AN INTERVIEW WITH JACOB H. SCHIFF.

One of the leading American financiers and noted

philanthropist; founder of Jewish Theological Seminary and of

Semitic Museum at Harvard University; a native of Germany and

member of the firm of Kuhn, Loeb & Co., bankers.

By Edward Marshall.

American as I am in every fibre, and in accord as I feel with every

interest of the country of my adoption, I cannot find myself in

agreement with what appears to be, to a considerable extent, American

opinion as to the origin and responsibility for the deplorable conflict

in which almost all of Europe has become involved.

For many reasons my personal sympathies are with Germany. I cannot feel

convinced that she has been the real aggressor; I believe that war was

forced upon her, almost as if by prearrangement among the nations with

whom she now contends; I cannot but believe that they had become jealous

and envious of her rapid and unprecedented peaceful development and had

concluded that the moment had arrived when all was favorable for a union

against her.

Although I left Germany half a century ago, I would think as little of

arraying myself against her, the country of my birth, in this the moment

of her struggle for existence, as of arraying myself against my parents.

But while I steadfastly believe this war to have been forced upon

Germany against her will, I also believe that circumstances which were

stronger than the Governments of England and France, her present

enemies, were necessary to overcome an equally definite reluctance upon

their part.

In other words, I cannot wholly blame the English Government, or the

French Government, any more than I can wholly blame the German

Government.

Let us see how the great tragedy came about. It is safe to pass rapidly

over the Servian-Bosnian-Herzegovinian-Austro-Hungarian complication

which served as the immediate precipitant of hostilities. It has been

detailed repeatedly in THE TIMES and other American publications.

It had reached a point at which the Austro-Hungarian Government felt

compelled to take extreme measures by means of which to safeguard the

integrity of the empire.

The firm but fatal ultimatum to Servia followed, the reply to which,

suffice it to say, was unsatisfactory to Austria, who could not accept

the suggestion of an investigation into the circumstances attending the

assassination of the Archduke Ferdinand through a commission or court on

which she was not represented.

Like Maine Case.

The situation really was analogous to that which existed between the

United States and Spain when the Maine was blown up in Havana Harbor. In

order to fix the responsibility for this dastardly affair we then

similarly demanded an investigation by Spain, to be carried out with the

assistance of representatives of this Government. Spain, too, then

offered to conduct an investigation, but she peremptorily declined to

allow us to take part in it.

This attitude on her part quickly brought about our declaration of war

against her. It is important that Americans should realize the

similarity in the two situations and the likeness of the Austrian action

of 1914 to that which our own Government took in 1898.

As soon as Austria had rejected as unsatisfactory Servia's reply to her

ultimatum she prepared to undertake a punitive armed expedition against

Servia, and Russia at once declared that she would rank herself as

Servia's protector.

Indeed, without any further parley, and to give effect to this threat,

Russia immediately mobilized her army. Since then it has been averred

that this mobilization had been in progress for several weeks previous

to Servia's rejection of the Austrian ultimatum.

This made it obligatory upon Germany to go to Austria's aid, under the

provisions of their treaty of alliance, although she was well aware that

such an action would bring France into the conflict under the terms of

her alliance with Russia. Indeed, an unsatisfactory reply had been

received from France as to the latter's intentions, but Germany

endeavored to secure at least an assurance of England's neutrality. This

proved to be impossible.

How the German Government could indulge for a moment in the hope that in

a war with Russia and France on the one side and Germany and Austria on

the other, England could be induced to remain neutral passes

comprehension, but that it did believe this seems a certainty.

The English Government, no doubt, correctly felt that without the aid of

its immense resources, and particularly without the operations of its

great navy against Germany and Austria, the latter nations would find it

not so very difficult a task to dispose of both Russia and France.

English statesmen very promptly must have become alive to the

probability that a Germany which had subdued Russia and France, and thus

had made itself master of the Continent, would be unlikely long to

tolerate a continuance of England's world leadership.

So, even if the neutrality of Belgium had not been violated, other

reasons would have been found by England for joining France and Russia

in the war against Germany, for England would not risk, without any

effort to protect them, the loss of her continued domination of the

high seas and her undisputed possession of her vast colonial empire.

