SOCRATES: And 'appears to him' means the same as 'he perceives.'

THEAETETUS: True.

SOCRATES: Then appearing and perceiving coincide in the case of hot and

cold, and in similar instances; for things appear, or may be supposed to

be, to each one such as he perceives them?

THEAETETUS: Yes.

SOCRATES: Then perception is always of existence, and being the same as

knowledge is unerring?

THEAETETUS: Clearly.

SOCRATES: In the name of the Graces, what an almighty wise man

Protagoras must have been! He spoke these things in a parable to the

common herd, like you and me, but told the truth, 'his Truth,' (In

allusion to a book of Protagoras' which bore this title.) in secret to

his own disciples.

THEAETETUS: What do you mean, Socrates?

SOCRATES: I am about to speak of a high argument, in which all things

are said to be relative; you cannot rightly call anything by any name,

such as great or small, heavy or light, for the great will be small and

the heavy light--there is no single thing or quality, but out of motion

and change and admixture all things are becoming relatively to one

another, which 'becoming' is by us incorrectly called being, but is

really becoming, for nothing ever is, but all things are becoming.

Summon all philosophers--Protagoras, Heracleitus, Empedocles, and the

rest of them, one after another, and with the exception of Parmenides

they will agree with you in this. Summon the great masters of either

kind of poetry--Epicharmus, the prince of Comedy, and Homer of Tragedy;

when the latter sings of

'Ocean whence sprang the gods, and mother Tethys,'

does he not mean that all things are the offspring, of flux and motion?

THEAETETUS: I think so.

SOCRATES: And who could take up arms against such a great army having

Homer for its general, and not appear ridiculous? (Compare Cratylus.)

THEAETETUS: Who indeed, Socrates?

SOCRATES: Yes, Theaetetus; and there are plenty of other proofs

which will show that motion is the source of what is called being and

becoming, and inactivity of not-being and destruction; for fire and

warmth, which are supposed to be the parent and guardian of all other

things, are born of movement and of friction, which is a kind of

motion;--is not this the origin of fire?

THEAETETUS: It is.

SOCRATES: And the race of animals is generated in the same way?

THEAETETUS: Certainly.

SOCRATES: And is not the bodily habit spoiled by rest and idleness, but

preserved for a long time by motion and exercise?

THEAETETUS: True.

SOCRATES: And what of the mental habit? Is not the soul informed, and

improved, and preserved by study and attention, which are motions; but

when at rest, which in the soul only means want of attention and study,

is uninformed, and speedily forgets whatever she has learned?

THEAETETUS: True.

SOCRATES: Then motion is a good, and rest an evil, to the soul as well

as to the body?

THEAETETUS: Clearly.

SOCRATES: I may add, that breathless calm, stillness and the like waste

and impair, while wind and storm preserve; and the palmary argument of

all, which I strongly urge, is the golden chain in Homer, by which

he means the sun, thereby indicating that so long as the sun and the

heavens go round in their orbits, all things human and divine are and

are preserved, but if they were chained up and their motions ceased,

then all things would be destroyed, and, as the saying is, turned upside

down.

THEAETETUS: I believe, Socrates, that you have truly explained his

meaning.

SOCRATES: Then now apply his doctrine to perception, my good friend, and

first of all to vision; that which you call white colour is not in your

eyes, and is not a distinct thing which exists out of them. And you must

not assign any place to it: for if it had position it would be, and be

at rest, and there would be no process of becoming.

THEAETETUS: Then what is colour?

SOCRATES: Let us carry the principle which has just been affirmed, that

nothing is self-existent, and then we shall see that white, black,

and every other colour, arises out of the eye meeting the appropriate

motion, and that what we call a colour is in each case neither the

active nor the passive element, but something which passes between

them, and is peculiar to each percipient; are you quite certain that the

several colours appear to a dog or to any animal whatever as they appear

to you?

THEAETETUS: Far from it.

SOCRATES: Or that anything appears the same to you as to another man?

Are you so profoundly convinced of this? Rather would it not be true

that it never appears exactly the same to you, because you are never

exactly the same?

THEAETETUS: The latter.

