The testimony of Hiram Conway was taken at 11:50 a.m., on April 1,
1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building,
Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Albert E. Jenner, Jr.,
assistant counsel of the President's Commission. Robert T. Davis,
assistant attorney general of Texas, was present.
Mr. JENNER. Would you mind rising and being sworn. Do you in the
testimony you are about to give swear to tell the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth?
Mr. CONWAY. I do.
Mr. JENNER. I am Albert E. Jenner, Jr. I am a member of the legal
staff of the Warren Commission about which you have heard. The Warren
Commission was authorized by a Senate joint resolution of the Congress
of the United States to be created to investigate the circumstances
leading to and surrounding the assassination of our late President
John Fitzgerald Kennedy. Pursuant to that legislation President Lyndon
B. Johnson by Executive Order 11130, November 1963, appointed the
Commission to investigate the assassination of President Kennedy. The
Chief Justice of the United States, the Honorable Earl Warren is the
Chairman of that Commission and the Commission has come to be known as
the Warren Commission.
The Commission is charged with sifting out the facts from fiction and
to inquire into many, many details, one of which deals with a man whose
name is Lee Harvey Oswald, during his lifetime. We understand you had
some contact with a man by that name?
Mr. CONWAY. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And we want to ask you a few questions about it.
Mr. CONWAY. I will be glad to answer them.
Mr. JENNER. All right. Mr. Conway, you are Hiram Conway and you are a
native Texan, are you?
Mr. CONWAY. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. What is your age?
Mr. CONWAY. I'm 57, will be 58 next month.
Mr. JENNER. I will be 57 next June. You reside in Fort Worth, Tex.?
Mr. CONWAY. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And your business, occupation, or profession is what?
Mr. CONWAY. Tool inspector for General Dynamics.
Mr. JENNER. The General Dynamics Corp.?
Mr. CONWAY. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Off the record.
(Discussion between Counsel Jenner and the witness Conway off the
record.)
Mr. JENNER. Back on the record. How long have you held that position as
tool inspector for GD?
Mr. CONWAY. I am sorry--will take me a moment to think.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mr. CONWAY. It was in 1945, August 25, when I went to work there--in
1945--August 23, 1945, and sometime in November, I believe the 16th, is
when I went into tool inspection. That's approximate.
Mr. JENNER. Do you have any connection with Leslie Welding Co., at any
time?
Mr. CONWAY. With what?
Mr. JENNER. With Leslie Welding Co.? [Spelling] L-e-s-l-i-e.
Mr. CONWAY. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Do you know a man by the name of Tommy Bargas?
Mr. CONWAY. I can't recall--I don't recall that name Tom Bargas--I
don't recall the name.
Mr. JENNER. Did you ever become acquainted with or have any contact
with a man known as Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. CONWAY. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Would you tell us the circumstances and what occurred?
Mr. CONWAY. Well, he was a child when he moved into our neighborhood.
Mr. JENNER. In Fort Worth?
Mr. CONWAY. Yes; where I live at the present time, and he moved in two
doors from me, 7408, I believe it was two houses.
Mr. JENNER. Ewing?
Mr. CONWAY. Ewing; yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And that is a single-family frame dwelling?
Mr. CONWAY. Yes, sir; two bedrooms and a single bath, kitchen and
dining room together.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mr. CONWAY. I'm not absolutely sure when they moved in there.
Mr. JENNER. You say "they," who is that?
Mr. CONWAY. His mother and his older brother, who is a half brother.
Mr. JENNER. John Pic?
Mr. CONWAY. Yes; his oldest brother, and then Robert Oswald.
Mr. JENNER. So, there were three boys and a mother?
Mr. CONWAY. That's right.
Mr. JENNER. Was there a husband or father?
Mr. CONWAY. No; there was no man about the house. John was the oldest
one on the place.
Mr. JENNER. And about how old was he at that time?
Mr. CONWAY. I believe he was around 8 or 9.
Mr. JENNER. Let's see, let's see--what year was that?
Mr. CONWAY. Oh, it must have been--I'm not quite sure, but I moved
there in 1948, and I'm not sure--I moved there in September or October.
Mr. JENNER. October of 1948?
Mr. CONWAY. And I'm not sure whether they moved there before the end of
the year or not, but it was just shortly after I moved there.
Mr. JENNER. He was born October 18, 1939, so in 1948, at the time you
are talking about, he would be approximately 9 years old.
Mr. CONWAY. Approximately--yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. You had children at that time?
Mr. CONWAY. I had one daughter.
Mr. JENNER. Age?
Mr. CONWAY. Well, at that time, I'm almost ashamed--I don't know
exactly when my daughter was born--1933, I believe, so that would be 15.
Mr. JENNER. About 15 years old?
Mr. CONWAY. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. So your daughter would have had little or no contact with
Lee who was then 9 years old?
Mr. CONWAY. No; very little. She was associated quite a bit with John.
She and John were approximately the same age. I believe John might have
been slightly older than her, maybe 1-1/2 or 2 years, I'm not quite
sure.
Mr. JENNER. Your daughter is now married?
Mr. CONWAY. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. What is her married name?
Mr. CONWAY. Mrs. J. C. Bell (Spelling) B-e-l-l.