Germany Fighting for Life.

I am not defending the violation of Belgian neutrality. This,

undeniably, was a most unjustifiable action, in spite of German claims

that she was forced into it by the necessities of the situation. But I

am explaining that, even had it not occurred, still England would have

gone to war.

That was the situation.

Germany is now fighting for her very existence, and I, who am not

without knowledge of German conditions, am convinced that never has

there been a war more wholly that of a whole people than is this present

conflict, as far as Germany is concerned.

Any one who has been in even superficial touch with German public

opinion and individual feeling in any part of the empire, since the war

began, must know that there is hardly a man, woman, or child throughout

the empire who would hesitate if called upon to sacrifice possessions or

life in order to insure victory to the Fatherland. Seventy million

people who are animated by unanimous sentiment of this sort cannot be

crushed, probably not subdued.

And England is confronted by the certainty that her world leadership is

the stake for which she is fighting; that her defeat would mean the end

of the vast dominance which she has exercised throughout the world,

since the time of the Armada, through the power of her great navy.

Is it not apparent, therefore, that these nations, if left to

themselves, inevitably must continue the war until one side or the

other, or both, shall become exhausted--an eventuation which may be

postponed not for mere months but for years?

In our own civil war Grant for almost two years stood within a hundred

or a hundred and fifty miles of Richmond, the heart of the Confederacy,

and was not able to sufficiently subdue Lee's forces to enable him to

get possession of the city until the complete exhaustion of the

Confederacy's resources in men and money had been accomplished.

[Illustration: VISCOUNT JAMES BRYCE

_(Photo from George G. Bain.)_

_See Page 477_]

[Illustration: DR. BERNHARD DERNBURG

_(Photo by Campbell Studios.)_

_See Page 487_]

[Illustration: DAVID STARR JORDAN

_See Page 502_]

[Illustration: JOHN GRIER HIBBEN

_(Photo by McManus.)_

_See Page 503_]

While that situation may not offer a true parallel in all respects to

that in which we find the belligerent forces in the present European

war, it nevertheless may be taken as a precedent proving that frontal

encounters of powerful opponents generally do not yield final results

until actual exhaustion compels one side or the other to abandon hope.

Such an exhaustion hardly can be expected within measurable time on the

part of either one or the other of the combatants in the existing

European conflict, and this means the probable continuation for a long

period of the merciless slaughter which has marked the last few months.

We hold up our hands in horror at the stories of human sacrifices in the

early ages when, after all, these were, perhaps, less brutal and less

appalling than the wholesale slaughter of the flower of these warring

peoples of which we now read almost daily.

As I see the situation there really are only three contestants in the

war--England, Russia, and Germany. France, Belgium, and Austria are

important auxiliaries, but they are playing to a certain extent

secondary rôles.

England's real object is the utter defeat of Germany--nothing more nor

less than that--and if this is accomplished England will have control of

Europe. It must be remembered that the English Government and English

people frequently have asserted that they would not be satisfied with

mere defeat of Germany's armed forces, but that her power must be

permanently paralyzed.

If England should accomplish this, with Germany, its army and its navy,

thus wholly out of the way, no one would be left for England to fear in

future upon the high seas.

That might be the chief significance of England's complete victory, and

its complete significance would be that every nation in the world would

have to do the British bidding, for should any one refuse she could

completely destroy its commerce and shut off its overseas supplies.

In the cases of most nations overseas supplies include material vital

to the continuance of life and happiness; to every nation, in these days

of a developed and habitual foreign trade, overseas supplies are

actually essential, even when they do not necessarily include meats and

wheat and other foodstuffs.

The effect upon the United States of such an English victory would be

most disastrous.

The alliance between England and Japan is likely to be permanent. That

is something which Americans cannot afford to forget for a moment.

England needs Japan in the Far East, especially as an ally in case of

need, which at some time is certain to arrive, against Russia; and Japan

for many reasons needs the strength of English backing, without which

her financial and political situation soon would become most dangerous,

if not collapse.

