Mr. COLEMAN. Now Cuba.
Mr. DULLES. Could I see that passport for a moment? I think at this
particular time this passport was issued, I thought the only stamp was
Hungary.
Mr. SNYDER. I think there must have been others, and Hungary was added
after 1946.
Mr. DULLES. I will just read this.
"This passport is not valid for travel to the following areas under
the control of authorities with which the United States does not have
diplomatic relations: Albania, Bulgaria, and those portions of China,
Korea, and Vietnam under Communist control."
Now, that speaks as of--this is a printed notice in the passport,
and that speaks as of the date of issue of the passport, September
10, 1959. And then there is a stamp--I guess that is printed on the
passport--also printed, in a special box, "This passport is not valid
for travel in Hungary."
Mr. CHAYES. And then that is superimposed with a void stamp when we
took Hungary off the list of restricted areas.
Mr. DULLES. Right. I don't know whether that void stamp was put on in
1959--but it is not important as far as we are concerned.
In any event, this passport, as I understand, is perfectly good to
travel to Russia without any notification to the State Department, is
that correct?
Mr. SNYDER. Oh, yes.
Mr. COLEMAN. I should state for the record, sir, actually the
application which Oswald filed on September 4, 1959, included Russia as
a place where he intended to visit.
Mr. CHAYES. On the other hand, the State Department has no mechanism
for notifying posts abroad of ordinary travel to those countries.
Mr. DULLES. I wonder if it would not be a convenience to you if in
the case, let's say, of the Soviet Union, or possibly other Communist
countries, just as a routine matter they took off this note from the
passport so you would have some record there if anything turned up that
this fellow had said he was going to Russia. Maybe that would involve
administrative work.
Mr. SNYDER. I can't see what value this would be to a consul.
Mr. DULLES. Well, if a fellow got into trouble you would turn to his
records alphabetically and you would find Lee Harvey Oswald in his
application said he was going to go to Russia.
Mr. SNYDER. You mean if he gets in trouble in Russia?
Mr. DULLES. Yes.
Mr. SNYDER. If he gets in trouble in Russia, we know he is there.
Mr. DULLES. You might; you might not. They don't always tell you. You
don't think that would be of any particular value, though?
Mr. SNYDER. No; I don't, Mr. Dulles. Under any circumstances under
which it was useful to the Embassy to know whether a person had said he
was coming there, we can have the information by cable within 24 hours.
So to attempt--it would seem to me--to attempt to notify embassies
abroad----
Mr. DULLES. I am not saying embassies abroad. I am saying the Soviet
Union.
Mr. SNYDER. But why the Soviet Union and not Poland, Czechoslovakia,
Bulgaria?
Mr. DULLES. I said the Communist countries, I think, before. I
certainly would not do it for Britain, France, and friendly countries.
There is no point.
Mr. SNYDER. This would involve a clerical job of major magnitude which
from the Embassy's point of view I don't see that it would serve any
purpose.
Mr. DULLES. Well, if a young man 20 years old just out of the Marines
says he is going to the Soviet Union, isn't that of some significance?
Mr. SNYDER. Not necessarily. I mean in terms of the thousands of
people--thousands of Americans who flutter back and forth across the
face of the earth----
Mr. DULLES. I am not talking about people floating back and forth
across the earth. I am talking about people going to the Soviet Union.
Mr. SNYDER. In other words, if I had looked at Oswald's application
at the time he made it, knowing nothing else about it than he had
just gotten out of the Marines, I would not think it was so terribly
unusual, or of great interest to me that this young boy is taking a
trip to a number of western European countries, including the Soviet
Union. Nor would there be anything in such knowledge which would in any
way I think trigger any action on my part.
Mr. DULLES. Do you have any special instructions other than the ones
that you have referred to about the handling of those that renounce
their citizenship, or have you covered that, do you think, quite
fully? Are there any special instructions that the Embassy in Moscow
prescribed?
Mr. SNYDER. No.
Mr. DULLES. There are none?
Mr. SNYDER. No; there are none; no, sir. This sort of thing is down to
the meat of the consular officer's job. That is, he is out on his own
pretty much on something of this sort. He has got to use his judgment,
and such experience as he has, and such commonsense as he has.
Mr. DULLES. He has got to know the law, too--he has to know the law and
regulations.
Mr. SNYDER. Oh, yes; if you don't know, the first thing you do is look
up the regulation and the law and see what your basic requirement is.
In renunciation cases, it is a fairly simple matter--that is, for the
consular officer, as far as the law is concerned. He doesn't have a
large body of law. He has a specific law which tells him exactly what
the conditions are for renouncing citizenship, and that is it.
Mr. DULLES. I differ from you a little bit, in the sense that I don't
think if a young fellow 20 years old came in to me and wanted to
renounce his citizenship, and if I were doing consular work, as I was
at one time--I think I would feel that that was a pretty--rather a
tough one to handle.
Mr. SNYDER. I don't say it is not tough to handle. What I meant to say
was that the legal basis under which the consul, or within which the
consul has to operate----
Mr. DULLES. I will talk to Mr. Chayes about the problem of a minor
doing that.
Mr. SNYDER. From the consular's point of view it is a fairly simple
one. It doesn't require a lot of legal research.
Mr. CHAYES. Just to have that in the record at this point the statute
provides very clearly on the age problem, section 351(b) of the act
provides that below 18 years the act specified--the citizen shall not
be deemed to have expatriated himself by the commission prior to his
18th birthday of any of the acts specified in paragraphs 2, 3, 4, 5,
and 6.
Mr. DULLES. That includes renunciation?
Mr. CHAYES. Yes, 6 is renunciation. But he has to assert--within 6
months after obtaining the age of 18 years--he has to assert his claim
to U.S. nationality, in order to get this automatically. But I would
think the courts would go further and hold that, especially where
volunteerism is involved, as in renunciation, below 18 years is the
cutoff point--not 21. It used to be 21, but the Congress reduced the
age limit to 18.
Mr. DULLES. Well, that covers the point here. Was there anything about
the Oswald case in the Soviet press at any time to your knowledge?
Mr. SNYDER. To my knowledge, there was not, Mr. Dulles.
Mr. DULLES. And the Soviet authorities have given you no information
about Oswald that hasn't been communicated to us? You have no other
information at all from the Soviet authorities about Oswald?
Mr. SNYDER. No, sir; I never communicated with the Soviet authorities
about Oswald in any form, nor did they ever ask me anything about him.
Mr. DULLES. And you don't know any of the other circumstances under
which his case was reconsidered after his attempted cutting of his
wrists and suicide? You don't know what channels that went through in
the Soviet Union?
Mr. SNYDER. I was not aware of this element of the case.
Mr. DULLES. You were not aware, of course, at that time of this element
of the case. Do you know what intourist guides were in charge of him?
Mr. SNYDER. No.
Mr. DULLES. Do you know any other case during the period when you were
in Moscow of an American who had married a Soviet wife and was given
an exist visa as quickly and as easily as Oswald and Marina were given
theirs?
Mr. SNYDER. I don't know offhand whether Marina Oswald got her visa,
her exit visa, that quickly and easily.
Mr. DULLES. Well, I think that is a matter of record--when she applied
and when she got it.