the last Assembly, they did so upon ane of two grounds—either becaus
they could not thinke lay Elders to be lawfull members of the Assembly,
or becaus their judgment went not along with us anent Episcopacie,
in both which our Masters judgment was ane and the same with them.
Yet now, upon their acknowledgment of their errours in these, and
submitting themselves to this Assembly, I only remitt it to your
consideration if yow can thinke yow should deale so strictlie with our
Master, who hes condiscended so farr to our desires, that he may not
expect something may be done in this, since it may be done without
prejudice to the Constitutions of the Kirk whereof yow pretend yow are
so tender. Therefore I desire this Assemblie to consider wiselie of
it, and not to be led away with your aune particulars—their spleene at
these men or their affection to others whom they would have in their
roume.
The Moderatour said—It is our purpose to put a difference betwixt those
who have only done according to their light in these two things your
Grace mentions, and betwixt those whose life and doctrine have beine
scandalous, and to shew all the moderation to that sort that your Grace
desires.
The Commissioner said—I believe some of the members of this Assembly,
who were appoynted yesternight to speake with me, dealt so ingenuouslie
with me as to say, that although there were many things alleadged
against these ministers, yet could they not be legallie tryed,
except with these things that I have alleadged; for though they were
scandalous in some thinges, yet could there be no formall proces led
against them. Now it is a dangerous position, that a man shall be
condemned for suspicions, becaus his air and the way of his carriage
agries not with others. Let us looke to it; for though in their
judgement they would not subscryve the Covenant nor allow lay elders,
yet to sentence them for that, I thinke it a dangerous rule.
The Moderatour answered—Grants to your Grace; but so purpose we to
proceed that our moderation shall so appeare as your Grace shall
consent als willinglie as we.
The Moderatour desired Mr Andro Ramsay, Mr Alexʳ Henrysone, and Lord
Lowdoun to declair their judgments.
Mr Andro Ramsay said—I thinke there is no man but he will applause
to your Grace in general; but as for the particulars, they who are
judges can cognosce better, and upon their relation the judgment of the
Assembly may rest; for, as I said yesterday, there are four causes of
their removing or deprivation from their Kirks; either becaus they have
not consented to the Acts of the Assembly, or becaus they have deserted
their flockes, or for corruption of doctrine, or for vitiousnes of
life. The two last his Grace pleads not, but only for the first two,
which I remitt to the judgment of the Assembly and thinkes it should be
handlit with moderation to his Graces satisfaction.
Mr Alexʳ Hendersone said—Truelie for my selfe I have no spleen against
any of these Ministers, and I believe they have none at me. I have
beine more blamed this tyme bygone, for that that is called moderation,
than for any great vehemencie against any persone; but for that the
Commissioners Grace hes beine saying, I thinke verilie there will be
many that will be willing to submitt themselves to the judgment and
determination of the Assembly. But I should wishe that they would
confesse some errours in their judgment before they submitt themselves.
Alwayes I thinke it is but a dabling with untempered mortar. These
that are not of the judgement of our Kirk, they will be pleased to
professe themselves to be such, and then let them be conferred with
and convinced. As for others againe whose judgment has gone after
their affection and their affection after the world, these hes need
of repentance; but I thinke they should first acknowledge that there
is something done amisse, and that they have beine guiltie of some
errours; and I thinke by your confession they doe great honour to God,
and establishe a more perfect peace betwixt them and their brethren.
Lord Lowdoun said—So many of them as have not beine present where they
were processed upon, and representation of their case to this Assembly
by supplication, deserves to have their proces considered of here, or
some appoynted by the whole Assembly to heare them.
Mr Alexʳ said—I thinke, verilie, there should be a difference put
betweene those who have not followed their practise according to the
tymes then, but also hes troubled others beside them, yea, and hes run
into England to doe all the ill they could there, and betwixt these
who in modestie and simplicitie, so to speake, hes followed their oune
judgment, thinking it to be right.
The Commissioner said—I shall only differ from Mr Alexander Hendersones
opinion in this—that I believe that none of the ministers that went
to England, went neither out of wantonnes, nor of a purpose of oary
misinformation, but meirlie out of necessitie, for not having stockes
of money. I thinke were [it] not the Kings bountie they should have
starved, and with what peace and securitie could they live here during
the troubles of this countrie? so it was not only but fitting, but
necessar that they should goe.