Such a permanent alliance would have this consequence upon us, that

without even the probability of difficulties with either England or

Japan--and, personally, I do not believe that such a probability need be

feared--we nevertheless year after year would be compelled to

increasingly prepare for what may be defined as the disagreeable

possibility of the eventuation of a disagreeable possibility.

Certainly we should be under the necessity of notably and, therefore,

very expensively, increasing our naval armament; we should be under the

necessity of large expenditures for coast defense.

Corollary military cost would be enormous and burdensome. The

preparation which would be imposed on us as a necessity by such a

permanent alliance would be sufficiently extensive and expensive to

burden our people heavily and handicap our national progress.

It might involve, perhaps, even a greater hardship in our case than

militarism has involved in Germany. It is improbable that the average

American realizes the part which absence of such burdens has played in

our national development so far; it would be difficult for the average

American who has not studied the whole subject carefully to estimate

accurately the part which the imposition of such a burden would be sure

to play in our future.

We have been measurably a free people. If we were under the necessity of

supporting vast military and naval establishments we should be that no

longer, no matter how completely we adhered to our democratic political

system and ideals. It is not Kings, but what they do, which burdens

countries, and the most burdensome, act of any King is to load his

country up with non-productive, threatening, and expensive war

machinery.

The Real Peril.

I fear that the American people as a whole have visualized only

slightly, if at all, the real peril involved in this contingency; but I

cannot feel otherwise than sure that soon they must awake to the great

danger that militarism and navalism may be imposed upon them through no

fault of their own.

American impulses trend away from armament toward peaceful development

along industrial lines, but even now political leaders in Washington

begin to see what may be coming. The propositions which already have

been made for considerable increases in our naval and military forces

may be regarded as only the forerunners of what is to be expected later.

My sympathies and interests, in other words my patriotic sentiments, are

definitely American. I must repeat that I am of German origin, and that

as regards the present struggle I am pro-German, yet it would be

impossible for me to say that I am anti-English, although I am

anti-Russian for reasons that are obvious.

I already have expressed the belief that the complete humiliation of

England would be disastrous to us. Now, it seems to me that if Germany

should be completely successful, if she should be able to wear out the

Allies, break down France, hold Russia in check, and cripple or even

invade England, (which many German leaders actually believe can be done,

incredible as it may seem to us,) Germany would acquire a position such

as never has been held by any nation since the beginning of history. Not

even the power of the Roman Empire would approach it.

The advance which has marked the development of every means of

communication, transportation, manufacturing, &c., since Rome's day

would give Germany, in the case of such an eventuation, a power which

would have been inconceivable to the most ambitious Roman Emperor. It

would make her a menace not only to her immediate neighbors, but to the

entire globe.

Could she be trusted with such power? Notwithstanding my personal

sympathies, which I have taken pains to clearly outline, I must admit

that I cannot think so. The German character is not only self-reliant,

which is admirable, but it readily becomes domineering, particularly

when in the ascendency.

In the rôle of a world conqueror Germany would become a world

dictator--would indulge in a domination which would be almost unbearable

to every other nation. Particularly would this be the case in respect to

her relations with the United States, a nation with which she always has

had and always must have intimate trade and commercial relations.

Should Germany make England impotent and France powerless we should

become more or less dependent upon German good-will, and it is highly

probable, indeed I regard it as a certainty, that before long, in such

an event, the Monroe Doctrine would cease to exercise any important

influence on world events. It would become a thing of the past--a "scrap

of paper."

You see that while I am not neutral to the extreme, while I fervently

hope and pray that Germany may not be wrecked and that she may emerge

from the war with full ability to maintain her own, I cannot believe

that it would be good for her or good for the world in general if she

found herself absolutely and incontrovertibly victorious at the end of

the great struggle. In other words, I wish Germany to be victorious, but

I do not wish her to be too victorious.

This brings us definitely to the question as to what can be done to stop

this war. Its continuance is infinitely costly of men and treasure; its

prosecution to the bitter end would mean complete disaster for one

contestant and only less complete destruction for the other, and it

would give to the victor, no matter what his sufferings and losses might

have been, a power dangerous to the entire world.

How shall it end? We do not want its end to mean a new European map.

