I never used anything malicious, nothing like s.o.b. I never said that
I wanted to get three more off, as they stated.
The only words, and I was highly emotional; to Ray Hall--he
interrogated more than any other person down there--all I believe I
said to him was, "I didn't want Mrs. Kennedy to come back to trial."
And I forget what else. And I used a little expression like being of
the Jewish faith, I wanted to show that we love our President, even
though we are not of the same faith.
And I have a friend of mine--do you mind if it is a slipshod story?
Chief Justice WARREN. No; you tell us in your own way.
Mr. RUBY. A fellow whom I sort of idolized is of the Catholic faith,
and a gambler. Naturally in my business you meet people of various
backgrounds.
And the thought came, we were very close, and I always thought a lot of
him, and I knew that Kennedy, being Catholic, I knew how heartbroken
he was, and even his picture--of this Mr. McWillie--flashed across me,
because I have a great fondness for him.
All that blended into the thing that, like a screwball, the way it
turned out, that I thought that I would sacrifice myself for the few
moments of saving Mrs. Kennedy the discomfiture of coming back to trial.
Now all these things of my background, I should have been the last
person in the world to want to be a martyr. It happens, doesn't it,
Chief Warren?
I mean, for instance, I have been in the night club business, a
burlesque house. It was a means of a livelihood. I knew persons of
notorious backgrounds years ago in Chicago. I was with the union
back in Chicago, and I left the union when I found out the notorious
organization had moved in there. It was in 1940.
Then recently, I had to make so many numerous calls that I am sure you
know of. Am I right? Because of trying to survive in my business.
My unfair competition had been running certain shows that we were
restricted to run by regulation of the union, but they violated all the
rules of the union, and I didn't violate it, and consequently I was
becoming insolvent because of it.
All those calls were made with only, in relation to seeing if they can
help out, with the American Guild of Variety Artists. Does that confirm
a lot of things you have heard?
Every person I have called, and sometimes you may not even know a
person intimately, you sort of tell them, well, you are stranded down
here and you want some help--if they know of any official of the
American Guild of Variety Artists to help me. Because my competitors
were putting me out of business.
I even flew to New York to see Joe Glazer, and he called Bobby Faye. He
was the national president. That didn't help. He called Barney Ross and
Joey Adams. All these phone calls were related not in anyway involved
with the underworld, because I have been away from Chicago 17 years
down in Dallas.
As a matter of fact, I even called a Mr.--hold it before I say
it--headed the American Federation of Labor--I can't think--in the
State of Texas--Miller.
Chief Justice WARREN. I don't know.
Mr. RUBY. Is there a Deutsch I. Maylor? I called a Mr. Maylor here in
Texas to see if he could help me out.
I want to set you gentlemen straight on all the telephone calls I
had. This was a long time prior to what has happened. And the only
association I had with those calls, the only questions that I inquired
about, was if they could help me with the American Guild of Variety
Artists, to see that they abolished it, because it was unfair to
professional talent, abolish them from putting on their shows in
Dallas. That is the only reason I made those calls. Where do we go from
there?
Chief Justice WARREN. Well, I will go back to the original question
that I asked you. Did you ever know Oswald?
Mr. RUBY. No; let me add--you are refreshing my mind about a few
things.
Can I ask one thing? Did you all talk to Mr. McWillie? I am sure you
have.
VOICE. Yes.
Mr. RUBY. He always wanted me to come down to Havana, Cuba; invited me
down there, and I didn't want to leave my business because I had to
watch over it.
He was a key man over the Tropicana down there. That was during our
good times. Was in harmony with our enemy of our present time.
Chief Justice WARREN. Yes?
Mr. RUBY. I refused. I couldn't make it. Finally he sent me tickets to
come down, airplane tickets.
I made the trip down there via New Orleans, and so I stayed at the
Volk's Apartments, and I was with him constantly.
And I was bored with the gambling, because I don't gamble, and there is
nothing exciting unless you can speak their language, which is Spanish,
I believe.
And that was the only environment. That was in August of 1959.
Any thought of ever being close to Havana, Cuba, I called him
frequently because he was down there, and he was the last person to
leave, if I recall, when they had to leave, when he left the casino.
As a matter of fact, on the plane, if I recall, I had an article he
sent me, and I wanted to get it published because I idolized McWillie.
He is a pretty nice boy, and I happened to be idolizing him.