SOCRATES: And if that with which I compare myself in size, or which

I apprehend by touch, were great or white or hot, it could not become

different by mere contact with another unless it actually changed; nor

again, if the comparing or apprehending subject were great or white

or hot, could this, when unchanged from within, become changed by any

approximation or affection of any other thing. The fact is that in

our ordinary way of speaking we allow ourselves to be driven into most

ridiculous and wonderful contradictions, as Protagoras and all who take

his line of argument would remark.

THEAETETUS: How? and of what sort do you mean?

SOCRATES: A little instance will sufficiently explain my meaning: Here

are six dice, which are more by a half when compared with four, and

fewer by a half than twelve--they are more and also fewer. How can you

or any one maintain the contrary?

THEAETETUS: Very true.

SOCRATES: Well, then, suppose that Protagoras or some one asks whether

anything can become greater or more if not by increasing, how would you

answer him, Theaetetus?

THEAETETUS: I should say 'No,' Socrates, if I were to speak my mind

in reference to this last question, and if I were not afraid of

contradicting my former answer.

SOCRATES: Capital! excellent! spoken like an oracle, my boy! And if you

reply 'Yes,' there will be a case for Euripides; for our tongue will be

unconvinced, but not our mind. (In allusion to the well-known line of

Euripides, Hippol.: e gloss omomoch e de thren anomotos.)

THEAETETUS: Very true.

SOCRATES: The thoroughbred Sophists, who know all that can be known

about the mind, and argue only out of the superfluity of their wits,

would have had a regular sparring-match over this, and would have

knocked their arguments together finely. But you and I, who have no

professional aims, only desire to see what is the mutual relation of

these principles,--whether they are consistent with each or not.

THEAETETUS: Yes, that would be my desire.

SOCRATES: And mine too. But since this is our feeling, and there is

plenty of time, why should we not calmly and patiently review our own

thoughts, and thoroughly examine and see what these appearances in

us really are? If I am not mistaken, they will be described by us as

follows:--first, that nothing can become greater or less, either in

number or magnitude, while remaining equal to itself--you would agree?

THEAETETUS: Yes.

SOCRATES: Secondly, that without addition or subtraction there is no

increase or diminution of anything, but only equality.

THEAETETUS: Quite true.

SOCRATES: Thirdly, that what was not before cannot be afterwards,

without becoming and having become.

THEAETETUS: Yes, truly.

SOCRATES: These three axioms, if I am not mistaken, are fighting with

one another in our minds in the case of the dice, or, again, in such a

case as this--if I were to say that I, who am of a certain height and

taller than you, may within a year, without gaining or losing in height,

be not so tall--not that I should have lost, but that you would have

increased. In such a case, I am afterwards what I once was not, and yet

I have not become; for I could not have become without becoming, neither

could I have become less without losing somewhat of my height; and I

could give you ten thousand examples of similar contradictions, if

we admit them at all. I believe that you follow me, Theaetetus; for I

suspect that you have thought of these questions before now.

THEAETETUS: Yes, Socrates, and I am amazed when I think of them; by the

Gods I am! and I want to know what on earth they mean; and there are

times when my head quite swims with the contemplation of them.

SOCRATES: I see, my dear Theaetetus, that Theodorus had a true insight

into your nature when he said that you were a philosopher, for wonder

is the feeling of a philosopher, and philosophy begins in wonder. He was

not a bad genealogist who said that Iris (the messenger of heaven)

is the child of Thaumas (wonder). But do you begin to see what is the

explanation of this perplexity on the hypothesis which we attribute to

Protagoras?

THEAETETUS: Not as yet.

SOCRATES: Then you will be obliged to me if I help you to unearth the

hidden 'truth' of a famous man or school.

THEAETETUS: To be sure, I shall be very much obliged.

SOCRATES: Take a look round, then, and see that none of the uninitiated

are listening. Now by the uninitiated I mean the people who believe in

nothing but what they can grasp in their hands, and who will not allow

that action or generation or anything invisible can have real existence.

THEAETETUS: Yes, indeed, Socrates, they are very hard and impenetrable

mortals.