Mr Alexʳ Hendersone said—Divers of them went to England with full
purses, and others of them stayed at home in securitie; so that it is
evident neither povertie nor fear made them goe out of the Kingdome.
Earle of Rothes said—I thinke, according to the order of this Kirke,
which we cannot goe by—for there are cleare Acts for it—ye must take
the reportes of these that have beine on the former committies, and
then it shall be fitt to cognosce of particulars according to the
degries of the faults and the measure of their repentance; and I assert
so much to the Commissioners Grace, that if these men be so free as
his Grace declaires, I trow there hath beine so much moderation shawen
in the Act of the deposition, that they were sought with all earnestnes
and kindnes to acknowledge their mother Kirk; and I believe that some
charitable disposition will remain still. But can it be thought enough
that a man shall come in heir before this Assemblie, and declair that
he assents unto the institutions of this Kirk, who is knowne not only
to be in some things corrupt in his judgement, but disassenting from
the orthodox doctrine of the Kirk of Scotland, and corrupted with many
moe errours.
The Commissioner said—I suspect if yow looke some of your processes,
you shall find litle more proven against some of them, but these
thinges whereof I have spocken, except it be some pycked quarrells. But
if your Lordship and this Assembly conceaves that we can doe nothing in
that but by takeing in the reportes and makeing formall Acts thereupon,
which is nothing but to evince what we professe to ayme at, and to fall
upon those rockes which we have hitherto eschued, I doe professe that
I can neither consent nor be a witnes unto it. As for the second—for
being of adverse judgment, I hope yow are not so cruell as absolutelie
to condemne a man for being of a contrare opinion anent Ruleing Elders
or such other.
Rothes said—If any man hes made a declaration to your Grace that
they have beine processed for no other crymes then that, your Grace
should notifie such; and I thinke the Assemblie being now conveined,
he that thinkes himselfe thus wronged—that thinges have beine layd to
his charge that it cannot be cleared—it should be considered by the
Assemblie. As for your Graces answer to the last parte of my speach,
my meaning is—not only any opinion of unlawfulnes of Lay Elders, but a
judgment different from the whole frame of the doctrine of our Church
at the Reformation as it is now restoired, and likewayes comitted
Arminianisme and Poppishe tenets: and here I cannot but remember that
man who, in presence of your Grace, layd some imputations against some
worthie Members of this Assemblie. For my parte, I presse that this
proces may be ryped up againe, and I can bear witnes that that man
Mr John Lindsey, sometyme Minister at Carstaires, hath beene corrupt
in his judgment, hereticall in his doctrine, directlie opposite and
adverse from the judgement of the Kirk of Scotland, and a maine
incendiarie and enemie to the worke of reformation in this land.
This shall be made good to your Grace; and if your Grace would paine
yourselfe with the particular, we shall cleare it to your Graces
satisfaction.
The Commissioner said—I desire to eschue nothing so much as the rypeing
up of the particulars that reflex upon one of zon rockes that we have
hitherto eschued; and if this Assemblie will goe on to their formalitie
anent these reportes which I will not dispute much against yow, yow
shall force me to a protestation which I have hitherto spaired; and,
therefore, I shall desire that some such motion may be made how this
rocke may be eschued.
My Lord Argyle said—Becaus it may be, the Commissioners Grace spaires
to speake such free language as need were, for feare of offence, and,
on the other pairt, the Moderatour doeth in free termes expresse
himselfe for fear to light upon the other rocke, and so it may be, many
of this Assembly knowes neither what his Grace nor the Moderatour would
be at: therefore I represent to the Assembly that all may understand
what we would be at, and I believe that soe much tyme and losse as the
agitation of it in publict would take, will suffice to cleare the
matter better in privat.
To the whilk motion the Commissioners Grace and the whole Assembly
did applaud, and for that effect did nominat—[not named].—Becaus the
roll of their names was inlarged and given in more perfectlie the next
Session, we here omitt it.[234]
The Supplication of the Toune of Edinburgh for the transportation of
Mr Robert Douglas from Kirkcaldie to Edinburgh, was againe presented
to the Assemblie; and after the hearing and reading of all reasons
betweene Kirkcaldie, Mr Robert Dowglas, and the Toune of Edinburgh, the
rolls were called, and the said Mr Robert Douglas was chosen Minister
to Edinʳ by the farr greatest parte of the voices.
