The President's Commission met at 10:30 a.m., on June 23, 1964, at 200
Maryland Avenue NE., Washington, D.C.
Present were Chief Justice Earl Warren, Chairman; Senator John Sherman
Cooper, Representative Hale Boggs, Representative Gerald R. Ford, and
Allen W. Dulles, members.
Also present were J. Lee Rankin, general counsel; and Albert E. Jenner,
Jr., assistant counsel.
TESTIMONY OF BERNARD WILLIAM WEISSMAN, ACCOMPANIED BY THOMAS A.
FLANNERY, ESQ.
(Members present: Chief Justice Warren, Representative Ford, and Mr.
Dulles.)
The CHAIRMAN. The Commission will be in order. Mr. Flannery, you are
here representing Mr. Weissman?
Mr. FLANNERY. Yes; Your Honor.
The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Jenner, would you mind making a brief statement of
the testimony we expect to develop here?
Mr. JENNER. Yes; Mr. Chief Justice.
Mr. Bernard William Weissman, who is the witness today, played some
part in the preparation of and the publication of the advertisement
in the Dallas Morning News on the 22d of November 1963, and we will
seek to develop the facts with respect to that. It has been marked as
Commission Exhibit No. 1031, entitled "Welcome, Mr. Kennedy."
The CHAIRMAN. Yes.
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 1031 for
identification.)
Mr. JENNER. Mr. Weissman's deposition was taken in part. He was not
then represented by counsel, and he had some qualms about it and raised
the issue, and as soon as it was raised we suspended the deposition. He
appears this morning with Mr. Flannery as his counsel.
Mr. Flannery, would you be good enough to state your full name?
Mr. FLANNERY. Thomas A. Flannery.
The CHAIRMAN. And you are a practitioner in Washington?
Mr. FLANNERY. Yes; Your Honor, I am a partner in the firm of Hamilton
and Hamilton.
The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Weissman; will you raise your right hand and be sworn?
Do you solemnly swear the testimony you shall give will be the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. WEISSMAN. I do.
The CHAIRMAN. Will you be seated? Mr. Jenner will question.
Mr. JENNER. Your full name is Bernard William Weissman?
Mr. WEISSMAN. That is right.
Mr. JENNER. And you now reside in New York City, do you not?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Mount Vernon, N.Y.
Mr. JENNER. Would you give your address?
Mr. WEISSMAN. 439 South Columbus Avenue, Mount Vernon, N.Y.
Mr. JENNER. You were born November 1, 1937?
Mr. WEISSMAN. That is right.
Mr. JENNER. You are almost 27 years old?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. All right. I would like some vital statistics, if I may,
Mr. Weissman. Are you presently employed?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And where are you employed presently?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Carpet Corp. of America, 655 Clinton Avenue, Newark, N.J.
Mr. JENNER. I see. Is that connected in any fashion with the Carpet Co.
by which you were employed in Dallas, Tex., last fall?
Mr. WEISSMAN. None whatsoever.
Mr. JENNER. You are a native born American?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And your folks are as well?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Excuse me?
Mr. JENNER. Your folks are as well, mother and father?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And you have two brothers?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes; I do.
Mr. JENNER. And they likewise are native born Americans?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. What is your marital status at the present time?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Separated.
Mr. JENNER. You were married or are married to Jane Byrnes Weissman?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. She is a native born American, also?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. You have been separated since when?
Mr. WEISSMAN. May 16, 1963.
Mr. JENNER. So you became separated from her before you went to Dallas
in the fall of 1963?
Mr. WEISSMAN. I was in the service at the time.
(At this point, Senator Cooper entered the hearing room.)
Mr. JENNER. Now, are you acquainted with a gentleman by the name of
Larrie Schmidt?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes; I am.
Mr. JENNER. When did you first meet him?
Mr. WEISSMAN. In Munich, Germany, about July or August of 1962.
Mr. JENNER. His middle name is Henry. Are you aware of that?
Mr. WEISSMAN. No; I am not aware of that.