SOCRATES: Yes, my boy, outer barbarians. Far more ingenious are the

brethren whose mysteries I am about to reveal to you. Their first

principle is, that all is motion, and upon this all the affections of

which we were just now speaking are supposed to depend: there is nothing

but motion, which has two forms, one active and the other passive, both

in endless number; and out of the union and friction of them there is

generated a progeny endless in number, having two forms, sense and the

object of sense, which are ever breaking forth and coming to the birth

at the same moment. The senses are variously named hearing, seeing,

smelling; there is the sense of heat, cold, pleasure, pain, desire,

fear, and many more which have names, as well as innumerable others

which are without them; each has its kindred object,--each variety

of colour has a corresponding variety of sight, and so with sound and

hearing, and with the rest of the senses and the objects akin to them.

Do you see, Theaetetus, the bearings of this tale on the preceding

argument?

THEAETETUS: Indeed I do not.

SOCRATES: Then attend, and I will try to finish the story. The purport

is that all these things are in motion, as I was saying, and that this

motion is of two kinds, a slower and a quicker; and the slower elements

have their motions in the same place and with reference to things near

them, and so they beget; but what is begotten is swifter, for it

is carried to fro, and moves from place to place. Apply this to

sense:--When the eye and the appropriate object meet together and give

birth to whiteness and the sensation connatural with it, which could not

have been given by either of them going elsewhere, then, while the

sight is flowing from the eye, whiteness proceeds from the object which

combines in producing the colour; and so the eye is fulfilled with

sight, and really sees, and becomes, not sight, but a seeing eye;

and the object which combined to form the colour is fulfilled with

whiteness, and becomes not whiteness but a white thing, whether wood or

stone or whatever the object may be which happens to be coloured white.

And this is true of all sensible objects, hard, warm, and the like,

which are similarly to be regarded, as I was saying before, not as

having any absolute existence, but as being all of them of whatever kind

generated by motion in their intercourse with one another; for of the

agent and patient, as existing in separation, no trustworthy conception,

as they say, can be formed, for the agent has no existence until united

with the patient, and the patient has no existence until united with

the agent; and that which by uniting with something becomes an agent, by

meeting with some other thing is converted into a patient. And from

all these considerations, as I said at first, there arises a general

reflection, that there is no one self-existent thing, but everything

is becoming and in relation; and being must be altogether abolished,

although from habit and ignorance we are compelled even in this

discussion to retain the use of the term. But great philosophers tell us

that we are not to allow either the word 'something,' or 'belonging to

something,' or 'to me,' or 'this,' or 'that,' or any other detaining

name to be used, in the language of nature all things are being created

and destroyed, coming into being and passing into new forms; nor can any

name fix or detain them; he who attempts to fix them is easily refuted.

And this should be the way of speaking, not only of particulars but

of aggregates; such aggregates as are expressed in the word 'man,' or

'stone,' or any name of an animal or of a class. O Theaetetus, are not

these speculations sweet as honey? And do you not like the taste of them

in the mouth?

THEAETETUS: I do not know what to say, Socrates; for, indeed, I cannot

make out whether you are giving your own opinion or only wanting to draw

me out.

SOCRATES: You forget, my friend, that I neither know, nor profess to

know, anything of these matters; you are the person who is in labour, I

am the barren midwife; and this is why I soothe you, and offer you one

good thing after another, that you may taste them. And I hope that I may

at last help to bring your own opinion into the light of day: when this

has been accomplished, then we will determine whether what you have

brought forth is only a wind-egg or a real and genuine birth. Therefore,

keep up your spirits, and answer like a man what you think.

THEAETETUS: Ask me.

SOCRATES: Then once more: Is it your opinion that nothing is but what

becomes?--the good and the noble, as well as all the other things which

we were just now mentioning?

THEAETETUS: When I hear you discoursing in this style, I think that

there is a great deal in what you say, and I am very ready to assent.

SOCRATES: Let us not leave the argument unfinished, then; for there

still remains to be considered an objection which may be raised about

dreams and diseases, in particular about madness, and the various

illusions of hearing and sight, or of other senses. For you know that

in all these cases the esse-percipi theory appears to be unmistakably

refuted, since in dreams and illusions we certainly have false

perceptions; and far from saying that everything is which appears, we

should rather say that nothing is which appears.

