THE PRESIDENT: Oh, I see.
M. HERZOG: “Between me, Minister Speer, and the Ministry of
Labor there were two counsellors, Dr. Stothfang ... and Landrat
Berk. They were jurists and experts in national economy. Dr.
Stothfang was commissioned to act principally as liaison officer
with the Ministry of Labor...”
Why did you tell me a few minutes ago that you had no liaison officer
with the Ministry of Labor?
SAUCKEL: I made it quite clear that there were two departments which
belonged to the Ministry of Labor, Departments 3 and 5; and this
Ministerialrat Dr. Stothfang was formerly the personal assistant to
State Secretary Syrup. In a few isolated cases he had discussions with
State Secretary Syrup at my request, that is true; but these were not
important. In general the departments themselves were in touch with the
Ministry of Labor.
M. HERZOG: You confirm then, that you had a liaison officer at the
Ministry of Labor and another in Minister Speer’s office?
SAUCKEL: I confirm that for occasional conferences. But these gentlemen
were attached to those departments, and they came to me as my personal
consultants and did not work in that Ministry. I cannot say either
whether in this case the translation is correct. I do not remember
exactly, but in principle it is correct.
But these gentlemen worked with me.
M. HERZOG: And will you please tell the Tribunal what the
Stabsbesprechung was?
SAUCKEL: Stabsbesprechung was a conference on technical questions in
which the various ministries or industrial employers participated who
needed labor and the questions which had to be considered were
discussed. I could not act independently, of course, as you have heard.
M. HERZOG: Who instituted these conferences, this new arrangement, these
staff conferences? Who took the initiative in instituting them?
SAUCKEL: These staff conferences were instituted by me in order to
obtain a clear conception of all these important questions, because in
no regime or government in the world can anything be done in the dark.
M. HERZOG: You confirm then that these various kinds of liaison imply a
common responsibility as to decisions taken by each one of you in the
matter of manpower?
SAUCKEL: This question is not clear to me technically or
administratively, for I could not do anything with the workers. I had to
give them to other people, and I had to discuss the way this was to be
done. But these conferences did not take place with the idea of a
conspiracy or of a criminal act; they were the same kind of conferences
as formerly took place. I have been present at conferences under a
parliamentary system, and matters were dealt with in exactly the same
way.
M. HERZOG: That is not what I was asking you. I was asking you whether
you confirmed that the existence of these liaison officers to Minister
Speer and the Minister of Labor, on the one hand, and the existence of
this new organization that you created, on the other hand, implied a
common responsibility in the decisions regarding manpower taken by
Minister Speer, the Minister of Labor, and by you?
SAUCKEL: I cannot answer this question with a definite “no,” as orders
were given to me which, as a German official, I had to carry out in this
case; and in order to carry them out I had to hold conferences. It was
not possible to do otherwise, for it was not I personally, but German
economy, that demanded and used these workers. This matter had to be
settled in some way, regardless of whether German or other workers were
concerned; and the same situation applied in normal times.
M. HERZOG: Is it a fact that, after you were appointed, you were
authorized to be represented by special representatives in the military
and civil departments of the occupied areas?
SAUCKEL: After 30 October—I cannot state the exact date—at the
instigation of the Führer, I appointed representatives to the
governments in the occupied countries. I mentioned this yesterday
through my counsel.
M. HERZOG: The 30th of October? I think you mean the decree of 30
September 1942. It is a mistake on your part for the decree is dated 30
September.
SAUCKEL: I am sorry, I do not know the exact date.
M. HERZOG: Is it right that these representatives, appointed by that
decree, were directly subordinate to you?
SAUCKEL: Insofar as they were my delegates, that is, for the passing on
of orders, they were subordinate to me.
M. HERZOG: Is it true that they were authorized to give directives to
the civilian and military authorities in the occupied territories?
SAUCKEL: That is correct as far as orders were concerned, but it is not
true in general. It was a technical matter.
M. HERZOG: Who was your delegate with the occupation authorities in
France?
SAUCKEL: The delegate with the occupation authorities in France was,
first of all, President Ritter; he was murdered in Paris. And after him,
President Glatzel.