Mr. JENNER. He said that to you in the presence of whom?
Mr. WEISSMAN. I believe Bill Burley was there, and Larrie Schmidt.
Mr. JENNER. Where was this?
Mr. WEISSMAN. In Joe Grinnan's office.
Mr. JENNER. In Dallas?
Mr. WEISSMAN. In Dallas; yes.
Mr. JENNER. That is room 811 of the Wilson Building?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes; and I was against this particular question, because
I frankly agreed with the coup. But it is a question of having all or
nothing.
Another question that was put in here--I forget exactly when--which I
wasn't in favor of, which we put in after the proof was submitted to
Joe Grinnan for his approval, is "Why have you ordered or permitted
your brother Bobby, the Attorney General, to go soft on Communists,
fellow travelers, and ultra-leftists in America, while permitting him
to criticize loyal Americans, who criticize you, your administration,
and your leadership?"
Now, this struck me as being a States rights plea, and as far as our
domestic policy goes, I am a pretty liberal guy. So I didn't agree with
that.
Mr. JENNER. Who suggested that question?
Mr. WEISSMAN. I don't remember. I just remember that it came up--I
didn't like it. But the fact was that it had to be in there.
Mr. JENNER. I would like to keep you on that for a moment. Was it a
suggestion that had come from a contributor, or did it originate in
your group?
Mr. WEISSMAN. I really don't recall.
Mr. JENNER. Or Mr. Grinnan?
Mr. WEISSMAN. I don't recall if it originated with Larrie or Mr.
Grinnan or with someone else. I really don't know.
Mr. JENNER. How old a man is Mr. Grinnan?
Mr. WEISSMAN. I would say in his very early thirties.
Representative FORD. That suggestion, the last one, didn't come from
you, however?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Which?
Representative FORD. The one you just read.
Mr. WEISSMAN. Oh, no.
Representative FORD. Because of your own liberal domestic philosophy?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Right. The only question in here that is entirely my own
is the last one, and this is because I was pretty steamed up over the
fiasco in Cuba and the lack of followup by the administration.
"Why have you scrapped the Monroe Doctrine in favor of the spirit of
Moscow?" I will still stand by that question.
As far as the copy at the top of the letter, appearing before the
questions, as far as I know, this was written by Larrie Schmidt. He
showed it to me. I said, "It is a little rough, but if we are going to
get our money's worth out of the ad, I guess it has to be."
Mr. JENNER. Mr. Chairman, may I stand over near the witness?
Representative FORD. Surely.
Mr. JENNER. Thank you.
When you say the copy at the top of the ad, does that include the
banner, "Welcome, Mr. Kennedy, to Dallas."?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And you are referring to all that portion of the ad which
is Commission Exhibit No. 1031, down to the first question?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes. The idea of the black border was mine.
Mr. JENNER. Yes. I was going to ask you that. Why did you suggest the
black border?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Well, I saw a proof of the ad--drew a mockup, the
advertising man at the newspaper office drew a mockup, and it was the
sort of thing that you just turned the page and pass it by, unless you
had something to bring it out. And I suggested a black border. He put a
one-eighth inch black border around. I said try a little heavier one.
He went to a quarter inch black border and I said, "That looks okay,"
and we had the black border.
Mr. JENNER. I take it from your present statement that you worked with
a copywriter or advertising composer at the Dallas Morning News.
Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes. His name was Dick Houston.
Mr. JENNER. How many editions did this ad run for the $1,463?
Mr. WEISSMAN. One edition. It came out on the evening edition, on the
21st, and the morning of the 22d.
Mr. JENNER. Just one paper?
Mr. WEISSMAN. One edition, one paper.
Mr. JENNER. That is only the Dallas Morning News?
Mr. WEISSMAN. That is right.
Mr. JENNER. It was not in the other Dallas papers?
Mr. WEISSMAN. No.
Mr. JENNER. The Times Herald?