To met at 4 a clock in the afternoone.
Sess. 13.—_Hora quarta_ in the afternoone.
After prayer, the Moderatour said—According as we left before noone,
we have beine taking some course how exceptions may be taken away from
any that would desire to carpe either at our forme or our present
proceedings. As we appoint a Committie to take in the Reportes, so
have we now, to facilitat our bussines—so have we now inlarged the
number, and divided them againe in four Committies, for the greater
accelerating of matters: viz., ane for Edinburgh and Jedburgh—the 2ᵈ
for Irwing and Kirkcudbright—the 3ᵈ for Sᵗ Androwes and Kirkcaldie—and,
4, for Aberdeine and Forrest.
For Edinʳ and Jedburgh, Mr Robert Knox, and so foorth, _hic deest_.
The Supplication of Leith being againe presented and red in face of
the Assemblie, Mr James Scharpe, Minister at Govan, was transported to
Leith, with the consent of all the Assembly, none opposeing.
A Complaint of ane Mr Robert Hatsone, Minister at Grange, upon ane
George Jamesone, for stryking and abusing of the said Mr Robert to the
indangering of his life, for no caus but becaus the said Mr Robert had
summond him before the Presbitrie for living in fornication, referred
earnestlie and humblie to the consideration of the Commissioners Grace.
A Complaint from the Toune of Peiblis against their reader, referred to
the Presbitrie.
A Supplication for the transportation of Mr Frederick Carmichaell from
_______________ to _______________ referred to the Presbitrie.
A Bill of Forgane in Fife, for Mr David Forrests transportation,
Minister at _____________, referred to the Presbitrie.
The Bill of Invernes against their Minister, referred to the
Provinceall Assemblie.
A Supplicatione for the change of the Presbitrie seat of Mearnes,
referred to the Committie for the Billes.
The names of these that were to preach on the Sabbath day, &c. [not
given.]
The forsaid Committie to meit with my Lord Commissioners Grace in
the severall roumes of the Tolbuith, to-morrow, at 6 a clocke. The
Assemblie to meit at 10.
Sessio 14.—_Hora decima_, Friday, [23 August.]
After prayer, the Moderatour desired the four severall Committies to
give in their diligence; and, first, for the north, Mr David Lindsey,
Moderatour of that Committie, gave in the summe of the proces against
Mr George Gordoune, which was found to bare beine clearlie proven, and
the Assemblie did approve the sentence of the Commission against him.
A Supplication from Mr James Sandilands, Canonist in the Kings Colledge
of Aberdeine: That whereas the late Commission from the Generall
Assemblie had abolished the said facultie whereof he was Professor,
did therefore supplicat the Assemblie for annulling the said Act, in
respect he was only cited before the Commission to be examined upon his
personall carriage, and, therefore, neither had they warrand to doe
further, nor he was bound to answer them in further, and that becaus
there were not a sufficient quorum there present at that tyme.
The Assemblie, at the desire of the Commisioners Grace, delayed it till
the next Session.
As there were some other Reports coming in,
Lowdoun said—The tyme for the Assemblie is now far spent, and the
Parliament approaching verie neare; and, doubtles, there are many
materiall things to be done before the closure of this Assemblie. It
wer fitt that these matters be pretermitted. I shall represent this
to your consideration to be thought upon. Since all of these deposed
Ministers, who are desirous to be heard, are either such whose faults
are so palpable grosse, that on the first view they may be seene to
deserve their sentence, these does not deserve in so short a tyme
to have re-entrie to the Ministry, and so needs not to trouble the
Assembly at this tyme. Others are mainly, declyning the Generall
Assembly, who otherwayes are not so vitious, and who, now professing
penitence, would be receaved upon their repentance, and the more
moderatelie dealt with, that the Commissioners Grace doth now solicite
for them. Others also whose proces is more dark and intricat might be
laid by at this tyme, that so, if our tyme cutt us schort, whichever is
left, it may be of thir personall matters.
To the which motion the Assemblie, with the Commissioners Graces
consent, did applaud, and, for that effect, desired the severall
Committies to take up a roll of these who were onlie deposed for
declyning the Assemblie, and were now supplicants, and to put a
difference between these and others who were more grosse in life and
erroneous in doctrine; and so, matters being made cleare before they
came to the Assemblie, it would facilitat the matter greatlie.
