Mr. VOSHININ. And she tried to do it, too.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mr. VOSHININ. What else can I tell you?
Well, I know that he--the way he talks, you know, he talks for and
against anything. You know, probably, about his famous lecture in the
Bohemian Club?
Mr. JENNER. I'll get that in a minute. Did you say that he was
argumentatively inclined so he would take the opposite side of any
argument?
Mr. VOSHININ. Yeah, he was usually taking the opposite side of whatever
anybody would say.
Mr. JENNER. Yes; and was he provocative in his argumentation?
Mr. VOSHININ. Yes; and I think he enjoyed it.
Mr. JENNER. He was extreme in his argumentation?
Mr. VOSHININ. Yeah; that was his famous lecture, of course, which was
some kind of a thing which was talked very much in Dallas about when he
made a lecture in the Bohemian Club.
The Bohemian Club is a group of about 30 people--Dallasites--who like
to argue. And he was the soul of the whole thing. And you know probably
who is in there. It's Sam Ballen, and L-e-v A-r-o-n-s-o-n [spelling],
Bill Hudson--I don't know, a lot of other people I have never met.
Mr. JENNER. Were you a member of the Bohemian Club?
Mr. VOSHININ. No; I was not. But I was invited by George to go to the
Bohemian Club. He will give a historical lecture.
Mr. JENNER. You were present on that occasion?
Mr. VOSHININ. I was present on that occasion.
And George discussed the question, you know, about the Vlassov army.
That was an army composed of Russian--Soviet Russian prisoners of war
who wanted to fight the Communists.
Mr. JENNER. What was the name of this army?
Mr. VOSHININ. Vlassov [spelling] V-l-a-s-s-o-v.
And he told the story of the Vlassov army but, in between, he injected
a lot of praise for such people like Himmler.
Mr. JENNER. Heinrich Himmler?
Mr. VOSHININ. Heinrich Himmler. He said, "After all, I came to the
conclusion that Himmler wasn't a bad boy at all."
You know, that's typically George.
Mr. JENNER. Do you think that this was sincere or do you think that he
was just attempting to provoke shock?
Mr. VOSHININ. I think he was attempting to provoke shock. Especially
there were, at least, three Jewish people there present--Sam Ballen and
Lev Aronson. I saw that Lev Aronson almost didn't--was, became red,
terribly red in his face. I was afraid that the poor guy, you know,
would have a stroke, You know. And George was looking into the face
of Aronson and, you know, continued praising the Nazis and look what
effect it has on Lev, who is a close friend of George. Of course, Lev
was terribly bitter--and I understand, after that, Lev and him went to
drink vodka the whole night. So, well--that's the type of person you
have.
Mr. JENNER. All right. Now, Mr. Voshinin, I think my questioning is
about concluded, but I do want to ask this general question in any
event. Is there anything you think factually that hasn't been brought
out that occurs to you that might be of assistance to the Commission in
its investigation?
Mr. VOSHININ. I think so.
Mr. JENNER. Would you state it, please?
Mr. VOSHININ. I think, first of all, there are persons which you did
not question and which knows De Mohrenschildt, I think, much better
than I do.
Mr. JENNER. Who is that?
Mr. VOSHININ. For example, Mr. Basil Zavoico.
Mr. JENNER. All right. Now give us that full name and spell it, please?
Mr. VOSHININ. [Spelling] B-a-s-i-l--that's the first name. Second is
Z-a-v-o-i-c-o--or k-o--I don't know. And he lived in Texas before and
he's living now in Green Farms, Conn., his house being called Cronomere.
Mr. JENNER. Spell that, please?
Mr. VOSHININ. [Spelling] C-r-o-n-o-m-e-r-e. And why I know Mr. Zavoico
because his wife lived in Yugoslavia before the war and me and my wife
we were close friends with her. And I think that Mr. Zavoico knows
George De Mohrenschildt many years before we did, and he once even
warned us against him.
Mr. JENNER. Warned you against De Mohrenschildt?
Mr. VOSHININ. Yes; he said, "Don't be too close with De Mohrenschildt,"
he said, "because, who knows what he is?" He says, "He sometimes talks
so much to the left, I'm not sure what he is."
And I think that he knows a lot about his life before the time we
came here. I think in that time there will be a lot of things to your
interest.
I don't know whether you questioned another person--it's Mr. Paul
Raigorodsky.
Mr. JENNER. You've mentioned him before--at the first of this
deposition?
Mr. VOSHININ. Yes; because Paul Raigorodsky is the first Russian
immigrant that--whoever came to Dallas. And he knows absolutely
everybody and he knows these people much longer time than we did.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mr. VOSHININ. And he knows George pretty closely. He also lived in the
Stoneleigh Hotel--and still living there.
Mr. JENNER. He is?
