He said, "One time he told me that." He also said at one time he told
him otherwise but he corroborated that portion of it. Then it seemed
like there was something else said. Archer said to him as he got up in
the jail, "I believe he is going to die, Jack." I may be getting these
wrong, but they are roughly--he said something about, "You fellows
couldn't do it," or talking about the police, and, I believe that was
Archer and McMillon.
Maybe you all being lawyers, in Texas this is not admissible unless
it is part of the res gestae. Mr. Belli sent into McMillon all
conversations in the jail that happened 4 hours later.
Under our law if one side goes into a conversation we can bring out
anything in the conversation, the rest of the conversation. That is a
rule of law in Texas, I don't know whether it is that way everywhere
else, and so that was the theory that made Dean's testimony admissible
because had been in the jail--time varies from 20 minutes to an hour,
depending on who you are listening to.
Senator COOPER. I have to go to a quorum call.
(At this point, Senator Cooper left the hearing room.)
Mr. RANKIN. Mr. Wade, could you tell us a little more clearly what was
involved in regard to this testimony? Did the defense start introducing
testimony concerning these conversations, is that what you are telling
us?
Mr. WADE. The defense cross-examined McMillon--you see McMillon and
Archer stayed with Ruby until 4 o'clock that afternoon when he was
turned over to Captain Fritz or roughly. I am giving a rough hour of 4
o'clock.
Mr. RANKIN. Where did they stay with him?
Mr. WADE. In the jail. They were--I don't say both of them were there
but they were assigned there and another person. The three of them or
two of them were there at all times, along with your jailers, they were
inside the jail.
During this time he went into conversations, for instance he said,
"Didn't I tell you that he left his dog out in the car?" He said, "Yes,
they did," but this is something that happened an hour and a half after
they had been in jail.
Mr. RANKIN. By "he" there you mean Ruby?
Mr. WADE. Ruby.
And they said also, "Didn't he tell you about going to the Western
Union," and he said, "Weren't you there when Sorrels and Dean came up
there, and what was the first thing that Sorrels asked him."
Mr. RANKIN. Did they say when that was?
Mr. WADE. Well, you are going to find your time varies from 20 minutes
to an hour, depending on whether it is a defense theory or our theory,
but----
Mr. RANKIN. After what?
Mr. WADE. After the killing of Oswald.
Mr. RANKIN. Yes.
Mr. WADE. I think Dean, I would rather you get the record, and you can
get it accurate, but I think he said it was some time before 20 minutes
to 12 or some time before 12. Well, the killing happened at 11:21, I
think. That seems to be the best time, 11:21.
Mr. RANKIN. Did they describe what the conversation was with Ruby when
Sorrels and Dean were there?
Mr. WADE. They told, if I recall, what Sorrels asked him and he asked
him "What did you do it for, Jack?" or something; they knew that part
of it but they weren't present during that conversation between--they
were in the room but I may say not within hearing distance. They heard
part of what was said but not all of the conversation.
Mr. RANKIN. By "they" who do you mean?
Mr. WADE. I am talking about McMillon and Archer.
Mr. RANKIN. What did they hear?
Mr. WADE. Well, that is all I know that was testified to. Now, whether
they heard anything else I don't know. But that is all I know, the
beginning of the conversation.
They had heard previous to this coming up there the conversation about
Jack, "I think he is going to die," and Jack answered some question, I
believe he said, "You couldn't do it, somebody had to," or something
like that. Jack Ruby, I am referring to.
Mr. RANKIN. Where did that occur?
Mr. WADE. That occurred as they arrived on the floor where the jail is,
the fifth floor, I believe, of the jail.
Mr. RANKIN. Then what else could they testify to?
Mr. WADE. That was about all we used them for, actually, that was
the last that we put on, but they asked them some questions of what
happened. Didn't he tell Captain Fritz something at 4 o'clock that
afternoon, but our testimony from them actually that amounted to
anything quit when they came on to the floor there of the jail. That is
McMillon and Archer.
Shortly thereafter, Dean's testimony came on and only--I am kind of
anticipating your questions on this.
Mr. RANKIN. Where was Dean then?