To meit at 4 afternoone.
Sess. 15.—At 4 a clocke in the afternoone.
After prayer, the Moderatour of the Committie for Edinʳ and Jedburgh
did report, that they had seene the Supplicatiouns of Mr Robert
Hamilton, Minister at Lesmahago, Mr John Hamilton, Minister at
Dalserff, Mr William Forbes, Minister at Campsie, Mr James Hamilton,
Minister at Hamilton, and we find them of different natures—some of
them exceeding humble and penitent to us, others of them nothing so.
As for Mr Robert Hamilton, the Committie thinkes he is not to be
suddainlie receaved; for he was that ingenuous as to confesse his
opinion of universall grace, and said it was verie probable. And lyke
wayes his error anent the matter of baptisme.
The matter being put to voiceing, the whole Assemblie, in ane voice,
did allow and approve the proces and sentence given out against the
said Mr Robert by the Commission.
The Commissioners Grace did so allow the same, but only as ane Act of
this Assemblie.
The second Report was of Mr John Hamilton, Minister at Dalserff, whose
proces was cleare—guiltie of symonie at his entrie; changing of the
Elders of the Kirk, contrare to the order of the Kirk, for his oune
ends; concealing of adulteries; miscarriages upon the Sabbath day.
The rolles being called, the Assemblie did approve the sentence against
him.
The Commissioners Grace alleadged that these were verie hard
proceedings, and he was affrayed they should yet run themselves upon
ane of the rockes they had hitherto eschewed.
It was answered by the Earle of Rothes, Lord Lowdoun, and the
Moderatour, that they behoved to testify their detestation of such lewd
practises and erroneous opinions, as they loved the honour of their
Lord and Master, who was very jealous of it; and yet, so as they should
be most willing to testifie their compassion to any penitent persones;
and desired that, if the Commissioners Grace knew a better way to
eschew rockes, his Grace would declair it, and they would follow it.
The 4 Report was Mr David Fletchair, who was deposed for reading of the
Service Booke, and subscryving of the Declinatour, but was uther wayes
a man of good behaviour, and free of all sort of heresie, and was now
truelie penitent for that which he had done.
The Assemblie did approve the sentence, but did grant him the freedome
to be receaved to the ministrie at the first occasion that should offer.
Mr Wᵐ Forbes, Mr James Hamilton, Minister at Hamilton, and Mr James
Hamilton, Minister at Cambusnethan, deleyed till the morne.
The Assemblie to meit at 9 a clocke; and so, after thanksgiving, the
Assemblie dismissed.
Sess. 16.—August 24, _die Saturnæ, hora nona_.
After prayer, the Moderatour said—The reason of our stay so long this
morning is, becaus we are labouring for a fair way, and we find the
Commissioners Grace verie much inclyned unto it. And we are seeking
to give such a meeting as becomes good and obedient subjects, and for
that end we trust delay to speake of the rest of the reportes at this
tyme, if the Assemblie shall so thinke it fitt. In the meanetyme I
regrate that this nationall Kirk suffers under a declaration fathered
upon the Kings Majestie. I regrate that many honourable members of this
Kirk suffers lykewayes: yea, I regrate most of all that his Majestie
suffers, being made the speaker of the whole storie, which could not
come to his Majestie but by reporte; and therefore I desire that this
may be taken to consideration, how the Kings honour may be repaired—how
the honour of this Nationall Kirk may be repaired; and that every thing
in this bussinesse may be done as becomes such a grave Assemblie,
assisted with the Kings Commissioner.
The Commissioner answered—For the first parte of your discourse, our
deley is taken in good parte by all honest men who thinkes no tyme long
nor ill spent in rectifying abuses, and in that fair way as may give
content both to the King and people. And if on the other parte, they
thinke not this a worke of difficultie, they are mistaken. Therefore
let us lay aside all consideration in thir particulars that may
concerne ourselves, and with patience and moderation goe on as we have
begun, that the closeing may be [up to] our expectation; and if we
keepe not this way, my weaknes may carry me on the ane rocke, and your
forwardnes, yow on the other: therefore I thinke some few dayes should
not wearie us, much lesse some few houres that is spent in prepairing
of ourselves to come heir, that so, according to my intentions,
according to my Masters directions, and that that I am confident is
all your resolutions, that so our Master may get satisfaction and we
may get our desires, which I conceave is nothing but to testifie our
loyaltie to our Gracious Soveraigne, securitie to our religion, and
establishment of the government of the Church. I believe these are all
our ends.