Mr. WEISSMAN. No. We felt--we didn't even go to the Times Herald. We
felt they would not even print it, because they are a very liberal
paper, and we felt it would be a waste of time. We were convinced that
the Morning News was conservative enough to print it. And they did.
Mr. JENNER. So the Dallas Morning News people were quite aware of the
composition of the ad, and worked with you in putting it in final shape?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes; as a matter of fact, I had asked to show it to a
Mr. Gray, who was the head of the advertising department, and they
said no, that wouldn't be necessary, they just have to submit it to a
judge something or other, a retired judge who was their legal advisor,
and who would look at the ad to see if there was anything libelous in
it, so to speak, or anything that the Morning News could be sued for.
And I assume they did this, because they didn't let me know right away
whether or not they could print it.
When I came back that afternoon, or the following morning--I don't
recall which--and they said everything was okay, that it would go.
Mr. DULLES. When you spoke of the head of the advertising department,
that is the advertising department of the News?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Of the Dallas Morning News; yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Mr. Weissman, you have read two questions with which you
disagreed.
Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. You have read a question, which is the last in the
advertisement.
Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Of which you are the author, and you said you would still
stand by that particular one.
Mr. WEISSMAN. A hundred percent; yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Now, are there any others with which you had a measure of
disagreement, or any other which you now would not wish to support or,
as you put it, stand back of?
Mr. WEISSMAN. There was one other that I thought was being a little
rough on the President, but which I didn't particularly agree with a
hundred percent.
Mr. JENNER. Identify it, please.
Mr. WEISSMAN. It was in the question that read, "Why has Gus Hall, head
of the U.S. Communist Party, praised almost every one of your policies
and announced that the party will endorse and support your reelection
in 1964?
I personally thought that the selection of this particular question
tended to put President Kennedy in a light where he is voluntarily
accepting this support--in other words, sort of calling him a
Communist, which I felt he was not. And, at the same time, though, I
had a reservation about making a big furor over it, because of the
fact, if nothing else, if the President did read it, he might realize
something, and he just might do something about it, in foresaking the
support. So I let it go at that.
Mr. DULLES. When you spoke, then, of selection from a list--was that
the list to which you referred before, which I believe you said came
from the Birch Society?
Mr. JENNER. A list of 50 questions.
Mr. WEISSMAN. No; as far as I know it didn't come from the Birch
Society. It was just some political material that Larrie had collected
rafts of--he had books and folders. It was something he pulled out and
said, "Maybe we can use this." And we went through the 50 questions. We
were in a hurry, and this seemed to be the easiest way out, as far as
getting some text, some composition for the ad.
Representative FORD. So the final selection rested with Larrie, Mr.
Grinnan, and yourself, with the exception of this one contributor who
insisted on one?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Well, let's put it like this. I signed my name to the ad.
But you might say the final selection rested with the contributors. I
had to go along with them, because if I said I won't go along with it,
or I won't sign my name, there would have been an ad anyway--the ad
would have been printed anyway. Larrie would have put his name to it.
Now, let me tell you this. It will be a very short story.
Bill and I had decided about a week after we got to Dallas that Larrie
was full of hooey, that we could not go along with this guy.
Representative FORD. What do you mean by that?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Well, everything he is doing he is doing for himself, and
if we happen to fit in, it was fine. And he was getting an awful lot
of recognition and publicity. We felt if this guy got any stronger,
he would be able to move us out, or control us. So when the idea for
the ad came up I said, "Okay, I will put my name to it," because I
felt any recognition that came would then be in my favor, and if we
took advantage of this, and because these organizations would have to
back me personally as representing them, I could then denounce the
anti-Semitism, the anti-Catholic, anti-Negro, and they would have
to back me up, or else I would just tell the whole story about this
thing. And I felt that this was going to be my move to get back to the
original philosophy of a completely democratic type of organization.
