about police brutality.
Mr. BALL. When McDonald first approached the man in the seats did you
hear McDonald say anything?
Mr. WESTBROOK. I probably couldn't have heard this, Mr. Ball, from
where I was.
Mr. BALL. Did you hear the man say anything?
Mr. WESTBROOK. The word "brutality" or "police brutality" and I think
that was just all he yelled--was said while I was in the aisle walking
down to the group. There was about six or seven ahold of him at that
time.
Mr. BALL. Were the handcuffs on him at the time you arrived?
Mr. WESTBROOK. They were putting the handcuffs on him--they had one
handcuff on one hand and they were trying to find the other one, and
they were having difficulty in locating it because there were so many
hands there.
Mr. BALL. How many officers were there?
Mr. WESTBROOK. In fact--that was one of the only humorous things about
the whole thing--somebody did get ahold of the wrong arm and they were
twisting it behind Oswald's back and somebody yelled--I remember that,
"My God, you got mine." I think it was just an arm that come up out of
the crowd that somebody grabbed.
Mr. BALL. Did you see any police officer strike Oswald?
Mr. WESTBROOK. No; I did not.
Mr. BALL. You didn't?
Mr. WESTBROOK. No, I didn't.
Mr. BALL. We had a witness here Thursday, a patron of the theatre at
the time, who said that at the time the officers were struggling with
Oswald he saw another officer who had a shotgun take the shotgun and
grab it by the muzzle and strike Oswald in the back with the butt of
the shotgun; did you see that?
Mr. WESTBROOK. No, sir; I didn't see that. It could have happened
without me seeing it because half of my view was blocked from the
struggle.
Mr. BALL. Did anybody ever tell you that story before?
Mr. WESTBROOK. That's the first time I've heard that.
Mr. BALL. That's the first time you have ever heard it?
Mr. WESTBROOK. That's the first time I have ever heard any shotgun was
in play.
Mr. BALL. Did any of the men who were approaching Oswald or who
approached Oswald have a gun in their hand?
Mr. WESTBROOK. I didn't see a gun, Mr. Ball; no, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you see any men with shotguns in the theatre?
Mr. WESTBROOK. In the theatre--I didn't.
Mr. BALL. Did you see any at any other time?
Mr. WESTBROOK. Yes, sir; I had one myself at the library.
Mr. BALL. But did you enter the theatre with a gun?
Mr. WESTBROOK. Oh, no.
Mr. BALL. Did you see any officer either in uniform or out of uniform
within the theatre itself that was armed with a shotgun?
Mr. WESTBROOK. No, sir--not that I recall, but of course at that time
I wasn't looking for one. You know, if I had been looking for one, I
probably would have seen one, because I feel sure there must have been
somebody come in with a shotgun.
Mr. BALL. Were you in uniform at that time?
Mr. WESTBROOK. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. What happened after that, Officer Westbrook?
Mr. WESTBROOK. Well, after Oswald was handcuffed, and I was then--some
way I got in the aisle in front of Oswald--where this was going on, and
I looked right into his face, closer than you and I, about like this----
Mr. BALL. That's close to a foot?
Mr. WESTBROOK. Yes; I'd say 10 inches.
Mr. BALL. Ten inches.
Mr. WESTBROOK. And I asked him his name and he didn't answer, and so
that was the only thing. Then I yelled--there was so much confusion and
it was rather loud, and I yelled at the top of my voice, I said, "Get
him out of here. Get him in the squad car and head straight to the city
hall and notify them you are on the way." And so they immediately left
with him.
Mr. BALL. Were you the senior officer there?
Mr. WESTBROOK. Possibly--I don't think there was another captain there.
There was a lieutenant and then I ordered all of them to be sure and
take the names of everyone in the theatre at that time.
Mr. BALL. We have asked for names of people in the theatre and we have
only come up with the name of George Applin. Do you know of any others?
Mr. WESTBROOK. He possibly might have been the only one in there at the
time--the rest of them might have been working there, because I'm sure
at that time of day you would have more employees than you would have
patrons.
Mr. BALL. You didn't take the names of any of the patrons?
Mr. WESTBROOK. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you see any marks on Oswald's face as you looked at him,
as close to him as you did in the theatre?
Mr. WESTBROOK. It seemed like there was a scratch or something--I don't
remember exactly--when I looked at him--maybe a slight discoloration,
or it might have been bleeding slightly.
Mr. BALL. Under the right eye?
Mr. WESTBROOK. I believe it would be--you--yes, sir; it would be under
the right eye.
Mr. BALL. Here is a picture, and who are the officers in the picture?