For the second parte of your speache, I shall desire that nothing I
have to say be taken hold upon; for all that I may bragg of my selfe
is, that I have gained so much as to be in some measure sensible of
my oune weaknes. Tho’ in some thinges I may fancie ane extemporarie
answer, yet, before I speake much, I shall desire to take it to my
consideration. Yow have beine pleased to make mention, in a very modest
way, of a Declaration, which, if I take it right, is a Booke wherein is
expresst the whole progress of our proceedings: and truelie, sir, the
way that yow have expresst it, no man can take exceptions against it.
Yet I shall recommend to yow, since it carries the title of my Masters
name, that whatever be your sense of the particular, and wherein
yow conceave his Majestie hath had misinformation, yow may walke so
circumspectlie as may testifie that yow tender his Majesties honour.
The Moderatour answered—It shall be our serious endeavour in all
things, and especiallie in that particular, to testifie that we tender
his Majesties honour as the apple of our eye.
The Commissioner said—Since I understand it concernes my Master so
neare, I desire, before yow bring it any more in publict, that some may
speake with me in privat.
Earle of Rothes said—There would be difference put betwixt that that
is reallie done by the King. Anent that which his Majestie himself
heard with his eares, and saw with his eyes, we thinke it becomes
us to speake verie tenderlie of it; but for that which hath come by
misinformation, we must cleare that to the full.
The Moderatour said—Please your Grace: that this bussines may be more
warilie and wiselie handlit, if the Assemblie thinke good, let some
be appoynted to revise the Booke, and they will distinguishe all, and
prescryve such a wise method as we cannot weill erre in.
The Commissioner said—Truelie for myselfe, I am willing to speake my
aune mynd freelie. For me, I thinke the desire is modest and fair, and
I shall be glad to heare anything further in that.
Mr Alexʳ Henrysone being desired to give his judgement, said—Truelie,
for the matter itselfe, it is verie necessar, and I trust it will give
no offence to the Kings Majestie that that Booke be looked on and
examined: ffor, in trueth, I thinke it were a dishonour to the Kings
Majestie to be King over such subjects, both in Church and State, as
are described in that Booke; and I believe it is not written by his
particular direction, nor is he acquainted with the particulars of it.
But these thinges must be left to the view of these that are appoynted
by the Assemblie, who, I trust, will make such particulars in it as may
tend both to Gods honour and the Kings, whereof we are very tender; and
I trust it shall appeare—yea, I am persuadit of it—that we are more
tender nor he that hes written the Booke.
To the which, the Assemblie did condiscend, and for that effect,
did appoynt to view the Booke: _Ministers_—Mʳs Robert Baillie,
Andro Ramsay, John Adamsone, Alexʳ Petrie, Mathew Brisbaine, John
Smyth, John Reid, Joⁿ Home, and Thomas Craufuird: _Nobles_—Rothes,
Cassiles, Lowdoun, Kirkcudbright, Burlie, Auldbar, and the Shireff of
Tiviotdaill: appointed to meet together and divide their aune taskes,
and be diligent students; further, whosoever had marked or noted any
thinge of the Booke, of their aune observatione, let them give it in to
these that are named.
The Toune of Edʳ presented a Supplication for the transportation of Mr
William Bennet from Monymeall to Edʳ; and, after the hearing of his
reasons, and his parochiners, the matter was put to voiceing; and the
said Mr Wᵐ Bennet ordained to stay at Monymeall, by the greatest parte
of the voices.
The Supplication of the Kirk of Dennune to the Assemblie, to grant a
warrand to build the same, and make it a distinct church, referred to
the Parliament.
The Supplication of the Laird of Halhill referred to the Provinciall of
Fyffe.
The Committie for Reportes to meit at 2 houres with the Commissioners
Grace at the Abbey.
The Assemblie to meit on Monday, at 8 houres.
Sess. 17.—Monday, _hora nona_. August 26.
After prayer, the Moderatour desired the Committie who were appointed
for revising the processes of such Ministers as were now supplicants to
give in their diligence.