Mrs. VOSHININ. Nothing at all concerning that.
Mr. JENNER. Any conversation that came to your attention with respect
to Marina undertaking to have some command of the English language and
the reaction of Oswald to that?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; that was discussed by De Mohrenschildt. And George
thought that Marina wanted very much to study English and that Lee
prevented it; that he really was forbidding her to do that. And I
remember that Jeanne said something that he found some English book
that she had, was trying to learn English behind his back, and he was
very angry.
Incidentally, that was again one of those things that was pigeonholed
against Oswald, you know. Because the why--you know, the reason that he
gave. Why would he want that?
Because, really, there was one more point that was very strange
about Oswald--my feelings were. He sort of wanted to cut off the
communication of Marina--even with Russian people. Because he was so
unpleasant to Russians--to those folks around who tried to help her,
you know. He was quite rude, quite unpleasant--and, for some reason, we
got the impression that he has a reason not to want her to communicate
with people, to learn English, or to be together with Russians.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Now, I'd like to ask you a few questions about that. That's why I
asked you all the detail about your coming here, and how you became
acquainted. This was out of the ordinary, as far as the community in
which you moved is concerned?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; yes.
Mr. JENNER. I take it that that community was Bouhe, De
Mohrenschildts--and however you may have liked or disliked them in
their efforts, the attitude always was to get everybody acquainted with
everybody else as quickly as possible and to assist them? Now, this
would be especially true, for example, of Marina--that you'd like to
bring her into the circle?
Mrs. VOSHININ. I really can't say because we are not very close with
that circle, St. Nicholas circle, you know--St. Nicholas Parish circle.
Mr. JENNER. Well, I really am not thinking about that particular parish.
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yeah.
Mr. JENNER. I'm trying to put the background to what was bothering
you--that the normal thing that you expected--would expect of these
people----
Mrs. VOSHININ. Oh, yeah. I understand you now. Yeah. Quite.
Mr. JENNER. Was that he would bring her into acquaintance with those
with whom she would be able to converse, anyhow, in Russian?
Mrs. VOSHININ. That's right.
Mr. JENNER. And become acquainted, and then, through them, to learn or
otherwise to acquire facility with the English language----
Mrs. VOSHININ. Quite; or send her to school, at least, you know. That's
the natural thing to do for us when we come to this country--you know,
just do it as soon as possible. Right?
Mr. JENNER. Yes. And what did you understand with respect to her
education?
Mrs. VOSHININ. I understood that she was a pharmacist but she did not
have a higher education because she was too young in age and I believe
that George mentioned that she went 2 years to college. Now, that
wouldn't be college in Russia. It might be something----
Mr. JENNER. No. It would be something like junior college here?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Juniors or something like that. It would give her
technician status rather than a specialist in pharmacology.
Mr. JENNER. Did there come to your attention, in moving about your
friends and the people here, her general level of erudition and
education and intelligence in comparison with his?
Mrs. VOSHININ. No. Now, of course, what I'm saying is hearsay, right?
Mr. JENNER. I appreciate that.
Mrs. VOSHININ. But several people said differently. For example, I
heard from the ladies--from the Russian ladies of our parish that
she was--you could see that she comes from an intelligent family,
from a nice, you know, well-educated family. She has good manners and
everything and she was quite a clever girl. Now, then, that she was
sort of, I thought, more clever than he was. You know, some people who
are more developed----
Mr. JENNER. And more educated?
Mrs. VOSHININ. And more educated. Yes. While George insisted on just
the opposite. He was absolutely impressed with Oswald's mental powers,
for some reason. And he sort of looked down at Marina, you know, a
little bit.
So, I really don't know what to think.
Mr. JENNER. When was the last you heard from the De Mohrenschildts?
Mrs. VOSHININ. That was Christmas. We received a card from them.
Mr. JENNER. 1963?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes; it was in 1963.
Mr. JENNER. And what contacts, if any, did you have with them prior to
that time--that is, while they were still in Haiti?
Mrs. VOSHININ. With the De Mohrenschildts before Christmas 1963?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mrs. VOSHININ. Well, she wrote me two letters; I wrote her one letter.
Mr. JENNER. Have you had any contact with the children--either of Mrs.
De Mohrenschildt or of Mr. De Mohrenschildt--recently?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Well, we were visited by her daughter--by Chris--twice.
Once it was before Christmas and----
Mr. JENNER. But after November 22?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes. Right. It was about 3 weeks before Christmas, I
believe, or 2 weeks. And now they were recently here, just--they left
on March 15. They left Dallas.
Mr. JENNER. Did they say anything during the course of this social
visit, or visit here, about the De Mohrenschildts--George and Jeanne or
Jean or Eugene?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Well, Eugenia is right. You know they said so much,
I just hate to repeat it because I just don't know how much they
exaggerated. They were angry with both of them and I just don't believe
that----
Mr. JENNER. Well, I don't want you to repeat all the personal things.
I wanted your overall impression, which you have now volunteered, that
they were angry with George De Mohrenschildt and Mrs. De Mohrenschildt.
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Angry in what sense?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Uh--they said that they were not very hospitable for one
thing and, for another things, they--well, they said that George and
Jeanne took a turn for the worse politically.
Mr. JENNER. Well, now, would you develop that, please?
Mrs. VOSHININ. I hate to do that, because I just don't know how true it
all is.
Mr. JENNER. I understand that all you are doing is telling us what they
said. It is pure hearsay. I understand.