THEAETETUS: Very true, Socrates.

SOCRATES: But then, my boy, how can any one contend that knowledge is

perception, or that to every man what appears is?

THEAETETUS: I am afraid to say, Socrates, that I have nothing to answer,

because you rebuked me just now for making this excuse; but I certainly

cannot undertake to argue that madmen or dreamers think truly, when they

imagine, some of them that they are gods, and others that they can fly,

and are flying in their sleep.

SOCRATES: Do you see another question which can be raised about these

phenomena, notably about dreaming and waking?

THEAETETUS: What question?

SOCRATES: A question which I think that you must often have heard

persons ask:--How can you determine whether at this moment we are

sleeping, and all our thoughts are a dream; or whether we are awake, and

talking to one another in the waking state?

THEAETETUS: Indeed, Socrates, I do not know how to prove the one

any more than the other, for in both cases the facts precisely

correspond;--and there is no difficulty in supposing that during all

this discussion we have been talking to one another in a dream; and when

in a dream we seem to be narrating dreams, the resemblance of the two

states is quite astonishing.

SOCRATES: You see, then, that a doubt about the reality of sense is

easily raised, since there may even be a doubt whether we are awake

or in a dream. And as our time is equally divided between sleeping

and waking, in either sphere of existence the soul contends that the

thoughts which are present to our minds at the time are true; and during

one half of our lives we affirm the truth of the one, and, during the

other half, of the other; and are equally confident of both.

THEAETETUS: Most true.

SOCRATES: And may not the same be said of madness and other disorders?

the difference is only that the times are not equal.

THEAETETUS: Certainly.

SOCRATES: And is truth or falsehood to be determined by duration of

time?

THEAETETUS: That would be in many ways ridiculous.

SOCRATES: But can you certainly determine by any other means which of

these opinions is true?

THEAETETUS: I do not think that I can.

SOCRATES: Listen, then, to a statement of the other side of the

argument, which is made by the champions of appearance. They would say,

as I imagine--Can that which is wholly other than something, have the

same quality as that from which it differs? and observe, Theaetetus,

that the word 'other' means not 'partially,' but 'wholly other.'

THEAETETUS: Certainly, putting the question as you do, that which is

wholly other cannot either potentially or in any other way be the same.

SOCRATES: And must therefore be admitted to be unlike?

THEAETETUS: True.

SOCRATES: If, then, anything happens to become like or unlike itself or

another, when it becomes like we call it the same--when unlike, other?

THEAETETUS: Certainly.

SOCRATES: Were we not saying that there are agents many and infinite,

and patients many and infinite?

THEAETETUS: Yes.

SOCRATES: And also that different combinations will produce results

which are not the same, but different?

THEAETETUS: Certainly.

SOCRATES: Let us take you and me, or anything as an example:--There is

Socrates in health, and Socrates sick--Are they like or unlike?

THEAETETUS: You mean to compare Socrates in health as a whole, and

Socrates in sickness as a whole?

SOCRATES: Exactly; that is my meaning.

THEAETETUS: I answer, they are unlike.

SOCRATES: And if unlike, they are other?

THEAETETUS: Certainly.

SOCRATES: And would you not say the same of Socrates sleeping and

waking, or in any of the states which we were mentioning?

THEAETETUS: I should.

SOCRATES: All agents have a different patient in Socrates, accordingly

as he is well or ill.

THEAETETUS: Of course.

SOCRATES: And I who am the patient, and that which is the agent, will

produce something different in each of the two cases?

THEAETETUS: Certainly.

SOCRATES: The wine which I drink when I am in health, appears sweet and

pleasant to me?

THEAETETUS: True.

SOCRATES: For, as has been already acknowledged, the patient and agent

meet together and produce sweetness and a perception of sweetness, which

are in simultaneous motion, and the perception which comes from the

patient makes the tongue percipient, and the quality of sweetness which

arises out of and is moving about the wine, makes the wine both to be

and to appear sweet to the healthy tongue.

THEAETETUS: Certainly; that has been already acknowledged.

SOCRATES: But when I am sick, the wine really acts upon another and a

different person?