Mr. JENNER. Where does he reside?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Well, he was in Dallas. I understand he has dropped from
sight. I don't know where he is now.
Mr. JENNER. Was he residing in Dallas in the fall of 1963 when you were
there?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. When did you arrive in Dallas?
Mr. WEISSMAN. In Dallas, on the 4th of November 1963.
Mr. JENNER. And was Mr. Schmidt aware that you were about to come to
Dallas?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And what was the purpose of your coming to Dallas?
Mr. WEISSMAN. I will be as brief as possible. It was simply to follow
through on plans that we had made in Germany, in order to develop a
conservative organization in Dallas, under our leadership.
Mr. JENNER. Did that conservative organization, or your purpose in
going to Dallas, as well, have any business context in addition to
politics?
Mr. WEISSMAN. I would say 50 percent of the purpose was business and
the other 50 percent politics. We figured that only rich men can
indulge full time in politics, so first we had to make some money
before we could devote ourselves to the political end completely.
Mr. JENNER. In short compass; would you tell the Commission your
background up to the time that you entered military service, and give
us the date of the entry of military service?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Do you mean as far as my schooling and where I lived
before then? Before I went into the service?
Mr. JENNER. Let's take it from high school.
Mr. WEISSMAN. I graduated from Edison Technical High School in Mount
Vernon in June of 1956, went to work for the Nuclear Development Corp.
as an experimental machinist in July of that year and left them in
August of 1957. I then went on the road with my brother, Joe, and
his wife, working as demonstrators or pitchmen, you might say, in
department stores, selling some patent medicines and the like. Did this
for about--oh, that was from the 18th of November 1957 up until about
April or May of 1958.
Mr. JENNER. Your brother Joe is a little bit older than you?
Mr. WEISSMAN. He is 20 months older, yes.
Mr. JENNER. And his given name is Joe, and not Joseph?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Joseph. Then--let's see--I went to work for the American
Schools of Music, which my brother founded in Jersey.
Mr. JENNER. Which brother?
Mr. WEISSMAN. My brother Joe--in New Jersey. And I stayed with him as
his sales manager for a little over a year.
Then I went to work for Encyclopedia Americana, Harvard Classics
Division, as a district sales manager. I was with them about a
year--until 19--I believe it was September of 1960.
I was starving, so I went to work for Underwood Olivetti, in Newark,
N.J., and I sold typewriters and calculators up until May of 1961, at
which time I quit, tried to go into business for myself in costume
jewelry, formed a corporation known as Jane Williams Co., Inc., and in
August of 1961, I was drafted into the Army. That was on August 5, 1961.
Mr. JENNER. You were honorably discharged from the Army in August 1963?
Mr. WEISSMAN. August 5; yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. What has been your father's occupation?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Well, for about 20 years he was plant superintendent for
University Loudspeakers in White Plains, N.Y. They moved to some place
out west. He quit and went back to work with Local 3 in New York City,
IBW.
Mr. JENNER. Your father's name is Harry?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Harry Weissman; yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Do you reside with him now at 439 South Columbus Avenue in
Mount Vernon?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. You were discharged from the Army honorably?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. You were married when, sir?
Mr. WEISSMAN. November 7, 1958.
Mr. JENNER. A New York girl?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Yonkers, N.Y.
Mr. JENNER. And you have some children?
Mr. WEISSMAN. No.
Mr. JENNER. You separated, as you have indicated. Now, would you start
from the Army?
Before I get to that, you met Larrie Schmidt in the Army?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes; I did.
Mr. JENNER. What other buddies did you have in the Army with whom you
again renewed your acquaintance when you were discharged from the Army
and went to Dallas?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Only one beside Larrie. That was Bill Burley. William
Burley.
Mr. JENNER. What contact did you have with Mr. Larrie Schmidt and Mr.
Burley after you left the Army, which eventually brought you to Dallas?
State it in your own words and chronologically, please.
