He said, "I will only leave the door open for 5 minutes." That was
after the conversation was finished with Henry Wade.
I got ready to leave the building and I got up to the next floor and
there was another diskjockey at KLIF, Russ Knight. He said, "Jack,
where is everything happening?" And he had a tape recorder.
And I said, "Come on downstairs", and led him downstairs. And there was
Henry Wade sitting there. And I said, "Henry, this is Russ Knight." And
I left him there with Henry Wade, and I went to my car and drove over
to KLIF, which is a block away from there.
And it was a little chilly that night, as I recall, but by bringing
Russ Knight over to Henry Wade, I delayed too long to get to KLIF, and
I had to wait 15 minutes until Russ Knight came from finishing his
interview with Henry Wade.
I had the sandwiches with me and some soda pop and various things, and
Russ Knight opened the door and we went upstairs.
(Mr. Arlen Specter, a staff counsel, entered the room.)
Chief Justice WARREN. This is another man on my staff, Mr. Specter.
Would you mind if he came in?
(Chief Justice Warren introduced the men around the room.)
Mr. RUBY. Is there any way to get me to Washington?
Chief Justice WARREN. I beg your pardon?
Mr. RUBY. Is there any way of you getting me to Washington?
Chief Justice WARREN. I don't know of any. I will be glad to talk to
your counsel about what the situation is, Mr. Ruby, when we get an
opportunity to talk.
Mr. RUBY. I don't think I will get a fair representation with my
counsel, Joe Tonahill. I don't think so. I would like to request that I
go to Washington and you take all the tests that I have to take. It is
very important.
Mr. TONAHILL. Jack, will you tell him why you don't think you will get
a fair representation?
Mr. RUBY. Because I have been over this for the longest time to get the
lie detector test. Somebody has been holding it back from me.
Chief Justice WARREN. Mr. Ruby, I might say to you that the lateness of
this thing is not due to your counsel. He wrote me, I think, close to
2 months ago and told me that you would be glad to testify and take, I
believe he said, any test. I am not sure of that, but he said you would
be glad to testify before the Commission.
And I thanked him for the letter. But we have been so busy that this is
the first time we have had an opportunity to do it.
But there has been no delay, as far as I know, on the part of Mr.
Tonahill in bringing about this meeting. It was our own delay due to
the pressures we had on us at the time.
Mr. RUBY. What State are you from, Congressman?
Representative FORD. Michigan. Grand Rapids, Mich.
Chief Justice WARREN. I will be glad to talk that over, if we can. You
might go right ahead, if you wish, with the rest of your statement.
Mr. RUBY. All right. I remained at KLIF from that moment on, from the
time I got into the building, with Russ Knight. We talked about various
things. I brought out the thought of this ad that Bernard Weissman had
placed in the newspaper, and I also told Russ the one I admired by
Gordon McLendon.
He came out with an editorial about the incident with Adlai Stevenson
and all those things. He is one person that will immediately go to bat
if anything is wrong. He will clarify it.
And I told Russ Knight there were some other things that were occurring
at the time. So I remained there until about 2 a.m., and we all partook
of the sandwiches and had a feast there.
And they spliced the various comments they got back and forth of Henry
Wade, of Russ Knight's copy--of Russ Knight's items of Henry Wade.
Chief Justice WARREN. Mr. Ruby, this is the young man, Mr. Specter. He
is a member of our staff, and he comes from Philadelphia.
(Ruby shakes hands with Mr. Specter.)
Mr. RUBY. I am at a disadvantage, gentlemen, telling my story.
Chief Justice WARREN. You were right at the point where you had it
about 2 o'clock in the morning, and you had had your feast, as you
mentioned, and had talked to these men, and so forth. That was the last
that you had told us.
Mr. RUBY. Well, lots of things occurred up to that. They talked pro and
con about the tragedy.
At 2 a.m., I left the building. I drove--I was going to go toward the
Times Herald Building, because as a result--I very rarely go there for
my weekend ad, because once I get the ad into the Morning News, which
is the earlier issue, all I have to do is call the newspaper and they
transpire the same ad that I had into the newspaper--into the Morning
News.
And I promised one of the boys working in the Times Herald Building
there--I was in the act, in the business of a twist-board deal I was
promoting as a sales item by advertisement and mail order, and I had
been evading him, or didn't have time to go out there because it was
very late when I left the club, and I didn't want to stop, but because
this was an early morning, I thought this would be the right time to go
over there, plus the fact of changing my ad I had in the Morning News
to the closing of 3 days, that I would go over there and maybe add a
little more effectiveness to it in the way I wanted the ad placed.
As I was driving toward the Times Herald with the intention of doing
these things, I heard someone honk a horn very loudly, and I stopped.
There was a police officer sitting in a car. He was sitting with this
young lady that works in my club, Kathy Kay, and they were very much
carried away.
And I was carried away; and he had a few beers, and it is so bad, about
those places open, and I was a great guy to close; and I remained with
them--did I tell you this part of it?
Mr. MOORE. I don't recall this part; no.
Mr. RUBY. I didn't tell you this part because at the time I thought a
lot of Harry Carlson as a police officer, and either it slipped my mind
in telling this, or it was more or less a reason for leaving it out,
because I felt I didn't want to involve them in anything, because it
was supposed to be a secret that he was going with this young lady. He
had marital problems.
I don't know if that is why I didn't tell you that. Anyway, I did leave
it out. His name is Harry Carlson. Her name is Kathy Kay.
And they talked and they carried on, and they thought I was the
greatest guy in the world, and he stated they should cut this guy inch
by inch into ribbons, and so on.
And she said, "Well, if he was in England, they would drag him through
the streets and would have hung him." I forget what she said.
I left them after a long delay. They kept me from leaving. They were
constantly talking and were in a pretty dramatic mood. They were crying
and carrying on.
I went to the building of the Times Herald. I went to the Times
Herald--may I read that, Joe? May I please?
(Joe Tonahill hands paper to Jack Ruby.)
Mr. TONAHILL. Sam ever get your glasses?
Mr. RUBY. Not yet. [Reading.] "This is the girl that"--what?--"that
started Jack off." What is this other word?
Mr. TONAHILL. Culminated?
Mr. RUBY. That is untrue. That is what I wanted to read. (Throwing pad
on table.)
Gentlemen, unless you get me to Washington, you can't get a fair shake
out of me.
If you understand my way of talking, you have got to bring me to
Washington to get the tests.
Do I sound dramatic? Off the beam?
Chief Justice WARREN. No; you are speaking very, very rationally,
and I am really surprised that you can remember as much as you have
remembered up to the present time.
You have given it to us in detail.
Mr. RUBY. Unless you can get me to Washington, and I am not a crackpot,
I have all my senses--I don't want to evade any crime I am guilty of.
But Mr. Moore, have I spoken this way when we have talked?
Mr. MOORE. Yes.
Mr. RUBY. Unless you get me to Washington immediately, I am afraid
after what Mr. Tonahill has written there, which is unfair to me
regarding my testimony here--you all want to hear what he wrote?
Chief Justice WARREN. Yes; you might read it. If you need glasses
again, try mine this time (handing glasses to Mr. Ruby).