Mr. POWERS. Yes; I would say in our operations that they were in
the Philippines, as I recall, it was all simulated. When we were in
Japan, however, you would get the actual thing where you would have
the scramble aircraft on a hot bogey--I think is the term that they
used--and maybe it would be a Russian aircraft or Chinese aircraft
straying into this particular area, and they would scramble aircraft
after it and go up and take a look-see. And that is as far as I knew.
Mr. JENNER. And so while you were in Japan, you would be actually
looking for hot bogeys?
Mr. POWERS. Yes; I actually never spent that much time on the site. I
was playing football or----
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mr. POWERS. So as I recall, that is what we used to do.
Mr. JENNER. Did Oswald play football?
Mr. POWERS. No; he was not athletic in any form.
Mr. JENNER. He didn't engage in any athletics?
Mr. POWERS. Not while I was in contact with him; no.
Mr. JENNER. You mentioned when you boys were in Keesler you sometimes
went to the gym. Did he go to the gym and work out?
Mr. POWERS. I can't recall that he ever did; no, sir.
Mr. JENNER. You eventually rejoined the squadron or the group, did you,
in the Philippines?
Mr. POWERS. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And when was that?
Mr. POWERS. Oh, it was in the middle of January or February.
Mr. JENNER. Of 1958?
Mr. POWERS. Of 1958; yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And where in the Philippines?
Mr. POWERS. Cubi Point.
Mr. JENNER. C-u-b-i?
Mr. POWERS. Yes; Cubi Point.
Mr. JENNER. And what was the nature of that installation?
Mr. POWERS. This was just temporary quarters for the squadron. They
were caught in between. They were at an operation early in November and
then this--something----
Mr. JENNER. That would be November of 1957?
Mr. POWERS. Yes. Something flared up, I believe, in Indonesia,
somewhere in that area, and they held the squadron on the ship for a
particular period of time; and then there was another operation going
to start in February or sometime, or March, and they just----
Mr. JENNER. Of 1958?
Mr. POWERS. Yes, sir; instead of sending them back up to Japan, and
then have to come all the way back again, they just put them ashore
at Cubi Point. And they just set up a temporary base and continued
the operation out of there. There was actually no radar site setup at
that area, and we just got the gear and other material and trucks and
apparatus and things, and equipment was repaired and made ready for the
next operation.
Mr. JENNER. And during your stay at the Philippines, were you ever at
Subic Bay instead of Cubi Point?
Mr. POWERS. Cubi Point and Subic Bay are at close proximity. Cubi Point
is the landing actually, and Subic Bay is the harbor, and you can
almost call it one actual installation as far as I was concerned, but
they were designated--Cubi Point was the landing strip and Subic Bay
was the landing area.
Mr. JENNER. In some of Oswald's autobiographical material prepared
either then or later, he refers to the fact that it was at Subic Bay,
and that doesn't appear in the official orders, and we wondered where
he got that, and now you explained it for us.
Mr. POWERS. You traveled in between both, as far as they had the
swimming point there; I remember it was at Subic--isn't it S-u-b-i-c?
Mr. JENNER. I don't want to say it.
Mr. POWERS. I thought it was Subic; I'm probably wrong.
Mr. JENNER. I won't say that you're wrong. I think you're right. It's
Cubi Point and Subic Bay.
Mr. POWERS. Yes; there was actually one installation in my mind. They
were separated, but one was the harbor for the ships and the other was
for the aircraft.
Mr. JENNER. Now, was the same group that we--that you described earlier
that came from Jacksonville, Fla., still together at Cubi Point when
you rejoined the squadron?
Mr. POWERS. All but certain elements. I think the people in my
particular group that originated in Jacksonville, the only people
that were left was Schrand, Oswald, and myself. And the rest of them
were dispersed in Japan or the Far East area or in the United States
somewhere.
Mr. JENNER. And did an incident occur with respect to Mr. Schrand?