And I had discussed--Bill and I, I might say, were a partnership unto
ourselves. We had decided one way or the other we were either going to
get out of Dallas or run the thing ourselves, because we didn't like
the way it was going.
Mr. DULLES. Did Larrie object to your being the one to sign the
advertisement?
Mr. WEISSMAN. No; in fact, Larrie was sort of afraid to sign it,
because when he came out and said he was part of the Stevenson
demonstration, his life had been threatened, and he had all sorts of
harrassing phone calls and so on. And he wanted to avoid this. But if
it was a question of printing an ad or not printing it, he would have
signed it.
Representative FORD. But as far as any organization of any kind being
responsible for this ad, it was not true. There was no organization
that backed this ad? There were four or five of you that really
promoted it and finally raised the money for it and put it in the
newspaper?
Mr. WEISSMAN. That is not quite accurate. You might say when you get
right down to it, in the final tale, the John Birch Society printed
that ad, not CUSA.
Mr. JENNER. Tell us why, now. Please expand on that.
Mr. WEISSMAN. Well, in order to get anywhere in Dallas, at least in
the area of conservative politics that we were in, you had to, you
might say, cotton to the John Birch Society, because they were a pretty
strong group, and still are, down there. And----
Mr. JENNER. Who is the head of that now?
Mr. WEISSMAN. The Birch Society?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mr. WEISSMAN. I never met the fellow. They had a paid coordinator. I
don't recall his name offhand. But, anyway----
Mr. JENNER. Were you in his offices?
Mr. WEISSMAN. No; Joe Grinnan, as a matter of fact, is the only man in
the hierarchy of the Birch Society in Dallas that I met.
Larrie was a member of the JBS, and Bill and I didn't like it, but we
saw that he was out for himself as much as anything, and this was a way
to help himself along anyway, both politically and financially. And he
convinced us of the method to his madness. But as I said we wanted to
move Larrie out when we found he was more JBS than he was CUSA, and he
was willing to go along with them completely, and forget about the CUSA
goals.
Representative FORD. Your allegiance was to CUSA?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Right. In other words, I would have used the John Birch
Society as a vehicle, as planned. But I would never have gone up on a
soapbox to support them.
Mr. DULLES. Who were the members of the American Fact-Finding
Committee, if any?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Well, the members would be myself, Bill Burley, Larrie
Schmidt, Joe Grinnan--just the people immediately involved.
Mr. JENNER. That was a name and solely a name?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Solely a name.
Mr. JENNER. There was no such organization?
Mr. WEISSMAN. None whatsoever.
Mr. JENNER. And you used it for convenience on this advertisement?
Mr. WEISSMAN. That is right. As a matter of fact, when I went to place
the ad, I could not remember the name. I had it written down on a piece
of paper. I had to refer to a piece of paper for the name.
Mr. JENNER. Had you ever used that name before?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Never.
Mr. JENNER. Did your group ever use it thereafter?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Not as far as I know.
Mr. JENNER. Have you now named all of the people who played any part
in, to the best of your recollection--in the idea for the publication
of, the actual drafting of the ad, and its ultimate running in that
edition of the Dallas Morning News?
Mr. WEISSMAN. There is only one other individual that I could name. He
was there at the reading of the final proof, before the ad was printed.
That was Joe Grinnan's brother, Robert P. Grinnan.
Mr. JENNER. Is he an older or younger brother?
Mr. WEISSMAN. I believe he is an older brother.
Mr. JENNER. What business is he engaged in?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Oil and real estate.
Mr. DULLES. Who took out the post office box 1792, Dallas 21, Tex.,
that appears under your name here on this advertisement?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Bill, Larrie, and I went to the post office together. I
signed for the box.
Representative FORD. Do you recall the date?
Mr. WEISSMAN. It was the same--the morning--the same morning I
originally went to get the ad laid out at the Morning News.
Representative FORD. Has it been discontinued?
Mr. WEISSMAN. The box? Yes; I received a communication from Larrie. He
said the box time had run out. They had extended it for 3 months after
that, and then it was--as far as I know, it is nonexistent now.
