The testimony of Bob K. Carroll was taken at 9 a.m., on April 3, 1964,
in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and
Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Joseph A. Ball, assistant counsel
of the President's Commission.
Mr. BALL. Mr. Carroll, would you stand up please and take the oath.
Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give before this
Commission will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, so help you God?
Mr. CARROLL. I do.
Mr. BALL. Will you state your name, please?
Mr. CARROLL. Bob K. Carroll.
Mr. BALL. And what is your residence address?
Mr. CARROLL. 814 Redbud, Duncanville, Tex.
Mr. BALL. And what is your occupation?
Mr. CARROLL. Detective, Dallas Police Department.
Mr. BALL. How long have you been with the Dallas Police Department?
Mr. CARROLL. Ten years and three months.
Mr. BALL. Tell me something about yourself? Where were you born?
Mr. CARROLL. I was born here in Dallas.
Mr. BALL. Where did you go to school?
Mr. CARROLL. Sunset High.
Mr. BALL. And did you go beyond high school?
Mr. CARROLL. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. What did you do after you got out of high school?
Mr. CARROLL. Actually, I quit high school in 1947 and went to work at
Vitalic Battery Co. [spelling] V-i-t-a-l-i-c. I worked there off and
on, sometimes I believe during the seasonal layoffs and I would go
back when they started rehiring, and I worked there until I went on
active duty with the Marine Corps March 1, 1952, and I was released
from active duty in May of 1953, and when I returned to Dallas I went
to work for James A. Lewis Engineering Co., and I worked for them
for approximately 18 months and then I worked 2 months for the Texas
Highway Department on a survey crew, and then I joined the Dallas
Police Department.
Since I have been in the Dallas Police Department, I have worked the
radio and patrol divisions, the accident prevention bureau and the
special service bureau. While assigned to the special service bureau,
I worked with the narcotics section, the criminal intelligence section
and the vice section and the administrative section.
Mr. BALL. On November 22, 1963, were you on duty?
Mr. CARROLL. Yes, sir; I was.
Mr. BALL. What were your hours of work that day?
Mr. CARROLL. We were instructed to be in the assembly room at 10 a.m.
for briefing prior to the arrival of President Kennedy, and at that
time I was in the assembly room at 8 a.m.
Mr. BALL. What job was assigned to you that day?
Mr. CARROLL. I was assigned to the 700 block of Main Street.
Mr. BALL. Along the curb--did you stand along the sidewalk?
Mr. CARROLL. Yes, sir; to be there, and, of course, there were uniform
officers also assigned in that block, but I think they had one
detective for each block.
Mr. BALL. How far is 700 Main Street from Houston and Main?
Mr. CARROLL. That would be roughly about three blocks--three or four
blocks, maybe.
Mr. BALL. Did you hear the sound of any shots?
Mr. CARROLL. No, sir; I did not.
Mr. BALL. When did you first hear that the President had been shot?
Mr. CARROLL. I had walked around to a tavern around the corner. I was
walking down the street and I passed this person I know and I stepped
in this tavern to speak to him and I heard it--they turned on the TV
just as I walked in the door and I heard it on the TV set.
Mr. BALL. What did you do then?
Mr. CARROLL. I left and went to the office, and when I got to the
office I called the dispatcher and they told me to go to the scene and
I left the office and went to the garage, which is two blocks from city
hall and got a car and reported to the School Book Depository.
Mr. BALL. About what time did you get to the School Book Depository?
Mr. CARROLL. Let's see--approximately--let's see, the shooting
occurred--it was 12:30, I believe, it was approximately 1
o'clock--maybe a little before, but right around 1 o'clock, and after
I got to the Depository, they started organizing search details and I
was assigned to search the basement. Well, I went into the basement
and we determined that we needed some light in the basement, so I came
back upstairs to get some lights, and when I got upstairs I heard that
an officer had been shot in Oak Cliff, and no one had any information
on it and the people I talked to had no information, so I got on the
phone, and I called the dispatcher's office. The dispatcher stated
it was Officer Tippit who was shot and he was dead, and so when I
come back out of the office where I had used the phone, I requested
permission to go to Oak Cliff and permission was granted and I took K.
E. Lyons, and he and I left for Oak Cliff.
Mr. BALL. Is K. E. Lyons a detective?
Mr. CARROLL. He is a patrolman assigned to the special service bureau.
He doesn't work in uniform.
Mr. BALL. He works in plain clothes?
Mr. CARROLL. He works in plain clothes, but his rank is patrolman,
but we were in the 300 block of East Jefferson when the call came
out on the radio that a suspect had been seen going into the Texas
Theatre. We went immediately to the Texas Theatre, which is about five
blocks away--I think it is in the 200 block of West Jefferson, and
ourselves and the radio patrol unit were the first units to arrive at
the theatre, and we pulled to the curb and parked directly in front of
the entrance to the theatre, and the radio patrol car pulled into the
head-in parking behind us. When Lyons and I went in, a lady that was in
the theatre--I don't know who she was--she said he was upstairs, and
that was all the conversation I heard from her.
Mr. BALL. Do you know who the lady was?
Mr. CARROLL. No, sir; I have no idea.
Mr. BALL. Was it the girl who sells tickets?
