commanded the Fly-men to ask some of the Spirits, Whether they would be
pleased to give her a Visit? This they did; and after the Spirits had
presented themselves to the Empress, (in what shapes and forms, I cannot
exactly tell) after some few Complements that passed between them, the
Empress told the Spirits that she questioned not, but they did know how
she was a stranger in that World, and by what miraculous means she was
arrived there; and since she had a great desire to know the condition of
the World she came from, her request to the Spirits was, To give her
some Information thereof, especially of those parts of the World where
she was born, bred, and educated; as also of her particular friends and
acquaintance: all which, the Spirits did according to her desire. At
last, after a great many conferences and particular intelligences, which
the Spirits gave the Empress, to her great satisfaction and content; she
enquired after the most famous Students, Writers, and Experimental
Philosophers in that World, which they gave her full relation of:
amongst the rest she enquired, Whether there were none that had found
out yet the Jews Cabbala? Several have endeavoured it, answered the
Spirits, but those that came nearest (although themselves denied it)
were one Dr. Dee, and one Edward Kelly, the one representing Moses, and
the other Aaron; for Kelly was to Dr. Dee, as Aaron to Moses; but yet
they proved at last but meer Cheats; and were described by one of their
own Country-men, a famous Poet, named Ben. Johnson, in a Play call'd, The
Alchymist, where he expressed Kelly by Capt. Face, and Dee by Dr.
Subtle, and their two Wives by Doll Common, and the Widow; by the
Spaniard the Play, he meant the Spanish Ambassador, and by Sir Epicure
Mammon, a Polish Lord. The Empress remembred that she had seen the Play,
and asked the Spirits, whom he meant by the name of Ananias? some
Zealous Brethren, answered they, in Holland, Germany, and several other
places. Then she asked them, Who was meant by the Druggist? Truly,
answered the Spirits, We have forgot, it being so long since it was made
and acted. What, replied the Empress, Can Spirits forget? Yes, said the
Spirits; for what is past, is onely kept in memory, if it be not
recorded. I did believe, said the Empress, That Spirits had no need of
Memory, or Remembrance, and could not be subject to Forgetfulness. How
can we, answered they, give an account of things present, if we had no
Memory, but especially of things past, unrecorded, if we had no
Remembrance? said the Empress, By present Knowledg and Understanding.
The Spirits answered, That present Knowledg and Understanding was of
actions or things present, not of past. But, said the Empress, you know
what is to come, without Memory or Remembrance; and therefore you may
know what is past without memory and remembrance. They answered, That
their foreknowledg was onely a prudent and subtile Observation made by
comparing of things or actions past, with those that are present; and
that Remembrance was nothing else but a Repetition of things or actions
past.
Then the Empress asked the Spirits, Whether there was a threefold
Cabbala? They answered, Dee and Kelly made but a two-fold Cabbala, to
wit, of the Old and New Testament, but others might not onely make two
or three, but threescore Cabbala's, if they pleased. The Empress asked,
Whether it was a Traditional, or meerly a Scriptural, or whether it was
a Literal, Philosophical, or Moral Cabbala some, answered they, did
believe it meerly Traditional, others Scriptural, some Literal, and some
Metaphorical: but the truth is, said they, 'twas partly one, and partly
the other; as partly a Traditional, partly a Scriptural, partly Literal,
partly Metaphorical. The Empress asked further, Whether the Cabbala was
a work onely of Natural Reason, or of Divine Inspiration? Many, said the
Spirits, that write Cabbala's pretend to Divine Inspirations; but
whether it be so, or not, it does not belong to us to judg; onely this
we must needs confess, that it is a work which requires a good wit, and
a strong Faith, but not Natural Reason; for though Natural Reason is
most perswasive, yet Faith is the chief that is required in Cabbalists.
But, said the Empress, Is there not Divine Reason, as well as there is
Natural? No, answered they: for there is but a Divine Faith, and as for
Reason it is onely Natural; but you Mortals are so puzled about this
Divine Faith, and Natural Reason, that you do not know well how to
distinguish them, but confound them both, which is the cause you have so
many divine Philosophers who make a Gallimafry both of Reason and Faith.
Then she asked, Whether pure Natural Philosophers were Cabbalists? They
answered, No; but onely your Mystical or Divine Philosophers, such as
study beyond Sense and Reason. she enquired further, Whether there was
any Cabbala in God, or whether God was full of Idea's? They answered,
There could be nothing in God, nor could God be full of any thing,
either forms or figures, but of himself; for God is the Perfection of
all things, and an Unexpressible Being, beyond the conception of any
Creature, either Natural or Supernatural. Then I pray inform me, said
the Empress, Whether the Jews Cabbala or any other, consist in Numbers?