When the plane left Havana and landed in the United States, some
schoolteacher remarked that the United States is not treating Castro
right. When they landed in the United States, this Mr. Louis McWillie
slugged this guy for making that comment.
So I want you to know, as far as him having any subversive thoughts,
and I wanted Tony to put it in the paper here. That is how much I
thought of Mr. McWillie. And that is my only association.
The only other association with him was, there was a gentleman here
that sells guns. He has a hardware store on Singleton Avenue.
Have I told this to you gentlemen? It is Ray's Hardware. His name is
Ray Brantley.
This was--I don't recall when he called me, but he was a little worried
of the new regime coming in, and evidently he wanted some protection.
He called me or sent me a letter that I should call Ray Brantley. He
wanted some four little Cobra guns--big shipment.
So me, I should say myself rather, feeling no harm, I didn't realize,
because he wasn't sending them to me, and I thought there was no crime,
the man wanted protection, he is earning a livelihood.
I called Ray Brantley and I said, "Ray, McWillie called me." I don't
remember if he sent me a letter or he called. He said he wants four
little Cobras, or something like that.
He said "I know Mac. I have been doing business with him for a long
time." Meaning with reference to when he was living in Texas. He did a
lot of hunting and things like that.
Chief Justice WARREN. Yes?
Mr. RUBY. That was the only relationship I had of any mention, outside
of phone calls, to Mr. McWillie, or any person from Havana, Cuba.
Chief Justice WARREN. When was that?
Mr. RUBY. Now the guns--am I correct? Did you ever go to check on it?
On Ray Brantley?
Mr. MOORE. No.
Mr. RUBY. He denies I ever called. Evidently he feels, maybe he feels
it would be illegal to send guns out of the country. I don't know if
you gentlemen know the law. I don't know the law.
Chief Justice WARREN. I don't know.
Mr. RUBY. I kept--did I tell you this, Joe, about this?
Mr. TONAHILL. Yes; you did.
Mr. RUBY. That I wanted someone to go to Ray Brantley?
Mr. TONAHILL. Yes.
Mr. RUBY. When Phil Burleson came back with a letter signed, an
affidavit that Ray Brantley said he never did receive a call from me,
and the only gun he sent to McWillie was to the Vegas, but it came back
that they didn't pick it up because it was a c.o.d. order.
This definitely would do me more harm, because if I tell my story that
I called Ray Brantley, and he denies that he ever got a call from me,
definitely that makes it look like I am hiding something.
Haven't I felt that right along, Joe?
Mr. TONAHILL. You sure have, Jack.
Mr. RUBY. Now, the reason I am telling you these things, I never knew
Lee Harvey Oswald. The first time I ever have seen him was the time in
the assembly room when they brought him out, when he had some sort of a
shiner on his eye.
Chief Justice WARREN. When was that little incident about the Cobras?
About what year? That is all I am interested in.
Mr. RUBY. Could have been prior to the early part of 1959.
Chief Justice WARREN. Yes; all right.
Mr. RUBY. That is the only call I made. And as a matter of fact, I
didn't even follow up to inquire of this Mr. Brantley, whether he
received it or what the recourse was. That is why I tell you, Chief
Justice Warren--who is this new gentleman, may I ask?
Mr. RANKIN. This is Mr. Storey from your community, a lawyer who is
working with the attorney general, and Mr. Jaworski, in connection with
watching the work of the Commission so that they will be satisfied
as to the quality of the work done insofar as the State of Texas is
concerned.
(Pause for reporter to change paper, and Ruby asked about one of the
gentlemen, to which Chief Justice Warren replied as follows):
Chief Justice WARREN (referring to Mr. Specter). He has been working
with us on the Commission since very close to the beginning now.
Mr. RANKIN. How long did you spend in Cuba on this trip?
Mr. RUBY. Eight days. A lot of your tourists were there. As a matter of
fact, a lot of group tourists were going down, students of schools.
I mean, he had a way of purchasing tickets from Havana that I think he
purchased them at a lesser price. He bought them from the travel agent
in the Capri Hotel.
He bought them--did you meet McWillie?
Mr. MOORE. I didn't.
Mr. RANKIN. He was checked by the Commission in connection with this
work.
Chief Justice WARREN. There was some story in one of the papers that
you had been interested in shipping jeeps down to Cuba. Was there
anything to that at all?