Mr. CARROLL. I don't know, sir, whether it was or not.
Mr. BALL. Have you ever met Julia Postal?
Mr. CARROLL. No, sir; I never have.
Mr. BALL. And where was the lady when you talked to her?
Mr. CARROLL. I didn't actually talk to her, sir, but when we went
through the door, she just more or less--she just made a statement that
he was upstairs, and as far as having any direct conversation with
her, we did not. She said upstairs and we immediately went up to the
balcony. All of the house lights were turned on.
Mr. BALL. You and Lyons went in the front door then?
Mr. CARROLL. Yes, sir; and we went into the balcony and we had--or
rather I had satisfied myself with the fact that he wasn't in the
balcony.
Mr. BALL. Was there anyone in the balcony?
Mr. CARROLL. Well, there were people sitting around there.
Mr. BALL. How did you satisfy yourself that he was in the balcony?
Mr. CARROLL. Well, we went in and had more or less a vague idea--well,
the people that I saw up in the balcony were either real young or older
people and so we started back down----
Mr. BALL. Had you had a description of the man you were looking for?
Mr. CARROLL. They gave me a vague one on the telephone when I called
and checked about the officer.
Mr. BALL. Who are "they"?
Mr. CARROLL. Whoever was on duty at the dispatcher's office--I don't
know who it was at that time.
Mr. BALL. What was the description that he gave you?
Mr. CARROLL. He just gave a general height description and age--just
generally.
Mr. BALL. Tell me what he said.
Mr. CARROLL. I'm trying to recall now exactly--he gave the height and I
can't recall now exactly how he said it--it's been so long ago, and it
was all--I know he gave roughly, just a rough description. It wasn't a
detailed description at all, and I'm trying to remember now exactly how
he worded it.
Mr. BALL. Can you give me the approximate age--around?
Mr. CARROLL. I believe he said he was between 20 or 25 or something,
like that, I'm not quite sure, because everything moved real fast and
everything like that.
Mr. BALL. And you don't have anything from which you can refresh your
memory, I suppose?
Mr. CARROLL. No, sir; not as to that.
Mr. BALL. You didn't make a note of it?
Mr. CARROLL. It was just strictly a telephone conversation--no, sir.
Mr. BALL. At any rate, when you looked at the balcony, did you see
anyone who fitted this vague description that had been given you over
the telephone by the dispatcher?
Mr. CARROLL. Not that I thought fit it.
Mr. BALL. What did you do then?
Mr. CARROLL. Well, I started down the stairs and was going back down to
the lower floor when I heard someone holler something--I believe it was
"Here he is," or something like that. I mean, it was a loud holler, you
could tell it wasn't just someone talking, and I started running, and
Lyons fell--he sprained his ankle--and I started running and I came up
to the right of Oswald. I came up to the right and Sergeant Hill to the
left, and then Ray Hawkins was in the aisle behind him--he come up in
the aisle behind from the left.
Mr. BALL. You came from the left aisle, did you, down the row of seats?
Mr. CARROLL. No, sir; facing the screen, I came from the right aisle
and then come up on Oswald's right.
Mr. BALL. Who came from Oswald's left, facing the screen?
Mr. CARROLL. Jerry Hill--Sgt. Jerry Hill.
Mr. BALL. And then, who came from behind?
Mr. CARROLL. Ray Hawkins.
Mr. BALL. Where were you when you heard the sound "I've got him"?
Mr. CARROLL. Just coming off of the stairs from the balcony.
Mr. BALL. And you ran to the orchestra entrance--did you--to the aisle?
Mr. CARROLL. To the aisle from the lobby--you come downstairs into the
lower lobby and the aisles lead off the lower lobby, and I come through
the lobby and he was sitting rather close, I don't know exactly which
row of seats it was, but it was back close to the back of the theatre.
Mr. BALL. And how many seats in from the right aisle, as you faced the
screen?
Mr. CARROLL. It was approximately--close to the center of the second
bunch of seats.
Mr. BALL. What did you see when you came into the entrance to the aisle?
Mr. CARROLL. I saw standing up at the time--Oswald was standing up
there at that time. Several of us were converging at the same time upon
him.
Mr. BALL. Where was McDonald?
Mr. CARROLL. He was on Oswald's, let me see, the first time I think I
saw Nick was, I believe he was on Oswald's right side.
Mr. BALL. Were they struggling?
Mr. CARROLL. Everyone was struggling with him--yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. I mean, were Oswald and McDonald struggling together?
Mr. CARROLL. Yes, sir; and then when I got up close enough, I saw a
pistol pointing at me so I reached and grabbed the pistol and jerked
the pistol away and stuck it in my belt, and then I grabbed Oswald.
Mr. BALL. Who had hold of that pistol at that time?
Mr. CARROLL. I don't know, sir. I just saw the pistol pointing at me
and I grabbed it and jerked it away from whoever had it and that's all,
and by that time then the handcuffs were put on Oswald.
Mr. BALL. Who put them on him?
Mr. CARROLL. I'm not sure who actually put the handcuffs on--I think it
was Ray Hawkins.
Mr. BALL. Put them on from behind?
Mr. CARROLL. Yes, sir.