THEAETETUS: Yes.

SOCRATES: The combination of the draught of wine, and the Socrates

who is sick, produces quite another result; which is the sensation of

bitterness in the tongue, and the motion and creation of bitterness in

and about the wine, which becomes not bitterness but something bitter;

as I myself become not perception but percipient?

THEAETETUS: True.

SOCRATES: There is no other object of which I shall ever have the same

perception, for another object would give another perception, and would

make the percipient other and different; nor can that object which

affects me, meeting another subject, produce the same, or become

similar, for that too would produce another result from another subject,

and become different.

THEAETETUS: True.

SOCRATES: Neither can I by myself, have this sensation, nor the object

by itself, this quality.

THEAETETUS: Certainly not.

SOCRATES: When I perceive I must become percipient of something--there

can be no such thing as perceiving and perceiving nothing; the object,

whether it become sweet, bitter, or of any other quality, must have

relation to a percipient; nothing can become sweet which is sweet to no

one.

THEAETETUS: Certainly not.

SOCRATES: Then the inference is, that we (the agent and patient) are or

become in relation to one another; there is a law which binds us one to

the other, but not to any other existence, nor each of us to himself;

and therefore we can only be bound to one another; so that whether

a person says that a thing is or becomes, he must say that it is or

becomes to or of or in relation to something else; but he must not

say or allow any one else to say that anything is or becomes

absolutely:--such is our conclusion.

THEAETETUS: Very true, Socrates.

SOCRATES: Then, if that which acts upon me has relation to me and to no

other, I and no other am the percipient of it?

THEAETETUS: Of course.

SOCRATES: Then my perception is true to me, being inseparable from my

own being; and, as Protagoras says, to myself I am judge of what is and

what is not to me.

THEAETETUS: I suppose so.

SOCRATES: How then, if I never err, and if my mind never trips in the

conception of being or becoming, can I fail of knowing that which I

perceive?

THEAETETUS: You cannot.

SOCRATES: Then you were quite right in affirming that knowledge is only

perception; and the meaning turns out to be the same, whether with Homer

and Heracleitus, and all that company, you say that all is motion and

flux, or with the great sage Protagoras, that man is the measure of all

things; or with Theaetetus, that, given these premises, perception is

knowledge. Am I not right, Theaetetus, and is not this your new-born

child, of which I have delivered you? What say you?

THEAETETUS: I cannot but agree, Socrates.

SOCRATES: Then this is the child, however he may turn out, which you and

I have with difficulty brought into the world. And now that he is born,

we must run round the hearth with him, and see whether he is worth

rearing, or is only a wind-egg and a sham. Is he to be reared in any

case, and not exposed? or will you bear to see him rejected, and not get

into a passion if I take away your first-born?

THEODORUS: Theaetetus will not be angry, for he is very good-natured.

But tell me, Socrates, in heaven's name, is this, after all, not the

truth?

SOCRATES: You, Theodorus, are a lover of theories, and now you

innocently fancy that I am a bag full of them, and can easily pull one

out which will overthrow its predecessor. But you do not see that in

reality none of these theories come from me; they all come from him who

talks with me. I only know just enough to extract them from the wisdom

of another, and to receive them in a spirit of fairness. And now I shall

say nothing myself, but shall endeavour to elicit something from our

young friend.

THEODORUS: Do as you say, Socrates; you are quite right.

SOCRATES: Shall I tell you, Theodorus, what amazes me in your

acquaintance Protagoras?

THEODORUS: What is it?

SOCRATES: I am charmed with his doctrine, that what appears is to

each one, but I wonder that he did not begin his book on Truth with a

declaration that a pig or a dog-faced baboon, or some other yet stranger

monster which has sensation, is the measure of all things; then he might

have shown a magnificent contempt for our opinion of him by informing

us at the outset that while we were reverencing him like a God for

his wisdom he was no better than a tadpole, not to speak of his

fellow-men--would not this have produced an overpowering effect? For

if truth is only sensation, and no man can discern another's feelings

better than he, or has any superior right to determine whether his

opinion is true or false, but each, as we have several times repeated,

is to himself the sole judge, and everything that he judges is true and

right, why, my friend, should Protagoras be preferred to the place

of wisdom and instruction, and deserve to be well paid, and we poor

ignoramuses have to go to him, if each one is the measure of his own

wisdom? Must he not be talking 'ad captandum' in all this? I say nothing

of the ridiculous predicament in which my own midwifery and the whole

art of dialectic is placed; for the attempt to supervise or refute the

notions or opinions of others would be a tedious and enormous piece of

folly, if to each man his own are right; and this must be the case if

Protagoras' Truth is the real truth, and the philosopher is not merely

amusing himself by giving oracles out of the shrine of his book.