Mr. WEISSMAN. Well, I got out of service on the 5th, and I spent the
month of August looking for a job. During this time, I had been in
contact with Larrie. I had telephoned him once during August. Things
were pretty bad. I didn't have any money. As far as I could ascertain
he was broke himself. There wasn't any percentage in going to Dallas
and not accomplishing anything. As a matter of fact, I had lost a good
deal of confidence in Larrie in the year that he left Munich and was in
Dallas, and the letters I got from him--he seemed to have deviated from
our original plan. I wasn't too hot about going. He didn't seem to be
accomplishing anything, except where it benefited him.
Mr. JENNER. You say he deviated from the original plan. What was the
original plan?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Well, the original plan was to stay away from various
organizations and societies that were, let's call them, radical, and
had a reputation as being such.
Mr. JENNER. When you say radical, what do you mean?
Mr. WEISSMAN. I mean radical right. And I considered myself more of an
idealist than a politician. Larrie was more of a politician than an
idealist. He went with the wind--which is good for him, I guess, and
bad for me.
In any case Larrie wrote me easily a dozen letters imploring me to come
down, telling me in one that he doesn't need me down there, but he
would love to have my help because he can't accomplish anything without
me, and in the next one saying, "Forget it, I don't need you," and so
forth. As the letters came, they went with the wind, depending on what
he was doing personally. And along about the end of October, I had been
in contact with Bill--he was in Baltimore, Md., selling hearing aids.
He wasn't getting anywhere. He was making a living.
Mr. JENNER. Up to this point each of you was barely making a living?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Right.
Mr. JENNER. And you had no capital?
Mr. WEISSMAN. No.
Mr. JENNER. No funds of your own?
Mr. WEISSMAN. None at all. And I got in touch with Bill. Actually, I
forgot how it was. He wrote me a letter and I wrote him a letter. In
any case, it came about that I invited Bill up to Mount Vernon, because
he figured if there was any money to be made it would be made in New
York, because this is a salesman's paradise. I invited Bill to Mount
Vernon. He came up about the last week of August.
I am sorry--October of 1963. And we set up about looking for work and
trying to find him work, that is--I was working for the Encyclopedia
Britannica, Great Books Division, as a district manager in Westchester
County. So I more or less supported Bill the best I could. I fed him
and gave him a room to sleep in and so forth.
In the meantime, Larrie had up to a point--hadn't accomplished anything
in the way that we could use gainfully or to our purposes in Dallas. So
there was really no reason to go down there--up until about, I guess,
the 26th or 28th of October.
Mr. JENNER. Excuse me. Why were you thinking of Dallas at this time?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Well, I kept getting these letters from Larrie. I tried
to forget about it, and he constantly reminded me. Once or twice a week
I would get a letter. And it was a question--I was almost obligated to
go, because I had promised I would be there. And still having somewhat
of a close relationship with Larrie, through my promises, I sort of
felt morally obligated to go down there.
And, at the same time, it was new, different, exciting, it had a lot of
promise for the future if it worked out.
So Adlai Stevenson was down there in the latter part of October.
(At this point, Representative Boggs entered the hearing room.)
Mr. WEISSMAN. And I didn't pay too much attention to this--until the
evening of Stevenson's speech at the Dallas Auditorium. And I got a
long distance telephone call from Larrie, and he explained what had
happened--that Stevenson had been struck by several individuals down
there.
Mr. JENNER. Please call on your best recollection and tell us what he
said to you. You recall that he made that telephone call?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. You recognized his voice?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. You are clear it was Larrie Schmidt?
Mr. WEISSMAN. That is right.
Mr. JENNER. What did he say?
Mr. WEISSMAN. He said that big things are happening, and he went--this
is before it hit the papers. He told me what had happened with Adlai
Stevenson.
Mr. JENNER. What did he say?
Mr. WEISSMAN. Something like, "I think we are" he always speaks I this
and I that. "I have made it, I have done it for us," something to this
effect. In other words, this is not exactly his words. I don't recall
his exact words. But this is essentially it. And that----
Mr. JENNER. Did you say to him, "What do you mean you have made it for
us?"
Mr. WEISSMAN. When he said, "I have made it for us," meaning Larrie
Schmidt--meaning me and Bill and whoever else was going to come down
here----