The Spirits answered, No: for Numbers are odd, and different, and would
make a disagreement in the Cabbala. But, said she again, Is it a sin
then not to know or understand the Cabbala? God is so merciful, answered
they, and so just, that he will never damn the ignorant, and save onely
those that pretend to know him and his secret Counsels by their
Cabbala's; but he loves those that adore and worship him with fear and
reverence, and with a pure heart. she asked further, which of these two
Cabbala's was most approved, the Natural, or Theological? The
Theological, answered they, is mystical, and belongs onely to Faith; but
the Natural belongs to Reason. Then she asked them, Whether Divine Faith
was made out of Reason? No answered they, for Faith proceeds onely from
a Divine saving Grace, which is a peculiar Gift of God. How comes it
then, replied she, that Men, even those that are of several opinions,
have Faith more or less? A Natural Belief, answered they, is not a
Divine Faith. But, proceeded the Empress, How are you sure that God
cannot be known? The several Opinions you Mortals have of God, answered
they, are sufficient witnesses thereof. Well then, replied the Empress,
leaving this inquisitive knowledg of God, I pray inform me, whether you
Spirits give motion to Natural Bodies? No, answered they; but, on the
contrary, Natural material bodies give Spirits motion; for we Spirits,
being incorporeal, have no motion but from our Corporeal Vehicles, so
that we move by the help of our Bodies, and not the Bodies by our help;
for pure Spirits are immovable. If this be so, replied the Empress, How
comes it then that you can move so suddenly at a vast distance? They
answered, That some sorts of matter were more pure, rare, and
consequently more light and agil then others; and this was the reason
for their quick and sudden motions. Then the Empress asked them, Whether
they could speak without a body, or bodily organs? No, said they; nor
could we have any bodily sense, but onely knowledg. she asked, Whether
they could have Knowledg without Body? Not a Natural, answered they, but
a Supernatural Knowledg, which is a far better Knowledg then a Natural.
Then she asked them, Whether they had a General or Universal Knowledg?
They answered, Single or particular created Spirits, have not; for not
any Creature, but God Himself, can have an absolute and perfect knowledg
of all things. The Empress asked them further, Whether Spirits had
inward and outward parts? No, answered they; for parts onely belong to
bodies, not to Spirits. Again, she asked them, Whether their Vehicles
were living Bodies? They are Self-moving Bodies, answered they, and
therefore they must needs be living; for nothing can move it self,
without it hath life. Then, said she, it must necessarily follow, that
this living, Self-moving Body gives motion to the Spirit, and not the
Spirit motion to the Body, as its Vehicle. You say very true, answered
they, and we told you this before. Then the Empress asked them, Of what
forms of Matter those Vehicles were? They said they were of several
different forms; some gross and dense, and others more pure, rare, and
subtil. If you be not Material, said the Empress, how can you be
Generators of all Creatures? We are no more, answered they, the
Generators of material Creatures, then they are the Generators of us
Spirits. Then she asked, Whether they did leave their Vehicles? No,
answered they; for we being incorporeal, cannot leave or quit them: but
our Vehicles do change into several forms and figures, according as
occasion requires. Then the Empress desired the Spirits to tell her,
Whether Man was a little World? They answered, That if a Fly or Worm was
a little World, then Man was so too. she asked again, Whether our
Fore-fathers had been as wise, as Men were at present, and had
understood sense and reason, as well as they did now? They answered,
That in former Ages they had been as wise as they are in this present,
nay, wiser; for, said they, many in this age do think their Fore-fathers
have been Fools, by which they prove themselves to be such. The Empress
asked further, Whether there was any Plastick power in Nature? Truly,
said the Spirits, Plastick power is a hard word, & signifies no more
then the power of the corporeal, figurative motions of Nature. After
this, the Empress desired the Spirits to inform her where the Paradise
was, Whether it was in the midst of the World as a Centre of pleasure?
or, Whether it was the whole World; or a peculiar World by it self, as a
World of Life, and not of Matter; or whether it was mixt, as a world of
living animal Creatures? They answered, That Paradise was not in the
world she came from, but in that world she lived in at present; and that
it was the very same place where she kept her Court, and where her
Palace stood, in the midst of the Imperial City. The Empress asked
further, Whether in the beginning and Creation of the World, all Beasts
could speak? They answered, That no Beasts could speak, but onely those
sorts of Creatures which were Fish-men, Bear-men, Worm-men, and the
like, which could speak in the first Age, as well as they do now. she
asked again, Whether they were none of those Spirits that frighted Adam
out of the Paradise, at least caused him not to return thither again?
They answered they were not. Then she desired to be informed, whither
Adam fled when he was driven out of the Paradise? Out of this World,
said they, you are now Empress of, into the World you came from. If this
be so, replied the Empress, then surely those Cabbalists are much out of
their story, who believe the Paradise to be a world of Life onely,
without Matter, for this world, though it be most pleasant and fruitful,
yet it is not a world of meer Immaterial life, but a world of living,
Material Creatures. Without question, they are, answered the Spirits;
for not all Cabbala's are true. Then the Empress asked, That since it is
mentioned in the story of the Creation of the World, that Eve was
tempted by the Serpent, Whether the Devil was within the Serpent, or,
Whether the Serpent tempted her without the Devil? They answered, That
the Devil was within the Serpent. But how came it then, replied she,
that the Serpent was cursed? They answered, because the Devil was in
him; for are not those men in danger of damnation which have the Devil
within them, who perswades them to believe and act wickedly? The Empress
asked further, Whether Light and the Heavens were all one? They
answered, That that Region which contains the Lucid natural Orbs, was by
Mortals named Heaven; but the Beatifical Heaven, which is the Habitation
of the Blessed Angels and Souls, was so far beyond it, that it could not
be compared to any Natural Creature. Then the Empress asked them,
Whether all Matter was fluid at first? They answered, That Matter was
always as it is, and that some parts of Matter were rare, some dense,
some fluid, some solid, &c. Neither was God bound to make all Matter
fluid at first. she asked further, Whether Matter was immovable in it
self? We have answered you before, said they, That there is no motion
but in Matter; and were it not for the motion of Matter, we Spirits,
could not move, nor give you any answer to your several questions. After
this, the Empress asked the Spirits, Whether the Universe was made
within the space of six days, or, Whether by those six days, were meant
so many Decrees or Commands of God? They answered her, That the World
was made by the All-powerful Decree and Command of God; but whether
there were six Decrees or Commands, or fewer, or more, no Creature was
able to tell.