Mr. VOSHININ. Yeah. And he saw George every day where we saw him only
occasionally. A third person which I would suggest would be Mrs. Graff.
Mr. JENNER. [Spelling] G-r-a-f-f?
Mr. VOSHININ. Yes; Mrs. Theodore Graff--who worked for George as a
secretary mostly in the time that George was in Yugoslavia. He still
was, one part of the time, maintaining his office in the Republic
Bank, and Mrs. Graff worked there. And I think that Mrs. Graff knows
a lot about De Mohrenschildt's business. You see, my wife only worked
there 2 or 3 weeks so she doesn't know much. But I understand that Mrs.
Graff was there and she read a lot of his files, you know, sorting them
and having no other things to do. Especially, I think that George had
written his autobiography and she has seen it. I understand she has
seen it. It is some kind of a novel about himself which he wanted to
sell.
Then, I think you should also question a Mrs. Leslie and Miss Leslie
who know him. Mrs. Leslie and her stepdaughter, Miss Leslie.
Mr. JENNER. Are they residents of Dallas?
Mr. VOSHININ. They are residents of Dallas. Yeah. Mrs. Graff is now
living in Birmingham--you know, near Detroit.
Mr. JENNER. Oh, yes; I know. It's a suburb of Detroit. My daughter
attended school in Birmingham.
Mr. VOSHININ. Mrs. Graff is from Connecticut otherwise, but she was
here with her husband. He was working here in Republic Bank--and
that's where George's office was. She was at one time, you know, his
secretary--part-time, I think.
Mr. JENNER. Where do Mrs. Leslie and Miss Leslie live?
Mr. VOSHININ. Mrs. Leslie and Miss Leslie on Hanover.
Mr. JENNER. Hanover Street?
Mr. VOSHININ. Yes; Hanover Street.
Mr. JENNER. Here in Dallas?
Mr. VOSHININ. Yes; they are Russian.
Mr. JENNER. They are?
Mr. VOSHININ. But Miss Leslie's father was of British descent--but his
wife was Russian. And I think these people, they don't know much about
the De Mohrenschildts, but it's also from the same circle, you know,
and all that.
Mr. JENNER. They may know something about the Oswalds, too?
Mr. VOSHININ. I don't know. I don't know one way or the other.
Mr. JENNER. But they moved in this circle that you've described?
Mr. VOSHININ. They moved in that circle. Now, there is one thing which
always strikes me peculiar--I just talked last night with my wife about
that. The last 2 years, you know, the De Mohrenschildts were going to
Houston about every 4 weeks, and De Mohrenschildt was always saying, "I
have to go to Houston on business." And he would say--of course, you
don't ask people, you know. George didn't like to talk about what his
business is you know. Never told anybody about the details and nobody,
of course, asked him.
And he would say, "You know, I have to go--you know, all my business
goes through Houston." On the other hand, he would say he was, you
know, getting his jobs through a 5 percenter in Washington--and here
he was always going to Houston, like reporting to somebody; every 4 or
5 weeks, he was always going to Houston. And as far as me and my wife
heard about his business, he has no oil interest there or no business
there whatsoever. But as far as he was always interested only in
foreign assignments, why should he go to Houston? In other words, even
before, you know, the late President was killed, you know, we were once
talking this with my wife and wondering--what in the hell is he doing
in Houston?
You don't get foreign assignments through Houston--not that we know
about, but always he was going to Houston. And, I don't know, he never
mentioned to who he goes to Houston. But, it may be possible that I can
give you a name of a Russian professor in Houston who may know--may not
know but may know--who knows something because Professor Jitkoff----
Mr. JENNER. Spell it, please.
Mr. VOSHININ. [Spelling] J-i-t-k-o-f-f.
Mr. JENNER. And at what institution is he a professor?
Mr. VOSHININ. Rice Institute. The head of the department of the Rice
Institute.
Mr. JENNER. What department?
Mr. VOSHININ. The Russian Department. He can't stand George De
Mohrenschildt. And I know about De Mohrenschildt being in Houston--I
know, that, too, from Professor Jitkoff, which is a very, very
respectable family man, a very respectable anti-Communist. As
anti-Communist as could be, you know. And they told us several times
that George and Jeanne dropped in--which is not her name. Her name is
Eugenia. But, you know she's French. That's her baptized name, you see.
But they may know perhaps with whom they are associated in Houston.
There is a vague possibility of that--because that always sounded
peculiar to us, that Houston trips. Well, I think these people they
live on Locke Lane [spelling] L-o-c-k-e--in Houston.
Mr. JENNER. Well, we can reach him if he is a professor at Rice
Institute.
Mr. VOSHININ. Yeah. And they knew the De Mohrenschildts, of course,
before we ever came here.
Mr. JENNER. Anything else occur to you?