Anything of the sort would include the seed of another European war, to

be fought out later and at even greater probable cost, with all the

world-disturbance implied in such an eventuation.

What the United States should desire and does desire is an understanding

between these nations, of just what they are fighting for, which I

almost believe they no longer know themselves, and a conference between

them now, a pause to think, which at least may help toward stimulating

each side to make concessions, before the ultimate of damage has been

done.

Such a conference might be called even without any interval in warfare

and induced without definite outside intervention from ourselves or any

one else. I believe it not to be beyond the bounds of possibility that

if this course could be brought about importantly enough, a way out of

this brutal struggle and carnage might be discovered even now, and I

know I am not alone in this belief.

The situation is unprecedented. No congress such as in former times more

than once has settled wars and brought about peace by the give-and-take

process could be of avail in the existing circumstances. Something far

higher than such a conference is needed. This peace must not be

temporary. It must mark not the ending of this war alone but the ending

of all war.

Some means must be devised and generally agreed to which, after the

re-establishment of peace, will do away with jealousies among European

nations, so that the continual increase of armament on land and sea no

longer will be necessary, and humanity will be freed from its tremendous

burden.

It is not at present possible to point out any concrete means by which

these things may be accomplished, but it is not impossible that, when

reason shall be returned to the Governments now at war, they themselves

may suggest to one another plans and ways and means how this may be

effectuated.

Toward this end America may help tremendously, and herein lies, it seems

to me, the greatest opportunity ever offered by events to the American

press.

Let the newspapers of America stop futile philosophizing upon the merits

and demerits of each case, let them measurably cease their comment upon

what each side has accomplished or failed to accomplish during the

tragic four months which have traced their bloody mark on history.

Let them begin to stimulate public opinion in favor of a rational

adjustment of the points at issue--such an adjustment as will leave each

contestant unhumiliated and intact, such an adjustment as will avoid, as

far as may be possible, the complete defeat of any one, such an

adjustment as will do what can be done toward righting wrongs already

wrought, and such an adjustment as will let the world return as soon as

may be to the paths of peace, productiveness, prosperity, and happiness.

In suggesting that America should regard this effort as an obligation I

am assuming for this country no rights which are not properly hers. We,

a nation of a hundred million people, laboring constantly for peace and

human progress, have a right to make our voice heard, and if we raise it

properly it will find listeners among those who can help toward the

accomplishment of what we seek. But if we would make it heard we must be

earnest, be honest, and be ceaseless in the reiteration of our demand.

Have we not the right to insist that the interests of neutral nations,

of whom, with our South American cousins, (for the better intercourse

with whom we have just spent several hundred millions upon the

construction of the Panama Canal,) we form so large a percentage, shall

before long be given some consideration by the nations whose great

quarrel is harming us incalculably?

Americans Should Speak Out.

The interruption of our economic development already has become marked

and the war's baneful influence upon moral conditions in our midst shows

itself through constantly increasing unemployment and, as a logical

consequence of that, the rapid filling of our eleemosynary and penal

institutions. May we not reasonably demand that this shall speedily be

brought to an end?

It probably is true that under the rules of the game the President of

the United States cannot offer his good offices again to the

belligerents without first being invited by one or the other side to do

this, but the people of the United States have a voice even more

powerful than his; if that of the people of South America should be

joined with it, and if the combined sound should be made unquestionably

apparent to the warring nations, it could not pass unheeded.

Public opinion in the United States should firmly seek to impress upon

the warring nations the conviction that nothing can secure a lasting

peace except assurance of conditions under which not mighty armies

and tremendous navies are held to be the factors through which

trade expansion and the conquest of the markets of the world are

to be obtained, but that this can be accomplished better and more

lastingly through rigid adherence to the qualities and methods which

generally make for success in commercial or any other peaceful

competition--fairness, thorough efficiency, and hard work.

The concentrated power of the American press and people would be

tremendous. I am sure that, in this instance, it is possible to

concentrate it for righteousness and the future good of all humanity.

The New York Times Current History of the European War, Vol. 1, January 9, 1915 What Americans Say to Europe · 第 28 / 146 题