THEODORUS: He was a friend of mine, Socrates, as you were saying, and

therefore I cannot have him refuted by my lips, nor can I oppose you

when I agree with you; please, then, to take Theaetetus again; he seemed

to answer very nicely.

SOCRATES: If you were to go into a Lacedaemonian palestra, Theodorus,

would you have a right to look on at the naked wrestlers, some of them

making a poor figure, if you did not strip and give them an opportunity

of judging of your own person?

THEODORUS: Why not, Socrates, if they would allow me, as I think you

will, in consideration of my age and stiffness; let some more supple

youth try a fall with you, and do not drag me into the gymnasium.

SOCRATES: Your will is my will, Theodorus, as the proverbial

philosophers say, and therefore I will return to the sage Theaetetus:

Tell me, Theaetetus, in reference to what I was saying, are you not

lost in wonder, like myself, when you find that all of a sudden you are

raised to the level of the wisest of men, or indeed of the gods?--for

you would assume the measure of Protagoras to apply to the gods as well

as men?

THEAETETUS: Certainly I should, and I confess to you that I am lost in

wonder. At first hearing, I was quite satisfied with the doctrine, that

whatever appears is to each one, but now the face of things has changed.

SOCRATES: Why, my dear boy, you are young, and therefore your ear

is quickly caught and your mind influenced by popular arguments.

Protagoras, or some one speaking on his behalf, will doubtless say in

reply,--Good people, young and old, you meet and harangue, and bring

in the gods, whose existence or non-existence I banish from writing and

speech, or you talk about the reason of man being degraded to the level

of the brutes, which is a telling argument with the multitude, but not

one word of proof or demonstration do you offer. All is probability with

you, and yet surely you and Theodorus had better reflect whether you

are disposed to admit of probability and figures of speech in matters

of such importance. He or any other mathematician who argued from

probabilities and likelihoods in geometry, would not be worth an ace.

THEAETETUS: But neither you nor we, Socrates, would be satisfied with

such arguments.

SOCRATES: Then you and Theodorus mean to say that we must look at the

matter in some other way?

THEAETETUS: Yes, in quite another way.

SOCRATES: And the way will be to ask whether perception is or is not the

same as knowledge; for this was the real point of our argument, and with

a view to this we raised (did we not?) those many strange questions.

THEAETETUS: Certainly.

SOCRATES: Shall we say that we know every thing which we see and hear?

for example, shall we say that not having learned, we do not hear the

language of foreigners when they speak to us? or shall we say that

we not only hear, but know what they are saying? Or again, if we see

letters which we do not understand, shall we say that we do not see

them? or shall we aver that, seeing them, we must know them?

THEAETETUS: We shall say, Socrates, that we know what we actually see

and hear of them--that is to say, we see and know the figure and colour

of the letters, and we hear and know the elevation or depression of the

sound of them; but we do not perceive by sight and hearing, or know,

that which grammarians and interpreters teach about them.

SOCRATES: Capital, Theaetetus; and about this there shall be no dispute,

because I want you to grow; but there is another difficulty coming,

which you will also have to repulse.

THEAETETUS: What is it?

SOCRATES: Some one will say, Can a man who has ever known anything, and

still has and preserves a memory of that which he knows, not know that

which he remembers at the time when he remembers? I have, I fear, a

tedious way of putting a simple question, which is only, whether a man

who has learned, and remembers, can fail to know?

THEAETETUS: Impossible, Socrates; the supposition is monstrous.

SOCRATES: Am I talking nonsense, then? Think: is not seeing perceiving,

and is not sight perception?

THEAETETUS: True.