Mr. VOSHININ. Well, I also heard from her that she wanted to sell her
fashions to the Soviets. And that they went to New York to the Soviet
consulate and she was asking whether they can sell any fashions to
them--but, as I understand, they say they turned them down, they are
not interested. And that was just before their trip to Mexico City.
So, there is a slight possibility--but this is just speculation on my
part--that they probably tried the Soviet consulate in Mexico City also
to sell them some fashions--though I don't know, but this is possible,
you know. You know, most of the Russian immigrants, like us, you know,
wouldn't deal with the Soviets at all.
Mr. JENNER. You just don't want any part of them at all?
Mr. VOSHININ. We don't want any part of it. Our only dealings, you
know, is going there to buy dictionaries--you know, and things like
that. And that we would prefer not to do in the Soviet store in New
York, but rather through an immigrant store who buys it from them, you
know. But the De Mohrenschildts they wouldn't have any hesitation, you
know.
Mr. JENNER. Of going directly?
Mr. VOSHININ. Of going directly to deal with all of them, you know.
Mr. JENNER. I would like to ask you about the Houston trips. Did the
Houston trips take place during the years 1962 and 1963, up to the
time----
Mr. VOSHININ. Up to their departure. That's right.
Mr. JENNER. Up to the time the De Mohrenschildts left for Haiti?
Mr. VOSHININ. Uh-huh.
Mr. JENNER. And it is your distinct recollection, which we can confirm,
of course, or try to, that these periodic 4- to 5-week trips--a trip
every 4 or 5 weeks to Houston, took place in 1962 and 1963, to the time
they left, and even might have been prior to 1962?
Mr. VOSHININ. Well, yeah, they may; I don't know.
Mr. JENNER. When did you and your wife become quite conscious of the
fact that the De Mohrenschildts were making periodic trips to Houston?
Mr. VOSHININ. After Professor Jitkoff started complaining that the De
Mohrenschildts became a nuisance.
Mr. JENNER. All right. And that was when?
Mr. VOSHININ. And then we started recollecting about the De
Mohrenschildts telling, "Oh, we have to go on business to Houston." So,
that probably was late 1962.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mr. VOSHININ. You see, we go to Houston usually two times a year to
visit the Jitkoffs who are dear friends of ours.
Mr. JENNER. Do you recall whether or not these trips to Houston were
being made in September of 1963?
Mr. VOSHININ. In September of 1963, they were not here.
Mr. JENNER. So, they weren't here then?
Mr. VOSHININ. No; they left--I don't know which month they left for
Haiti--but I think they left way before September.
Mr. JENNER. All right. Do you know whether either of the De
Mohrenschildts had been in this country since they left Dallas in the
spring of 1963?
Mr. VOSHININ. No; I don't.
Mr. JENNER. You don't know whether they have or haven't been?
Mr. VOSHININ. I have no knowledge, no; no information about it. And
I have seen, you know, Christina and her husband. You know who they
are--Kirken.
Mr. JENNER. Spell it, please.
Mr. VOSHININ. Or whatever he calls himself--that's Mrs. De
Mohrenschildt's daughter and her husband. He calls himself Kirken.
K-i-r-k-e-n [phonetic]; Americans call him _Kirten_ [phonetic].
Mr. JENNER. [Spelling] K-a-r-t-o-n?
Mr. VOSHININ. [Spelling] K-i-r-k-e-n--or o-n--I don't know. They
dropped in when they came from Haiti.
Mr. JENNER. They were here recently?
Mr. VOSHININ. They were here recently. They dropped by our house and
they said they are on bad terms with the parents and he said they
left--they couldn't stand that.
Mr. JENNER. Did either of them say anything about whether or not George
De Mohrenschildt had made any statements to the effect that the FBI was
responsible for the assassination of President Kennedy?
Mr. VOSHININ. Oh, I heard that story; yes.
Mr. JENNER. From whom did you hear it? And give us your recollection of
it.
Mr. VOSHININ. I think that--uh--well, I heard it from my wife, to tell
the truth.
Mr. JENNER. Well, I'll talk to her about that.
Mr. VOSHININ. And she heard it, I don't know, from the Ballens,
maybe--or maybe from the children.
I don't know. I think that Kirken said that George is behaving
ridiculously and he said, "My father-in-law is behaving
ridiculously--he talks nonsense." And he says, "We just decided to
shorten our stay there because, otherwise, it would come to very
unpleasant scenes."
Mr. JENNER. He was of the opinion that these fulminations or statements
by George De Mohrenschildt were nonsense?
Mr. VOSHININ. Sure. George talks, you know, a lot of nonsense usually
about anything; but sometimes, you know, as Kirken says, he says he
became quite unpleasant with his nonsense and he says he couldn't stand
it. And Kirken and his wife are, I think, good Americans.
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mr. VOSHININ. They are okay.
Mr. JENNER. Now, is there anything else that occurs to you that you
would like to add in the record that you think might be helpful or
pertinent?