Mr. POWERS. Yes; he was--this happened after I arrived from the
Japanese mainland. He was on guard duty one evening and he was shot to
death. Now, I have never seen the official report or anything, but the
scuttlebutt at that time was that he was shot underneath the right arm
and it came up from underneath the left neck, and it was by a shotgun
which we were authorized to carry while we were on guard duty.
Mr. JENNER. Were these also sometimes called riot guns?
Mr. POWERS. Riot guns; yes. And that is the only thing
that--significance I attach to it other than he was either leaning
against the shotgun or was fooling with it, but he was shot anyway.
Mr. JENNER. Was there--you don't know what the official finding was
with respect to----
Mr. POWERS. No; I do not. I never had access to anything of this nature.
Mr. JENNER. Was there any scuttlebutt about it?
Mr. POWERS. No; other than that he was fooling with the weapon. Other
than that, we couldn't--as I recall, we could never realize how a guy
could have shot himself there other than he was leaning on it this way
[indicating], and "boom," it went off.
Mr. JENNER. As far as you boys were concerned at that time, was there
any scuttlebutt or speculation about anyone of you being involved in
that incident?
Mr. POWERS. Not to my recollection at all.
Mr. JENNER. When I say "you," that includes Oswald.
Mr. POWERS. Not that I know of; no, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Weren't there some instructions in connection with the use
of those riot guns when you were on guard duty that you would keep the
chamber free of slugs?
Mr. POWERS. I'm almost sure--again I can't say for sure, but it seems
to me that we were issued three shells, and--again, I'm not sure; it
seems to me that we were not supposed to put them in the weapon or
supposed to put them in the weapon and keep it out of the chamber; in
other words, you jacked it into the chamber if you needed it, but your
chamber itself should be kept free.
Mr. JENNER. To avoid accidents?
Mr. POWERS. Yes; I think this was the rule because you would have to
click them to get them out this way, and to avoid an incident such as
happened.
Mr. JENNER. Did you boys do any maintenance work in connection with
your radar scanning assignment?
Mr. POWERS. We were not trained to do it; no. They had the assigned
personnel do it.
Mr. JENNER. Do you recall anything in this connection with respect to
guard duty relating to some kind of a special airplane?
Mr. POWERS. Yes, we--this happened again, I think, after the rest of
the squadron left to go back to the Japanese mainland, and some of us
were assigned temporary duty in Cubi Point there. I believe there were
two of us, or three of us from the squadron.
Mr. JENNER. Who were they?
Mr. POWERS. Murphy; I believe, was one of them; and Private--Private,
First Class Murphy, and I don't recall the other individuals, who
the other individuals were, but anyway, we were assigned there, and
at this particular time, they were closely guarding a hangar. And as
it developed, this was, not knowing then what it was, it was a U-2
aircraft, but this was after the rest of the squadron left, which
Oswald was included in, for the mainland.
Mr. JENNER. Oswald was included in a group that had returned to the
mainland?
Mr. POWERS. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Was Oswald still at Cubi Point when Marine Schrand was shot?
Mr. POWERS. I believe he was; yes. The whole squadron was there then,
so he must have been there; yes.
Mr. JENNER. But Schrand's guard duty was not guard duty in connection
with these special airplanes of which you now speak?
Mr. POWERS. Well, no; I don't believe so. I can't say that for sure,
what it was regarding. But I don't think so. I think they were on the
site guarding the equipment that he had there, and it seems to me that
the Air Force moved in that particular hangar after the squadron went
up. I think this is correct.
Mr. JENNER. Was there a--did you have an assignment when you were
shipped to Corregidor?
Mr. POWERS. Yes; this assignment came between when I originally flew
in to Cubi Point and then the squadron went on another operation where
they were preparing--after they prepared their equipment there, and we
went down to Corregidor and we stayed there approximately a month or
6 weeks at the most, and then we came back and then the people, they
dropped off the four or five personnel that were on temporary duty, and
then the rest of the squadron continued on to the mainland.