SOCRATES: And if our recent definition holds, every man knows that which

he has seen?

THEAETETUS: Yes.

SOCRATES: And you would admit that there is such a thing as memory?

THEAETETUS: Yes.

SOCRATES: And is memory of something or of nothing?

THEAETETUS: Of something, surely.

SOCRATES: Of things learned and perceived, that is?

THEAETETUS: Certainly.

SOCRATES: Often a man remembers that which he has seen?

THEAETETUS: True.

SOCRATES: And if he closed his eyes, would he forget?

THEAETETUS: Who, Socrates, would dare to say so?

SOCRATES: But we must say so, if the previous argument is to be

maintained.

THEAETETUS: What do you mean? I am not quite sure that I understand you,

though I have a strong suspicion that you are right.

SOCRATES: As thus: he who sees knows, as we say, that which he sees; for

perception and sight and knowledge are admitted to be the same.

THEAETETUS: Certainly.

SOCRATES: But he who saw, and has knowledge of that which he saw,

remembers, when he closes his eyes, that which he no longer sees.

THEAETETUS: True.

SOCRATES: And seeing is knowing, and therefore not-seeing is

not-knowing?

THEAETETUS: Very true.

SOCRATES: Then the inference is, that a man may have attained the

knowledge of something, which he may remember and yet not know, because

he does not see; and this has been affirmed by us to be a monstrous

supposition.

THEAETETUS: Most true.

SOCRATES: Thus, then, the assertion that knowledge and perception are

one, involves a manifest impossibility?

THEAETETUS: Yes.

SOCRATES: Then they must be distinguished?

THEAETETUS: I suppose that they must.

SOCRATES: Once more we shall have to begin, and ask 'What is knowledge?'

and yet, Theaetetus, what are we going to do?

THEAETETUS: About what?

SOCRATES: Like a good-for-nothing cock, without having won the victory,

we walk away from the argument and crow.

THEAETETUS: How do you mean?

SOCRATES: After the manner of disputers (Lys.; Phaedo; Republic), we

were satisfied with mere verbal consistency, and were well pleased if in

this way we could gain an advantage. Although professing not to be mere

Eristics, but philosophers, I suspect that we have unconsciously fallen

into the error of that ingenious class of persons.

THEAETETUS: I do not as yet understand you.

SOCRATES: Then I will try to explain myself: just now we asked the

question, whether a man who had learned and remembered could fail to

know, and we showed that a person who had seen might remember when he

had his eyes shut and could not see, and then he would at the same

time remember and not know. But this was an impossibility. And so the

Protagorean fable came to nought, and yours also, who maintained that

knowledge is the same as perception.

THEAETETUS: True.

SOCRATES: And yet, my friend, I rather suspect that the result would

have been different if Protagoras, who was the father of the first of

the two brats, had been alive; he would have had a great deal to say on

their behalf. But he is dead, and we insult over his orphan child; and

even the guardians whom he left, and of whom our friend Theodorus is

one, are unwilling to give any help, and therefore I suppose that I must

take up his cause myself, and see justice done?

THEODORUS: Not I, Socrates, but rather Callias, the son of Hipponicus,

is guardian of his orphans. I was too soon diverted from the

abstractions of dialectic to geometry. Nevertheless, I shall be grateful

to you if you assist him.

SOCRATES: Very good, Theodorus; you shall see how I will come to the

rescue. If a person does not attend to the meaning of terms as they are

commonly used in argument, he may be involved even in greater paradoxes

than these. Shall I explain this matter to you or to Theaetetus?

THEODORUS: To both of us, and let the younger answer; he will incur less

disgrace if he is discomfited.

SOCRATES: Then now let me ask the awful question, which is this:--Can a

man know and also not know that which he knows?

THEODORUS: How shall we answer, Theaetetus?

THEAETETUS: He cannot, I should say.

SOCRATES: He can, if you maintain that seeing is knowing. When you are

imprisoned in a well, as the saying is, and the self-assured adversary

closes one of your eyes with his hand, and asks whether you can see

his cloak with the eye which he has closed, how will you answer the

inevitable man?

Theaetetus(#1726) · 第 11 / 15 题