THE PRESIDENT: Well, that does not mean that it has been put in
evidence. That only means that it is identified in that way. Had it been
offered in evidence before?
GEN. ALEXANDROV: I do not know the U.S.A. number of this document, but
according to the data at my disposal I am able to state that it was
submitted in evidence to the Tribunal. In the German copy, presented in
the German language, it is written that the German translation was made
on 26 November 1945 by Second Lieutenant of the U. S. Infantry, Fred
Niebergall. As Dr. Nelte has discovered certain inaccuracies in the
translation, I consider that the Translation Division should be asked to
check these divergencies.
DR. NELTE: I am convinced, Mr. President...
THE PRESIDENT: I think that is the best thing to do, to have it checked
by the Translation Division. We will order that that shall be done at
once.
GEN. ALEXANDROV: [_Turning to the defendant._] The transcript of
Defendant Rosenberg’s speech will be handed over to you immediately. I
shall limit myself to a very short excerpt from this transcript. Please
read after me:
“Part of them imagine that the road to Germany is somewhat
similar to the road to Siberia.”
And further:
“I know that if 1½ million people are brought here, they cannot
be given the best accommodations. The fact that thousands of
people are badly housed or badly treated is obvious. It is not
worth while worrying about that. However, this is a very
reasonable question, and I believe that Gauleiter Sauckel has
already discussed it, or will do so. These people from the East
are being brought to Germany in order to work and to endeavor to
reach as high a level of production as possible. This is quite a
reasonable transaction. In order to reach this production
capacity one should naturally not bring them over three-quarters
frozen or let them stand for 10 hours. One must rather give them
enough to eat that they will have reserve strength.”
Does Defendant Rosenberg correctly describe the conditions in which the
workers you brought from the occupied territories found themselves, or
do you consider that Defendant Rosenberg has not described them
correctly?
SAUCKEL: I cannot say and do not know when Rosenberg made this speech. I
myself did not hear it or receive a copy of it. I can, however,
definitely state that as soon as I came into office I made most
extensive arrangements, so that the conditions which Rosenberg discusses
here—and which can have nothing to do with my term of office—might be
avoided under all circumstances. It was for that purpose that I issued
those most comprehensive orders. To prevent such conditions I planned
hundreds of valid and binding instructions of a legal nature, affecting
every nationality working in Germany, which would make such conditions
impossible. That is what I have to say to that. It cannot refer to
conditions during my term of office.
GEN. ALEXANDROV: Mr. President, I shall limit myself to this one single
excerpt from the speech of the Defendant Rosenberg, and I shall not
avail myself of the numerous documents already presented to the
Tribunal, documents which confirm beyond all manner of doubt the
criminal methods applied—with the full cognizance of the Defendant
Sauckel—for the mobilization of manpower in the occupied territories
and for the exploitation of the workers as slaves in Germany.
I shall only submit to the Tribunal one single new document, listed as
Document Number USSR-468. This document is a worker’s identity card
issued by the German authorities in Breslau to a Polish citizen, Maria
Atler. This card is characterized by the fact that it is stamped on the
reverse side with the image of a pig. Maria Atler has stated on oath
that such worker’s identity cards were issued to all foreign workers in
1944 by the German authorities in Breslau. Together with this original
document I am submitting a certificate of the Polish State Commission
which quotes the testimony of the witness Maria Atler.
[_Turning to the defendant._] Defendant Sauckel, have you looked at that
worker’s identity card? Have you found the image of a pig on that card?
SAUCKEL: Yes.
GEN. ALEX ANDROV: Did you know of the existence of such workers’ cards,
stamped with the image of a pig as an insult to human dignity?
SAUCKEL: I did not have cards like that, and I knew nothing about it. I
cannot quite make out what this image is meant to be. I have nothing at
all to do with this. I am not familiar with such an identification mark
on a card and do not know what I am to say about it. I do not know
whether it was possible for some labor administration office to use such
identification marks or not. I should like permission to see the
original.
GEN. ALEXANDROV: Did you know of the existence of such cards and of
their utilization?