Mrs. VOSHININ. Pure hearsay of angry children.
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mrs. VOSHININ. That's what it is. Right?
Well, they said that the majority of their trouble with Jeanne and
George was because they were shooting their mouths off there--pro-left
and against United States--something to that effect; Chris said that
George was making the most--the funniest accusations--statements in
public, you know, like at cocktail parties, for example.
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mrs. VOSHININ. That he does not believe that Oswald murdered the
President; that he believes that rightwing or FBI, I am not sure--and
this was, of course, awfully shocking to children.
Mr. JENNER. He believed that the rightwing or the FBI what?
Mrs. VOSHININ. That's what the children said.
Mr. JENNER. What?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Murdered the President. That's what the children said
and I, frankly don't----
Mr. JENNER. You don't put much stock in it?
Mrs. VOSHININ. No; I don't.
Mr. JENNER. Did the children express any opinion as to whether these
were rantings or nonsense or----
Mrs. VOSHININ. Of course, they were outraged by the statement, like
everybody is. But what I want to say only that sometimes George gets so
bitter he doesn't know what he says; you know, just doesn't know what
he says. So, that's why I believe that you cannot approach George or
Jeanne to this extent with standard measures. You cannot measure them
by standard measures at all--what they say or what they do even. They
require different measures.
Mr. JENNER. Well, that opinion on your part is something that we
necessarily must weigh. We are trying to find out about these
personalities so we can judge these things in the light of what they
did, what they said, and whether these are fulminations and ravings
and rantings and nonsense. These things come to our attention, Mrs.
Voshinin, and we have to determine whether we will undertake to run
them down. The fact that they are rumors doesn't excuse us from giving
them consideration----
Mrs. VOSHININ. I realize that.
Mr. JENNER. As to whether there is any fact involved in this hearsay
and rumor----
Mrs. VOSHININ. I realize that.
Mr. JENNER. Even though you, as a dedicated and loyal American, you
would regard it as so ridiculous that it must be nonsense. That doesn't
necessarily mean that it is nonsense. And we have to exercise some
judgment.
Now, I think I have pretty well completed my questioning of you. I
would like to make this inquiry of you, though, if you will permit.
Is there anything that's occurred to you that you think might be
helpful to the Commission in its investigation? It might be a source
leading us to something that might be helpful--that you would like to
suggest to us? People who might know, incidents that occurred that I
haven't been able to stimulate your recollection on? Anything at all
that you think might be helpful in the investigation of the matter of
the assassination of the President, John F. Kennedy?
Mrs. VOSHININ. I can't think of anything. No.
Mr. JENNER. You don't think of anything?
Mrs. VOSHININ. No. I can't think of anything--people that might be
useful.
Mr. JENNER. Well, people or incidents or anything occurred during all
this period that you've been covering that you think might be helpful?
It might be somebody different from the De Mohrenschildts or it might
be an incident that occurred.
Mrs. VOSHININ. [Pausing before reply.] You know, I heard the rumors
that--like everybody else heard--which you have heard definitely--but I
don't know anybody whom to trace those rumors to you know. That's the
trouble. I don't know any particular person who could throw any light
on that thing.
Mr. JENNER. Yes; all right. We have occasionally been off the record
and had some discussion during the course of this examination, is there
anything that you reported to me or we discussed in the off-the-record
discussions that you believe is pertinent to the investigation or to
your testimony, which I failed to bring out?
Mrs. VOSHININ. No; I think that we covered the ground pretty thoroughly.
Mr. JENNER. Is there anything that took place in those discussions
that you would regard as, in any degree, inconsistent with any of your
testimony, which I, in turn, failed to bring out?
Mrs. VOSHININ. I don't quite understand that question.
Mr. JENNER. Well, what I'm getting at is this: Is there anything in the
discussions which we had off the record while you were in this room
that you think was inconsistent with your testimony as I brought it out
that ought to be on the record?
Mrs. VOSHININ. I don't remember very well what was off the record and
what was on. But I don't think so. I think everything was on.
Mr. JENNER. All right. You think I have brought out everything?
Mrs. VOSHININ. Everything; yes; I do.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Now, Mrs. Voshinin, you have the privilege and possibly I should also
say the right--I must say the right--to read over your deposition when
it has been transcribed by the reporter--which we hope will be next
week. Either I will be here or other representatives of the Commission
will be in Dallas for at least the next 2 weeks. You and your husband
call in and ask for Mr. Barefoot Sanders, the U.S. attorney, and he'll
know when your deposition is ready for you to read, if you wish to read
it.
Mrs. VOSHININ. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And then perhaps, in reading it, other things may occur to
you or the transcription may not be as you recall you said something,
and you will want to make some change. And you may have a copy of your
deposition by arrangement with this young lady, who will afford you
and your husband a copy of your respective depositions at whatever her
regular rates are.
Mrs. VOSHININ. All right.
Mr. JENNER. And you may purchase one. Your husband, I should say,
expressed a desire to have his and put it in the safety deposit box
[laughter].
Mrs. VOSHININ. A historical document!
Mr. JENNER. Mrs. Voshinin, thank you so much. I hope you didn't think I
was probing into your personal affairs or pressuring you too severely.
Mrs. VOSHININ. No; not at all.
Mr. DAVIS. And I enjoyed your accent immensely. It has brought back
very wonderful memories for me.
Mrs. VOSHININ. Thank you.