Senator COOPER. May I ask this question: Would you state now to this
Commission the idea of printing this ad was conceived by you and Larry
Jones--what is the other's name?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Larrie Schmidt.
Senator COOPER. Alone, and there was no stimulation from any outside
group or organization. Do you state that under oath?
Mr. WEISSMAN. There was stimulation.
Senator COOPER. From whom?
Mr. WEISSMAN. I assume from the Birch Society. In other words, I
think the idea for the ad, for the something to do on the occasion of
President Kennedy's visit--I think the idea for the something to do
came from the Birch Society--whether Mr. Joe Grinnan or someone else, I
don't know.
Senator COOPER. Was it communicated as an idea to you?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Larrie communicated the idea to me, said what do you
think. I said, why not?
Senator COOPER. Which one of this group did the idea come to?
Mr. WEISSMAN. I don't know.
Senator COOPER. It didn't come to you?
Mr. WEISSMAN. No; it didn't come to me personally originally, no.
Mr. DULLES. What is the basis of your evidence of saying this was the
Birch Society? How did you know that? Where did you get that?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Well, it came to a point where everything we were doing
we had to go talk to Joe--big brother. And that is just the way it
worked out.
Mr. JENNER. This is Joe Grinnan?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes. They were getting a grip on us, and Bill and I felt
that we had to bust this grip somehow.
Mr. DULLES. Was he prominent in the Birch Society?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes; he was known.
Mr. DULLES. Joe Grinnan?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes; he was known as a coordinator.
Representative FORD. This one question that was inserted at the
insistence of one of the contributors, which reads as follows: "Why has
the foreign policy of the United States degenerated to the point the
C.I.A. is arranging coups and having staunch anti-Communist allies of
the U.S. bloodily exterminated"--to what does that refer? Do you have
any specific information?
Mr. WEISSMAN. I know it specifically refers to the Vietnam thing, with
the overthrow of Diem, and the subsequent murder of the Diem people.
Representative FORD. Was that said to you at the time?
Mr. WEISSMAN. This was not said to me at the time. But I had
mentioned it various times, and this was definitely, as far as I am
concerned--this was definitely the reason for placing that. As a matter
of fact, this had occurred not too long after that, I believe.
Mr. DULLES. Who was it that insisted on the insertion of that?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Well, Joe Grinnan handed me this piece of paper. It was
written on a piece of scrap paper. I could hardly decipher it, myself.
And he said, "This has to be in. Go back and have them change the ad."
So I had to run back to the Morning News, with this other insertion.
This is just the way it happened.
(At this point, Senator Cooper withdrew from the hearing room.)
Representative FORD. I understand that you made a downpayment on the ad.
Mr. WEISSMAN. That is right.
Representative FORD. And then went back and paid the rest in full?
Mr. WEISSMAN. A thousand dollars the first day, and $400-odd on the
second day.
Mr. DULLES. Were both payments made before publication?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Mr. Dulles called attention to the post office box number.
Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. That stimulates me to ask you this: Did you receive any
responses to the advertisement?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Oh, did I? Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Now, tell us about that and also, before you start, do you
have any of those responses?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Not with me. All that I received I have at home.
Mr. JENNER. And indicate to us the volume that you have at home.
Mr. WEISSMAN. I have approximately 50 or 60 letters; about one-third
of which were favorable, and the rest, two-thirds, unfavorable. The
favorable responses, all but one came before--they were postmarked, the
envelopes were postmarked before the President was assassinated. And
the threatening letters and the nasty letters came afterward.
Mr. JENNER. Did you receive any contributions?
Mr. WEISSMAN. I still have a check to the American Fact-Finding
Committee in the amount of $20. Since we never opened a bank account,
I just sort of kept the check as a souvenir. There was one $2
contribution----
Mr. JENNER. Cash?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Right--from a retired train engineer, or something.