“The Führer cannot understand that, in the struggle for the
future of Europe, the country which has to bear the brunt of
this struggle is the one to suffer most from hunger; whereas in
France...”
THE PRESIDENT: It is on Page 1 or Page 4?
M. HERZOG: No, Mr. President, on Page 4 of the French text—that is to
say, on the last page.
“The Führer cannot understand that, in the struggle for the
future of Europe, the country which has to bear the brunt of
this struggle is the one to suffer most from hunger; whereas in
France, in Holland, in Hungary, in the Ukraine, or anywhere
else, there is no talk of hunger. He desires that it should be
the reverse in the future. As regards the foreign workers living
in the Reich—with the exclusion of the Eastern Workers—little
by little their rations must be reduced and made to correspond
to their output. It is not admissible that lazy Dutchmen or
Italians should receive better rations than good Eastern
Workers. In principle the guiding rule of utmost output must
apply equally to feeding.”
[_Turning to the defendant._] I ask you what you meant when you stated
that, “In principle the guiding rule of utmost output must apply equally
to feeding?”
SAUCKEL: There was a standard ration in the Reich which was increased by
additional rations based on output or performance. I fought for the
principle that these additional rations, which the workers from the West
were already largely receiving, should be granted to the workers from
the East as well; and that where western workers—that is, Dutch and
Belgian workers—did not keep up their output in the same way as the
Eastern Workers, these additional rations should be cut down
accordingly, but not the standard ration which applied to the German
people as well.
M. HERZOG: You therefore consider that if the output of one worker is
smaller than that of another, his food rations must be smaller. Is that
what I am to understand?
SAUCKEL: No, it is not right to interpret it that way. I should like to
explain the system again. In Germany each worker received his ration as
fixed by the Reich Minister for Food. In addition to that there were
special increases as a reward for increased output. At the beginning
these additional rations were not granted to Russian workers, and it is
these additional rations we are dealing with here; not with starving
people, or cutting down their standard food rations—additional rations
for increased output.
THE PRESIDENT: Perhaps we had better adjourn now.
[_A recess was taken._]
MARSHAL: If it pleases the Tribunal, the report is made that the
Defendant Raeder is absent.
THE PRESIDENT: M. Herzog, do you anticipate being able to conclude your
cross-examination before half past 4?
M. HERZOG: Yes, Mr. President, I think that I might even finish before
that.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well.
M. HERZOG: Defendant Sauckel, I offered in evidence this morning
Document Number F-810, which is an account of the conference which you
held on 15 and 16 July 1944 at Wartburg with the heads of the regional
labor offices. Do you remember?
SAUCKEL: Yes, I remember.
M. HERZOG: Do you remember whether during this conference the question
was raised as to the discipline to be imposed upon the workers?
SAUCKEL: It is possible that during this conference—or
conferences—this question was discussed. I cannot remember exactly; I
did not participate in all the sessions.