Mr. JENNER. Where does she live?
Mr. CONWAY. She lives on Santa Fe, I think, it's 2904.
Mr. JENNER. Do you recall her telephone number?
Mr. CONWAY. CI 4-2394, it would be--Circle. I'm almost sure that's
right.
Mr. JENNER. Is Mrs. Conway living?
Mr. CONWAY. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. How long did the family live there?
Mr. CONWAY. How long did they live there?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mr. CONWAY. I think almost 4 years--it was in the vicinity of 4 years.
It might have been just a little over or a little under, but it was
approximately 4 years.
Mr. JENNER. And did these boys come to your attention?
Mr. CONWAY. Oh, yes; John was a real nice kid and he was a friend of
mine, you know, a young friend. I taught him to play chess.
Mr. JENNER. You did?
Mr. CONWAY. Yes; I did, and he made an excellent player, I understand.
I think he's runner-up in the championship at Lackland Air Force Base.
Mr. JENNER. Is that so?
Mr. CONWAY. I think so--John is a fine fellow.
Mr. JENNER. And because of your relationship especially with John Pic,
you came to know the other boys, too?
Mr. CONWAY. Yes, sir; fairly well.
Mr. JENNER. In and around the neighborhood?
Mr. CONWAY. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. But having in mind Lee Oswald, at the age of 9, and by the
time he left, he was 13, you had less contact with him?
Mr. CONWAY. I had very little contact with him, just to see him in the
neighborhood was all.
Mr. JENNER. Did that contact in the neighborhood enable you to form a
judgment as to his general disposition?
Mr. CONWAY. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Would you describe that and tell us something--some
incidents about it?
Mr. CONWAY. Well, he was quick to anger and he was, I would say, a vile
nature--he was mean when he was angry, just ornery--he was vicious
almost, you might say, is the best word I can describe it.
Mr. JENNER. Did it come to your particular attention as contrasted with
his two brothers, Robert and John?
Mr. CONWAY. Yes; John was a very genuine character, a fine boy.
Mr. JENNER. What about Robert?
Mr. CONWAY. Robert was much more spunky than John, but Robert didn't
very often get into much trouble.
Mr. JENNER. Nothing like Lee?
Mr. CONWAY. No; he didn't walk up and down the street looking for
children to throw stones at, like Lee did. He was a bad kid.
Mr. JENNER. Did he get into kid fights and encounters with children in
the neighborhood?
Mr. CONWAY. Yes; he would become angry with them but as far as actually
seeing him fight--the children didn't fight with him much, they got out
of his way. They would hide or move on and it would be pretty hard to
catch him in a fight because it would be pretty hard for him to have
caught one of them.
Mr. JENNER. Was this a persistent sort of thing over a period of 4
years or were they isolated incidences?
Mr. CONWAY. Naturally, it's hard to say, but I would see those things
not too often, but you know that was just the picture it built in my
mind. I didn't see him very often--I have seen him try to fight with
his half brother and his brother and he would tear into them and they
would hold him off to try to keep him out of trouble and he would try
to kick their shins, just all sort of things like that--I don't--it's
been a long time.
Mr. JENNER. Was he left alone a good deal?
Mr. CONWAY. Yes, sir; quite a lot.
Mr. JENNER. Describe that circumstance, will you please?
Mr. CONWAY. That would be hard for me to describe to you too accurately
because no more than I know about it, but I do know he would get
home--I would hear the boys, one of them say to the other one, "Where
is Lee," and they would say, "He's in the house," or something like
that and that's about all I would know. But I would see him in and out.
He had a dog that he was very fond of, Lee did, and I would see him
play with the dog around the place and I would have reason for accurate
knowledge that there was no one there but him, but so far as just being
absolutely sure--I'm not.
Mr. JENNER. Do you have a recollection now whether Mrs. Oswald, his
mother, worked?
Mr. CONWAY. Yes, sir; she did work and I have heard my wife speak of
where she worked, but I don't recall. She worked days and I usually
worked nights--I usually worked nights.
Mr. JENNER. So you were around the neighborhood, was that true, of this
4-year period as a rule?
Mr. CONWAY. I believe it was. I'm not absolutely sure but I believe it
was.
Mr. JENNER. At least off and on during the 4-year period you did work
nights?
Mr. CONWAY. I'm almost sure that I did.
Mr. JENNER. So that you would get to see these boys in the daytime and
after school at least?
Mr. CONWAY. It's funny, but I'm not so--not absolutely sure what year I
started working nights. I know I worked nights before I moved to Fort
Worth and I moved to Fort Worth from Grand Prairie in 1948, and that
was the--was before the Oswalds came, and I know I worked nights before
they moved into that neighborhood and I took a preference to the second
shift, so I did work the second shift at all times when it was possible
since that time. It's more than likely that I was on the second shift
almost all times they were there.
Mr. JENNER. Did a time come when the family moved?
Mr. CONWAY. Yes; and I don't remember exactly what year it was but it
must have been in 1951 or 1952.
Mr. JENNER. If they came in 1948, and they were there 4 years, that
would be 1952.
Mr. CONWAY. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Now; had either of the older boys already left before the
family moved?