Mr. RUBY. No; but this was the earlier part, when the first time Castro
had ever invaded Cuba. There was even a Government article that they
would need jeeps. I don't recall what it was, but I never had the
facilities or the capabilities of knowing where to get jeeps.
But probably in conversation with other persons--you see, it is a new
land, and they have to have a lot of things. As a matter of fact, the
U.S. Government was wanting persons to help them at that particular
time when they threw out the dictator, Batista.
And one particular time there was a gentleman that smuggled guns to
Castro. I think I told you that, Mr. Moore; I don't remember.
Mr. MOORE. I don't recall that.
Mr. RUBY. I think his name was Longley out of Bay--something--Texas, on
the Bayshore. And somehow he was, I read the article about him, that he
was given a jail term for smuggling guns to Castro. This is the early
part of their revolution.
Chief Justice WARREN. Before the Batista government fell?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; I think he had a boat, and he lived somewhere in Bay
something, Bayshore, in the center part of Texas. Do you know him, Mr.
Storey? Do you know this man?
Mr. STOREY. No; I don't know him.
Mr. RUBY. How can I prove my authenticity of what I have stated here
today?
Chief Justice WARREN. Well, you have testified under oath, and I don't
even know that there is anything to disprove what you have said.
Mr. RUBY. No; because I will say this. You don't know if there
is anything to disprove, but at this moment, there is a certain
organization in this area that has been indoctrinated, that I am the
one that was in the plot to assassinate our President.
Mr. RANKIN. Would you tell us what that is?
Mr. RUBY. The John Birch Society.
Mr. RANKIN. Can you tell us what basis you have for that, Mr. Ruby?
Mr. RUBY. Just a feeling of it. Mr. Warren, you don't recall when
I--Friday night after leaving the Times Herald, I went to my apartment
and very impatiently awakened George Senator. As a matter of fact, used
the words, as I state, "You will have to get up, George. I want you to
go with me."
And he had been in bed for a couple of hours, which was about, I
imagine, about 4:30 or a quarter to 5 in the morning.
And I called the club and I asked this kid Larry if he knew how to pack
a Polaroid, and he said "Yes."
And I said, "Get up." And we went down and picked up Larry. And in the
meantime, I don't recall if I stopped at the post office to find out
his box number of this Bernard Weissman. I think the box number was
1792, or something to that; and then there was, it came to my mind when
I left the Times Herald--I am skipping back--why I had awakened George.
I recall seeing a sign on a certain billboard "Impeach Earl Warren."
You have heard something about that?
Chief Justice WARREN. I read something in the paper, yes; that is all.
Mr. RUBY. And it came from New Bedford, or Massachusetts; I don't
recall what the town was.
And there was a similar number to that, but I thought at the time it
would be the same number of 1792, but it was 1757.
That is the reason I went down there to take the Polaroid picture of
it, because of that remaining in the city at the time.
What happened to the picture, I don't know. I asked Jim Bowie or
Alexander to tell you.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you know Weissman before that?
Mr. RUBY. Never knew him. When I said Jim Bowie, no one says a word.
Mr. BOWIE. We never have seen them.
Mr. RUBY. They were in my person.
Mr. BOWIE. But no evidence came?
Mr. RUBY. No; it did not, never. As a matter of fact, I went to the
post office to check on box 1792. I even inquired with the man in
charge of where you purchase the boxes, and I said to him, "Who bought
this box?"
And he said, "I can't give you the information. All I know is, it is a
legitimate business box purchase."
And I checked the various contents of mail there.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you know Officer Tippit?
Mr. RUBY. I knew there was three Tippits on the force. The only one
I knew used to work for the special services, and I am certain this
wasn't the Tippit, this wasn't the man.
Mr. RANKIN. The man that was murdered. There was a story that you were
seen sitting in your Carousel Club with Mr. Weissman, Officer Tippit,
and another who has been called a rich oil man, at one time shortly
before the assassination. Can you tell us anything about that?
Mr. RUBY. Who was the rich oil man?
Mr. RANKIN. Can you remember? We haven't been told. We are just trying
to find out anything that you know about him.
Mr. RUBY. I am the one that made such a big issue of Bernard Weissman's
ad. Maybe you do things to cover up, if you are capable of doing it.
As a matter of fact, Saturday afternoon we went over to the Turf Bar
lounge, and it was a whole hullabaloo, and I showed the pictures
"Impeach Earl Warren" to Bellocchio, and he saw the pictures and got
very emotional.