SAUCKEL: No, I had no idea of the existence of such cards with images
like that. It was not to my advantage, and I had no reason at all to
offend such people who were working in Germany. I had no idea of that,
and I do not know what this was meant to be.
GEN. ALEXANDROV: I shall now quote a brief excerpt from Document Number
USSR-170. This is a transcript of the minutes of a conference held with
Reich Marshal Göring on 6 August 1942. I shall quote that part of the
statement in which the Defendant Göring expresses his appreciation of
your activities. I quote:
“To that I must say that I do not wish to praise Gauleiter
Sauckel; he does not need it. But what he has done in this brief
time to collect workers from all over Europe and bring them to
our factories with such rapidity is a unique feat. I will say
this to you all: If everybody in his own sphere would apply a
tenth of the energy which Gauleiter Sauckel has applied, then
indeed the tasks which have been assigned to you would be easily
fulfilled. That is my inner conviction and not mere words.”
Did you hear such an appreciation of your activities from the lips of
Reich Marshal Göring?
SAUCKEL: It is possible that the Reich Marshal said that. I cannot
remember the details of a meeting that took place so long ago. What is
correct is that I, as a human being and as a member of my nation, was
obliged to do my duty. My documents prove that I tried to do my duty
decently and humanely. I did my utmost to do that.
GEN. ALEXANDROV: I now submit to the Tribunal a document listed as
Document Number USSR-462. It is an article by Dr. Friedrich Didier,
published in the _Reichsarbeitsblatt_ of 1944. This is an official
publication of the Reich Ministry of Labor and of the Plenipotentiary
General for the Allocation of Labor. The article is entitled “Fritz
Sauckel on his Fiftieth Birthday.”
I do not intend to quote this article as it is written entirely in
praise of Sauckel’s activities, and there is no reason to dwell on it. I
only wish to ask you, Defendant Sauckel, are you acquainted with this
article?
SAUCKEL: I do not know this article. I cannot say what is in it. I was
not always able to read through the _Reichsarbeitsblatt_—it wasn’t
published by me. It is an old institution of the Labor Ministry which
contains all the decrees published by that Ministry and also my decrees.
The decrees in the _Reichsarbeitsblatt_ all testify to my concern for
foreign and for German workers.
GEN. ALEXANDROV: Then you will have to acquaint yourself very rapidly
with the contents of this article. It will be handed to you immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: What document is this he is reading?
GEN. ALEXANDROV: It is an article in the _Reichsarbeitsblatt_ entitled
“Fritz Sauckel on his Fiftieth Birthday.” We are submitting this
document for the first time as Document Number USSR-462.
[_Turning to the defendant._] Are you now conversant with it? Tell us,
does this article correctly characterize your political and governmental
activity?
SAUCKEL: The author of this article is not an expert. I cannot make any
further comments on the contents of a birthday article. It contains a
very cursory description of my career and my sphere of work.
GEN. ALEXANDROV: And now, one last question. In your speech at the first
meeting of the staffs for the Allocation of Labor, held in Weimar on 6
January 1943, you stated—and I quote from the third document book of
your defense counsel, Document Number Sauckel-82:
“Now, where the foundations of our work are concerned...”—I
skip the first paragraph and pass directly to the second—“We
are true to our Führer and to our people. This loyalty justifies
us in the execution of the harshest measures.”—And then, at the
end—“In this respect I will assume ever-increasing
responsibility.”
Tell us now, are you assuming responsibility for the enforced mass
deportation into slavery of the population of the occupied territories,
for the suffering and misery of the millions you drove into slavery, for
the grim period of slaveholding which you revived in the twentieth
century?
SAUCKEL: I am most grateful to you that you quoted this document at this
very moment. Would you show me this document so that I can give the
correct explanation of my views as contained therein?
GEN. ALEXANDROV: If necessary, your defense counsel will acquaint you
with this document.
Mr. President, I have finished my cross-examination.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Thoma, do you want to re-examine?
DR. THOMA: Witness, what was Rosenberg’s role, as Minister for the
Occupied Eastern Territories, in the execution of the Allocation of
Labor?
SAUCKEL: The Minister for the Occupied Eastern Territories, in carrying
out the Allocation of Labor, had to pass on my wishes and demands to the
offices under him in that Ministry insofar as they related to my tasks.