Mr. JENNER. Was Oswald part of the group that was assigned to
Corregidor?
Mr. POWERS. Yes; the whole squadron was assigned to it.
Mr. JENNER. And what did you do at Corregidor?
Mr. POWERS. We participated in a--I think it was the 3d Marine Division
in the operation of military exercises.
Mr. JENNER. The same sort of thing that you had been doing back in Cubi
Point?
Mr. POWERS. Yes; with the exception now that we were plotting simulated
aircraft, scanning for it.
Mr. JENNER. Any incident occur during that period involving Oswald?
Mr. POWERS. No; nothing that I recall. Something sticks in my mind
about being on mess duty, but I can't recall what the incident was. I
have a picture of it in my mind.
Mr. JENNER. You did mention to the FBI when you were interviewed that
he was on mess duty, and I assume in the first place he was not on mess
duty all the time while he was in the Philippines, was he?
Mr. POWERS. No; you're assigned--privates and privates first class are
assigned this duty periodically. I think you're assigned one week out
of the year.
Mr. JENNER. This was not a mess duty assignment by way of punishment?
Mr. POWERS. I don't think so.
Mr. JENNER. How long were you at Corregidor, a couple of months?
Mr. POWERS. I want to say 4 to 6 weeks, but it could have been longer.
Mr. JENNER. What was your means of transportation to and from
Corregidor?
Mr. POWERS. LST.
Mr. JENNER. That's landing ship tank?
Mr. POWERS. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And when was this? Along about March of 1958, is that your
recollection?
Mr. POWERS. I think it was; it was in this late-February-early-March
period.
Mr. JENNER. When you returned to Cubi Point, you stayed there, but
Oswald and some of the other members of the squadron returned to Japan?
Mr. POWERS. Yes; I think they left out four, four of us stayed behind
at Cubi Point.
Mr. JENNER. Did you do--did you return then to Atsugi?
Mr. POWERS. Yes; I did.
Mr. JENNER. About when?
Mr. POWERS. I think it was in May.
Mr. JENNER. Of 1958?
Mr. POWERS. Yes, sir; late April or early May of 1958.
Mr. JENNER. When you reached Atsugi, was Oswald there?
Mr. POWERS. During this period of time, I think he was there, but it
was shortly thereafter or just before I got there he was--he shot
himself in the hand or in the leg or something. I don't remember which
part of the body it was.
Mr. JENNER. In the left arm or elbow.
Mr. POWERS. I'm not sure. I couldn't truthfully say what it was. He was
in a different part of the barracks and I think it was in the evening
that they hauled him out in an ambulance; yes, it must have been.
Mr. JENNER. What was your information and what is still your
information with respect to that incident? How it occurred, and whatnot.
Mr. POWERS. He was fooling with a weapon, whether he was cleaning it
or what he was doing with it; I don't know. You see, this is what I
recall: He was cleaning the weapon and it accidentally discharged,
and he was hauled away, and I think he was charged with carrying a
concealed weapon or something of this nature; I'm not sure.
They brought him up for court-martial. Whether he was actually
court-martialed then, I don't know.
Mr. JENNER. This was a privately owned weapon?
Mr. POWERS. I think so. All the less, it wasn't--I don't think it was a
Government issue; I think it was a small caliber. I think it was a .22.
Mr. JENNER. Yes; .22 pistol.
Mr. POWERS. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. What was the scuttlebutt about that particular incident, if
any?
Mr. POWERS. Nothing. It--just the name again stuck to--"Ozzie screwed
up again," or something. That was probably the general statement. I
think this was the feeling of the group at that time.
Mr. JENNER. Now, you used an expression "screwed up again." I'm going
to ask you now what was the reputation of Oswald and the attitude of
the squadron with respect to him----