I cannot, of course, comment on the other departments in the Ministry
for the Occupied Eastern Territories, which I do not know.
DR. THOMA: Did not Rosenberg tell you repeatedly that he would give
Reich Commissioner Koch directions to make use of his authority?
SAUCKEL: That is correct. It was one of Rosenberg’s tasks to give orders
to Reich Commissioner Koch, who was under him, in every field of
administration there.
DR. THOMA: So that the way you understood it was that he was to give him
instructions. In what way?
SAUCKEL: Rosenberg did and should—as we had expressly agreed—give
instructions to Koch to put a stop to any wild and objectionable methods
which were contrary to my instructions; and that Rosenberg did, as far
as I know.
DR. THOMA: Rosenberg, by referring to the authority of the Reich
Commissioner, meant that he was to prohibit your recruiting methods and
no longer permit your recruiting units to bring away Eastern Workers?
SAUCKEL: Rosenberg never said that to me, rather he denied it; for these
commissions, while they were in the Ukraine, were subordinate to and
part of the labor allocation department of Reich Commissioner Koch. Koch
was the supervising authority and the administrative authority for such
matters. Those are the undeniable facts.
DR. THOMA: May I point out to the Tribunal that a Document,
Rosenberg-10, shows that Sauckel did not understand this statement of
Rosenberg’s.
THE PRESIDENT: Did you refer to some document there, Dr. Thoma?
DR. THOMA: Rosenberg-10.
DR. SERVATIUS: Mr. President, the re-examination of the witness by the
defense counsel for the Defendant Rosenberg must limit itself to new
matters which have been brought up and are the subject of argument.
There was every opportunity, when his client was in the witness stand,
to clarify these questions. At the time I wanted to clear up this
question on my own initiative, but I was informed that I ought to ask
Sauckel. He made a clear statement here, and in my opinion there is no
cause once more to come back in this connection to documents which
belong to a previous period of the defense. I object to such
questioning.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, Dr. Thoma, I think you had better go on and ask
your next question. I have not got the document before me yet that you
are putting to the witness, or referring to. What is your next question?
DR. THOMA: Witness, did you not in your program assume full
responsibility for the Allocation of Labor?
SAUCKEL: I assumed responsibility, and I acknowledge it, for what came
within the limits of my power—I cannot do more than that—and for what
I ordered and for what I caused to be done. This collection of decrees,
Dr. Thoma, has been submitted and was shown to Herr Rosenberg...
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Thoma, the defendant has been over this all before.
He has been all through this before—about his responsibility.
DR. THOMA: Mr. President, may I point out that regarding the question of
responsibility, there is a certain paragraph—the decisive
paragraph—which has not yet been read. It is Document 016-PS concerning
the labor allocation program, and it says on Page 21, Figure 1...
THE PRESIDENT: Just say what the document is again, will you Dr. Thoma?
DR. THOMA: 016-PS, Page 20 of the German document. It says:
“All technical and administrative procedure of labor allocation
is subject exclusively to the jurisdiction and responsibility of
the Plenipotentiary General for the Allocation of Labor, the
regional labor offices and the labor offices...”
SAUCKEL: Inside Germany, Doctor. Outside Germany I was, of course,
subject to the competent chiefs of the areas in question. That is quite
obvious.
DR. THOMA: In reply to that answer I draw the attention of the Tribunal
to Page 15 of this labor program. This Figure 1, which I have just read,
comes under the paragraph, “Prisoners of War and Foreign Workers.”
SAUCKEL: To the extent that they were employed in Germany.
DR. THOMA: May I point out that it states clearly under Figure 1:
“All technical and administrative procedure of labor allocation...”
SAUCKEL: And may I point out that it was not possible for me to
interfere with Reich Commissioner Koch’s authority. He had said
expressly that he would not permit that.
DR. THOMA: Witness, the Delegate for the Four Year Plan gave you special
powers concerning conscription in dealings with all authorities and, in
my opinion, it is not right that you should now deny these methods of
recruitment and pass responsibility for them on to the Minister for the
Occupied Eastern Territories.